Talk:List of Brigade of Gurkhas recipients of the Victoria Cross

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Date Process Result
December 29, 2009 Peer review Reviewed
December 29, 2009 Featured list candidate Promoted
Current status: Featured list

New article[edit]

I've created this article because I couldn't find a list of Gurkha VC winners on Wikipedia. Most of these names appear on other lists, but I felt it would add something if there was a more narrowly focused list for Gurkhas. In making the list I used the same table format that was on other lists and the same image - I trust that this is ok. If not, please let me know and I will try to rectify. Cheers. AustralianRupert (talk) 05:39, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Nice work! AshLin (talk) 03:17, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Clerical error[edit]

It appears there was a clerical error in the war despatches about the two VC winners from the 4GR - Rifleman Kulbir Thapa and Rifleman Karanbahadur Rana, both of 3rd/4th. Their unit was mistakenly shown as 4th/3rd, a battalion not in existence at that point of time. References to this can be found on both 3GR and 4GR sites mentioned below:

Accordingly I have corrected the text. AshLin (talk) 03:17, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Reply

Hi, AshLin, has this been clarified yet? We had this issue on the 4th Gurkha Rifles page a while ago and I seem to remember that you were going to try to contact the regiment in question and clarify. Have you received a reply yet?
As I stated at the time, I do not believe that the two websites that you have quoted are more authorative than the Parker reference, or indeed the British Army website or the London Gazette, which all (except the London Gazette for Karanbahdur Rana, for whom they do not mention a unit) state that these two men served with the 3rd Gurkhas. I will include these sources so that others may see all of the evidence.
  • http://www.army.mod.uk/gurkhas/7561.aspx — agrees with Parker that both of these men were 3rd Gurkhas, not 4th Gurkhas. It also provides the dates of the London Gazette citations. 15 November 1915 for Kulbir Thapa and 21 June 1918 for Karanbahadur Rana.
  • the London Gazette definately confirms that Kulbir Thapa was 3rd Gurkhas, not 4th Gurkhas. Kulbir Thapa was 2nd Battalion, 3rd Gurkhas — see London Gazette citation — [1]. Karanbahadur Rana — see London Gazette citation — [2]. Whilst the London Gazette does not specify Karanbahadur's unit, I believe that he was also 2nd Battalion, 3rd Gurkhas. That is what is included on his Wikipedia entry, at Find a Grave, and indeed on one of the pages you cite as evidence to the contrary above (http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/3rd_Queen_Alexandras_Own_Gurkha_Rifles/id/1901165). This last website puzzles me, it relates to the 3rd Gurkhas and even states that Karanbahadur Rana served with the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Gurkhas but you keep citing it as evidence that he served with the 4th Gurkhas. I believe you are not reading the page correctly.
Direct quote from the page you are citing: "On 10 April 1918 at El Kefr in Egypt, Karanbahadur Rana of the 2nd Battalion became the regiment's second VC recipient afterr distingishuing himself in an encounter with Ottoman forces, and was the last VC recipient of the regiment." (That is 2nd Battalion of the 3rd Gurkhas, not 3rd Battalion of the 4th Gurkhas).
A further point about this site is that it is adapted from Wikipedia anyway (see the bottom of the page), so as such you are using Wikipedia, thus it is not an independently verified source. The London Gazette, John Parker's book and the British Army website which all contradict what you are saying are independent of Wikipedia.
Certainly there was clerical error in terms of the creation of a 4th Battalion for the 3rd Gurkha Rifles, rather than a 3rd Battalion for the 4th Gurkhas, but I have not seen anywhere (apart from where you say it) that there was clerical error as to the battaltions in which these two VC recipients served.
Given this, I must respectfully disagree with what you are saying and I invite others to discuss the matter here. I will not change the information, however, I believe that a concensus needs to be reached on this matter and that whatever concensus decides should be how the matter is treated. AustralianRupert (talk) 23:10, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
As regards enquiring, the erstwhile Gorkha Brigade in India has fragmented itself into individual rifle regiments and there is now no single point of reference to ask. The regiments in question don't have a web site and except for 8th GR, my enquiries have led me to believe that there is no worthwhile effort at present to preserve/record the military history either. The situation is complicated by the fact that the training centres service more than one regiment and the grouping is done keeping in mind caste composition only. In view of this, I revert my stand. The online evidence which you have carefully sifted through does seem to point to 3 GR and nothing corroborates the 4th GR point of view. I am now thinking I was hasty in this matter and misinterpreted the situation. Would you mind reverting my edits as part of your article development? AshLin (talk) 10:48, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh yes, exemplary maturity on your part! AshLin (talk) 11:14, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
No worries, mate. I will make the changes. Thank you for your work, by the way. You obviously care about the subject, which is great to see. If only everyone on wikipedia cared as much we would have a much better encyclopedia. AustralianRupert (talk) 01:10, 1 May 2009 (UTC)