Talk:List of Cathay Dragon destinations

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Former featured listList of Cathay Dragon destinations is a former featured list. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page and why it was removed. If it has improved again to featured list standard, you may renominate the article to become a featured list.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
April 6, 2010Featured list candidatePromoted
October 24, 2015Articles for deletionKept
October 4, 2022Featured list removal candidateDemoted
Current status: Former featured list

Dragonair's charter operations[edit]

I would like an opinion on whether to list Dragonair's charter operation in this list. The reason is Dragonair initially started off with a charter operations in 1985 due to its fight with Cathay Pacific for traffic rights. According to this, it is not until 1990 that they gained 'scheduled service rights', hence, if I don't include it, I feel it misses 5 years of the company operational history. As the charter operations formed such an important part of this airline's history, I believe any major (not one off) charters should be included in this list.
Invitiations sent to Arsenikk, MilborneOne, The Rambling Man and WhisperToMe to comment, all others are welcome to comment as well. --Aviator006 (talk) 09:49, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps I am colored by "the way it has always been done", but I see two main problems of including chartered destinations:
  • Scheduled services are clearly definable, because there is no doubt as to what has been a scheduled or not service.
  • Charter services may be difficult or possibly impossible to document. Also, charter services vary from ad-hoc, one-time trips to regular services (operating almost as scheduled services). What are then going to be the inclusion criteria, how are these objective (compared to other criteria), and how can it be firmly established that other services have not been provided?
If you can overcome these two problems, then you may add charter destination. When doing the Braathens list (which has a similar history to Dragonair, just 40 years earlier and in a different part of the world), I quickly concluded that point two would be impossible to document, while point one can easily be in non-conformity of WP:NOT. But it is all based on the quality of the sources you use. Arsenikk (talk) 19:52, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Although it may not fit into a table format it could still have a narrative on charter operations with a reliable reference. Something like Dragonair operated charters for various tour operators to the Foo islands from Hong Kong between 1990 and 1999 or Dragonair operated ship charter flight from Japan to Vancouver in the 1980s, sorry examples made up but just to show they could be added as narrative. MilborneOne (talk) 20:11, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Table format listing and amalgamating present and past destinations isn't allowed, then why has it been accepted here?inspector 09:42, 22 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Inspector123 (talk • contribs)
Past destinations has always been allowed on Airline destination lists, just not the Airport articles. Furthermore, This Discussion and List of Braathens destinations, which made WP:FL status, set this precedent. Discussion is still ongoing at the first link if you wish to put your input there. Sb617 (Talk) 10:22, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I believe the regular charter service can be included as it is operated like a scheduled service for all intended purpose. This is similar to Tokyo International Airport which currently operates regular charter service to Hong Kong, Seoul, Shanghai and Beijing out of its international terminal. Aviator006 (talk) 02:51, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
As long as you define "regular charter" in the prose, and make sure the list is complete, then it should be fine. On a second thought, part of the problem with "any charter" is that almost all airlines have the weirdest charters, one-time trips here and there which there is no published records of. The only "documentation" is an image of the aircraft at some airport it never usually served. Arsenikk (talk) 10:24, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Conclusion: Regular charter included together with its definition and citation. Aviator006 (talk) 09:15, 4 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unecessary photos squishing the table should be removed, a squished table dosent make sense, it should aesthetically pleasing

.inspector (talk) 10:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Article name[edit]

I notice that this article has suddenly been moved from 'List of Dragonair destinations' to 'Dragonair destinations'. This is a featured list, and must comply with all aspects of MOS and naming conventions, including WP:LISTNAME. The article name was moved prior to the FL nomination by Aviator006 as stated to comply with the FL criteria, as the issues had been raised at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Braathens destinations/archive1, which specifically states that an airline destinations list is to be located at 'List of'. Please do not make these sorts of moves unanimously, particuarly with featured content. Arsenikk (talk) 19:41, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

After your revert, this is now the only remaining airline destination article that has the prefix "List of". Besides the Braathens one (which is a defunct airline, so I didn't get around to moving that one).jasepl (talk) 19:52, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Which happen to be the only two that are featured lists. According to WP:LISTNAME, all the other articles should be moved to 'List of...'. Consensus was reached as FLC that 'List of..." is the correct name for such articles, and the correct procedure is to move all the other destination lists to where they should be. Arsenikk (talk) 21:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay fine. But the Dragonair article does not say it is featured, so how is anyone supposed to know. And does it really make any sense to keep two out of hundreds of similar articles follow one naming convention, whilst all of the others have long dropped the prefix? Will a minor change towards consistency so adversely impact the precious featured-ness? jasepl (talk) 03:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The small star on the top right corner of the article indicates a article or list is featured. Besides, in my opinion all the articles should be moved to the "List of" per WP:LISTNAME, as official policy does trump over project guidelines for the most part. Sb617 (Talk) 03:43, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think both has a valid point, one would like uniformity in a project level, while the other follows the global level of List management. In this case, I agree with both Arsenikk and Sb617 that the WP:LISTNAME global guideline should be followed. The question is not 'does it really make any sense to keep two out of hundreds of similar articles follow one naming convention', the question is why the hundreds of Destinations articles does not comply with WP:LISTNAME. Aviator006 (talk) 13:11, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely, but that's a whole other discussion! What I do remember, is that all of the articles did start with "List of... ". Then, at some point (based on some rule or guideline that I honestly can't recall) all were changed, and the prefix dropped. That left us with Braathens and Dragonair. And here we are.
I personally do not care which of the two is followed. Or even if some other convention becomes the gold standard. But I do thing consistency must be maintained. jasepl (talk) 15:27, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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citations needed[edit]

The lead section of this list-article states that these were the flights that were being operated as of October 2020. However, none of the references used to support the routes in the list were even published by this date and most are from years before that. The list is therefore effectively unreferenced for the data it purports to display. FOARP (talk) 18:26, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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