Talk:Linux

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Former good articleLinux was one of the Engineering and technology good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 19, 2005Featured article candidateNot promoted
July 21, 2005Peer reviewReviewed
December 14, 2005Featured article candidateNot promoted
October 23, 2006Good article nomineeNot listed
March 14, 2007Peer reviewReviewed
July 12, 2007Good article nomineeListed
May 29, 2008Peer reviewReviewed
December 7, 2010Good article reassessmentDelisted
Current status: Delisted good article

Linux Text-to-speech (TTS)[edit]

See here: https://lwn.net/Articles/655914/

I wander, does this "suckyness" also apply to Android? I admit, I just haven't checked.. and while TTS is only an "application" (or the reverse, speech-to-text), I assumed it was fairly good now in Android, but that would be proprietary Google Now (and Siri, Cortana for others). E.g. are these technologies good in Android, but only in a proprietary form, but what about those included in free software AOSP, that may or may not still be used. And if they are good (or not..), can they be used in "regular" Linux? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Comp.arch (talkcontribs)

Android is a regular Linux, and TTS have nothing to do with the kernel. It is done by library. Android have different implementations, but according on fast checking from sources, they used SVOX pico as a default TTS engine. You can use pico even on windows, it is written mostly in C. Does this tread belongs here? Looks like it have nothing to do with actual article, but a nice demonstration of wrong naming, when people are mixing kernel and the OS. Stealps (talk) 20:59, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Linux and GNU/Linux[edit]

I still do not understand why you are using Linux as the name of the article devoted to the full operating system instead of GNU+Linux. Following the same pattern the macOS article should be called XNU. Source: OSX Internals. Image of macOS stack. GNU is the equivalent to Darwin libraries and syscalls while Linux is the equivalent to Mach (kernel) plus BSD kernel parts, that is, Linux is equivalent to XNU. It would be more logical to have this article talking about Linux and then an article for each operating system using Linux as its kernel. For instance, Android already exists. The Linux page would serve as pointers to the rest of pages. This article creates confusion and forgets an historical fact: the fork of the GNU C library. Only during three years calling Linux the whole operating system made sense.History of glibc and Linux libc (it is a blog post with references). Using the most common result in Google does not make sense. Additionally it is an ad populum fallacy. Filiprino (talk) 23:22, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up, but we have been over this dozens of times in the past decade and by longstanding consensus operating systems that use the Linux kernel are called "Linux" on Wikipedia, as per WP:COMMONNAME and also MOS:LINUX. "GNU/Linux" is considered a minority POV term used by the FSF and its supporters; GNU+Linux is hardly used by anyone, so there is little in the way of WP:RS for that. To get the full background you should read all the archives of this talk page, to get the history of the problem as well as Talk:Linux/Name as this is where past consensuses have been formed. You will also want to read GNU/Linux naming controversy and its talk page as background as well. - Ahunt (talk)
I already know that argument, but I have clearly stated that the current consensus is biased and plainly wrong. I have brought up facts stating that the current definition of Linux is wrong, because it is not coherent with the class of kernels it belongs to. And of course, GNU/Linux is misrepresented in the English Wikipedia (please, do not generalize to Wikipedia). And don't make me start with ad hominem falacies, please. This article does not respect the definition of a Unix-like operating system. It extends the name of the kernel to the rest of the operating system, something which does not make sense, as I already stated (read bibliography and history). This article makes Wikipedia a low quality source of information. Additionally, talking about a controversy is unjustified and makes things more complicated by impregnating with negative connotations the FSF and other people stances with respect to the usage of the term GNU-Linux and Linux. I do not care about GNU{/,-,+,*,:}Linux (pick your symbol). I care about misrepresentation and misinformation. Where could I get this consensus changed? Scientific proof refutes this article name and most of its contents. Thanks. Filiprino (talk) 19:31, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
You get the consensus changed right here, but you are going to have to come up with some more convincing arguments than you have done so far. We work on the "common name" for a subject (not the the largest Google Search result or even the official or "correct name", but the common name in use in society in general), so saying that the common name is imprecise or wrong, or inconsistent with Mac or Unix is not going to prevail. You need to show that the common name is actually something else. - Ahunt (talk) 20:23, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
but you are going to have to come up with some more convincing arguments than you have done so far
Like what? I mean, all relevant sources from the IEEE and ACM have the consensus of using GNU-Linux, not Linux, because Linux is a kernel, not an OS. So you should explain better what you mean, because WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CRITERIA state things like being precise, concise and consistent. Moreover, recognizability is not fulfilled because people familiar with the subject know that Linux is a kernel not an OS and the article keeps talking about an OS. If you want to read on the kernel you have to visit Linux kernel, which is absurd because Linux is a kernel. Naturalness can not be determined with tools like Google Trends because you have to do a semantic analysis of the results obtained to decide whether searches for GNU-Linux are done using the term "Linux". At least 3 out of 5 goals WP:CRITERIA are not fulfilled, unless the article contents are changed to talk about Linux, not GNU-Linux. As you can see, I am not advocating changing the title to GNU is Not Unix plus Linux, something which blatantly goes against WP:CRITERIA and WP:COMMONNAME. Filiprino (talk) 13:08, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
WP:COMMONNAME simply requires that we use the name that is commonly used; not the technically-correct name or the politically-correct name or the name advocated by any group or person, but the name in common everyday usage. If you go through all the archives as I linked above, you will see we have been around that one many times. In common use the name that describes all Linux-kernel-base operating systems is "Linux", which is why the article is located at the name. Unless you have any new evidence that the name in common use has changed then I think we are done here. - Ahunt (talk) 14:24, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
Notice that I have not mentioned any technically-correct name nor politically-correct name. I have mentioned the naming conventions. You are bypassing all the goals explicited in WP:CRITERIA and WP:COMMONNAME. If I go back to the archives I will see you stating always the same imposing your own criteria. You are the only user that comes back again and again to impose his criteria without attending further reasons. Linux is used for the kernel and GNU-Linux is used for the operating system. You can not say otherwise because you do not have any source for stating that. Your personal opinion means nothing, but bypassing Wikipedia policies goes against Wikipedia policies.
This is false: The Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to refer to the operating system family, as well as specific distributions, to emphasize that most Linux distributions are not just the Linux kernel. Not only the FSF but many others call the OS correctly.
This is false: The defining component of a Linux distribution is the Linux kernel. A Linux distribution does not exist as a software package. What does exist are GNU-Linux distributions, or Android distributions or µlibc-Linux distributions.
Are we talking about a kernel or an operating system? Linux was originally developed for personal computers based on the Intel x86 architecture,
Are we talking about a kernel or an operating system? Because of the dominance of the Linux kernel-based Android OS on smartphones, Linux has the largest installed base of all general-purpose operating systems.
Are we talking about a kernel or an operating system? Linux is also the leading operating system on servers and other big iron systems such as mainframe computers, and the only OS used on TOP500 supercomputers (since November 2017, having before gradually eliminated all competitors)
Are we talking about a kernel or an operating system? It is used by around 2.3% of desktop computers.[21][22] The Chromebook, which runs the Linux kernel-based Chrome OS
Are we talking about a kernel or an operating system? Linux also runs on embedded systems—devices whose operating system is typically built into the firmware and is highly tailored to the system.
Are we talking about a kernel or an operating system? The development of Linux is one of the most prominent examples of free and open-source software collaboration. Filiprino (talk) 14:56, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
Are we talking about a kernel or an operating system? In 1991, while attending the University of Helsinki, Torvalds became curious about operating systems.[39] Frustrated by the licensing of MINIX, which at the time limited it to educational use only,[38] he began to work on his own operating system kernel, which eventually became the Linux kernel.
And I could continue with the whole article. This article mixes a lot of different operating systems in a single bag. The fact is that the different operating systems are incompatible between them, yet this article treats them as all being equal. For instance, supercomputers run GNU-Linux and phones run Android. Embedded systems run propietario OSes or FOSS ones like OpenWRT which is not GNU-Linux nor Android. This article talks about Linux, Android and GNU-Linux without any distinction, when there is a difference. Each OS must have his own page and this article should be devoted to Linux, not Linux, Android, GNU-Linux, OpenWRT and others. Filiprino (talk) 14:56, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
Okay you have put down your position here. This talk page has lots of editors watching it, so let's see if anyone else agrees with you. - Ahunt (talk) 15:03, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
As a compromise might I recommend a comment in the lead such as "Linux is the common name given to GNU/Linux although <description of why there is technically a distinction>". Or if not that a section say "Use of the name Linux"Ethanpet113 (talk) 02:39, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
I would like to contribute my stance. I've waited a long time to see if things will change, but I can't stand this anymore. Wikipedia's current concensus is to refer to the family of operating systems that use Linux as "Linux", not "GNU/Linux", therefore a comment like "Linux is the common name given to GNU/Linux" is inappropriate. If that is Wikipedia's concensus, I find it acceptable to refer to the OS family as simply "Linux". But what I don't accept is that the same should apply to the title of the article. What I'm saying here is that the name of the article should be, most of all, correct. Leaving aside the naming controversy, the article about the family of OSes should be titled "Linux (operating systems)" (pay attention to the plural form of the word "systems"), and the article about Linux itself (which, without stretching the meaning of the word to refer to anything else other than the technically correct meaning, refers to the Unix-like kernel) should be titled "Linux" or "Linux (kernel)". The articles should have a note in the lead section saying that technically the term refers to the kernel, but as of current concensus of Wikipedia editors, it is used to refer to the OS family (and also mentioning the fact that the correct name for the Linux kernel is "Linux" and not "Linux kernel", just as Linus Torvalds named it). Both of the articles should continue to use the terms "Linux" and "Linux kernel" to refer to the OS family and to the kernel, respectively, through the rest of the articles. In a nutshell: This has nothing to do with the content of the articles, but with their titles. There are various reasons why an article shouldn't be titled correctly but actually use a more popular name, but in this case, especially considering the naming controversy, it is much, much more important to title articles correctly. The issues User:Filiprino described on May 8, 2018, 14:56 UTC are another thing - leaving aside the naming controversy, Wikipedia articles must be unambiguous. --85.64.33.163 (talk) 18:23, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
Agree with Filiprino, there are many operation systems that using Linux, calling only some of them the same name as kernel not just unfair or historically wrong, but misleading and tricky in any technical discussion around Linux topic. There are historical reasons why some people started to call all different distributions with the kernel name and can ignore absolute minority of non-GNU/Linux operation systems. I think it doesn't make sense to discuss it now. Now the most widely used OS with Linux kernel is Android. Cisco routers powered by NXOS is running on Linux (the kernel), project Nerves honestly states that it is allowing to ship your app in cross compiles Linux, while it's not GNU/Linux they are shipping. Calling Ubuntu, but not Andoid as Linux is just misleading, confusing for people, who are trying to research the topic. Linux is a kernel and a few tools in userspace, but not the operation system. I think the best solution in current situation is a generic page similar to Field for example. Linux page should ask what did you actually mean - Linux kernel, GNU/Linux operation system, or probably Linux Foundation. Stealps (talk) 20:35, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
No due to WP:COMMONNAME. GNU/Linux is not the common name for anything, so you can't shoehorn it in the back door with that argument, to mix a metaphor. - Ahunt (talk) 18:56, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Purpose of trademark[edit]

The text currently reads

Torvalds has stated that he trademarked the name only to prevent someone else from using it.

IANAL, but it seems to me that that is generally the purpose of a trademark, to prevent someone else from using it; there's no use in pointing this out. Shouldn't this read "to prevent someone else from trademarking it"? Unfortunately it is unsourced, otherwise I could have simply checked the source. Digital Brains (talk) 19:49, 14 May 2019 (UTC)