Talk:List of Fairy Tail episodes (season 4)
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Proper Japanese to Proper English yields, Grandeeney (グランディーネ Gurandīne) and Earth Land (アースランド Āsu Rando).
Other terms such as the use of Japanese word "Mage" (魔導士 Madōshi) is better suited since direct translation is "Mage."). The official English dub of the anime uses "wizard" however this is in keeping with the fact that English audiences better understand this term. However since this article is about its root Japanese counterpart it should be reflected.
As all of the above are in keeping with the rules set out Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Anime- and manga-related articles which eludes mention of episodic summary articles. However it does claim "Although difficult to acquire, criticism and reactions from non-English sources (especially original Japanese responses!) are strongly desired."
KirtZJ 03:24, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
- A relevant discussion about using character names took place at Talk:List of Fairy Tail characters#Manga names. However, Wikia is not really considered a reliable source. WP:MOS-ANIME states that "Characters should be identified by the names used in the official English releases of the series. If there are multiple English releases, such as both a manga and anime, use the one that is best known and that has contributed most to the work's becoming known in the English-speaking world (usually the primary work)." For that case, we use the manga spellings. The term "wizard" is used in place of "mage" in the official English adaptations of the manga and anime as well. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:34, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
- I yield, simply because you have not presented sound evidence to back up that the Wikia is indeed unreliable as you claim. But I believe my arguments are sound. The quote you mentioned applies to Character articles, as I have pointed out it arguably makes no mention of episodic summaries. If I would appreciate of you can provide sound evidence for your claims even though I have already yielded. That "Discussion" wasn't an actual debate to begin with because you had not clearly defined what was actually being put out...
- I only seek that the correct English Translation are used. Also I have already stated that Mage should be used since this article is NOT about an English anime...
- KirtZJ 03:41, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
- As said here, Wikia is not the commercial counterpart to Wikipedia or the Wikimedia Foundation and cannot be used as a reliable source, period. The anime is already licensed by Funimation and most likely, it will get licensed, so for now, we should use the Kodansha spellings. Also, another discussion prior to the one I had before was at Talk:List_of_Fairy_Tail_characters/Archive_3#Name_preferences. The term "Wizard" should be used also per WP:COMMONNAME. I am bringing this up on WP:ANIME so more users would get involved. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:52, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
- Being licensed by Funimation has nothing to do with Proper Translations, again you are being unbearably vague. Wikia may not be a part of the Wikipedia foundation but that does not refute that the information available there is wrong. However, even if the "Kodansha" spellings are used, it does not mean nothing to you that they are mistranslations either? Isn't the goal of Wikipedia to provide the most accurate information available? Which would also mean the correct translations of words brought across from foreign languages? For the sake of Wikipedia's integrity the correct Translations should be used, regardless of disparities amongst various sources..
- KirtZJ 04:01, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
I'm putting an arbitrary break to avoid getting lost in the indentations. Standard naming convention on Wikipedia suggests that the most common translation will be used. However, given that this is an industry that is also dealing with issues of piracy and popularization of works through fan translations, it is the belief of WikiProject Anime and manga that the most common official (read "licensed") translation should be used (if such licensed material is available). The question then is what happens when there are conflicting licensed translations when different media of the same work are translated by different companies. Standard convention still stands where the most common licensed translation is used because official releases have staying power while various versions of fan releases fade into obscurity. Discrepancies among different licensed versions can easily be resolved through explanation in prose. (In my personal belief, there is no "correct" or "proper" translation unless it is the will of the author him/herself.) —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 04:32, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
- I removed the horizontal rule and fixed the bizarre formatting introduced by KirtZJ. As for the arguments, if there are official romanizations, those will generally be the most common, and therefore the romanizations we should use. Whether you (KirtZJ) think think they the "correct" translations is irrelevant. Anyone who does translation can tell you there are almost always multiple "correct" translations and/or romanizations. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 05:39, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
- It's "wizard" per the Translation Notes in the Del Rey / Kodansha volumes which is what the List of Fairy Tail characters is going by. Check the early volumes where the translator discusses how this is different from the western Wizards. If you want to insert "Mage" as a literal translation, you can, but be sure to back it up with an official source. Now if Funimation uses mage instead of wizard, then you can argue for that term in the anime summaries. AngusWOOF (talk) 05:09, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
- Hmm, this is the first time I have encountered such a topic related to Japanese media and their English translation counterparts. Know that my intentions are purely for the sake of accuracy within Wikipedia and not my personal feelings/beliefs Nihonjoe. As an Admin surely you can understand that. Quoting your words, "Anyone who does translation can tell you there are almost always multiple "correct" translations and/or romanizations." I have noticed this in other languages as well and this leads to a greater matter of what translation actually infers. Anything from variations in what one person hears (when listening to spoken word) to what they think it means with respect to another translation by another person utilizing the same method of human cognitive process. Such take place across the board from unofficial fans to "official" companies such as Del Rey / Kodansha. Therefore translations possess multiple variations across various sources, quite possibly due to the fact that such sources aim to be unique in their work. I do not however read the Fairy Tail manga which was sourced in this debate, but since it is the accepted format for actual "officially" published material I will comply. But again, make note of what I stated about the translation process. I have no doubt that this will be an ongoing debate as it will show up again in time by another user either Wikipedia on or some other internet website. Once again, my attitude in this matter was and is for the sole purpose of Wikipedia's integrity as a legitimate source of accurate information and nothing else. If personal beliefs were even inferred by some this was absolutely not my intention. KirtZJ 10:19, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
- You are correct in that different people will translate differently, and I have no doubt that some linguists can probably act as better translators than most professional ones. However, with the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability through reputable sources, these sources are generally licensed English media. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 12:50, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
- I'll add that there are plenty of spelling variants within the official sources of manga and anime spellings for the Fairy Tail characters, especially with Raijin/Thunder God Tribe, Loxar vs. Lockser, Freed vs. Fried, Grandeeney vs. Grandine, and the translator himself has not been consistent in the process so this is hopefully documented properly. I have listed both spellings where this happens. AngusWOOF (talk) 15:55, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Translation Notes, General Notes, Wizard
Okay, here are the Translation Notes from the Fairy Tail Volume 2, Del Rey edition, General Notes: Wizard:
In the original Japanese version of Fairy Tail, you'll find panels in which the English word "wizard" is part of the original illustration. So this translation has taken that as its inspiration and translated the word madôshi as "wizard". But madôshi's meaning is similar to certain Japanese words that have been borrowed by the English language, such as judo (the soft way) and kendo (the way of the sword). Madô is the way of magic, and madôshi are those who follow the way of magic. So although the word "wizard" is used in the original dialogue, a Japanese reader would be likely to think not of traditional Western wizard such as Merlin or Gandalf, but of martial artists.
Translation Notes, General Notes, Names
Okay, here are the Translation Notes from the Fairy Tail Volume 2, Del Rey edition, General Notes: Names:
Hiro Mashima has graciously agreed to provide official English spellings for just about all the characters in Fairy Tail. Because this version of Fairy Tail is the first publication of most of these spellings, there will inevitably be differences between these spellings and some of the fan interpretations that may have spread throughout the Web or in other fan circles. Rest assured that the spellings contained in this book are the spellings that Mashima-sensei wanted for Fairy Tail.
End of Fairy Tail
This was posted on Anime News Network just recently. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-03-02/fairy-tail-anime-tv-run-to-end-on-march-30. I am going to include in the lead section of the article. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 16:26, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
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