Talk:List of Filipino generals in the Philippine Revolution and the Philippine–American War

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Recast this list as a table? Other suggestions?[edit]

Perhaps something like the following:

Filipino Generals in the Philippine Revolution of 1896 and the Filipino-American War of 1899
Name Grade Affiliation Province
Aguinaldo, Baldomero Lieutenant General (President, Magdalo Council) Magdalo Cavite
Aguinaldo, Crispulo Major General Magdalo Cavite
Aguinaldo, Emilio General of the "Philippine Republican Army"
President of the Malolos Republic 		Magdalo Cavite
Alejandrino, Jose Brigadier General Neutral Manila
Alejandrino, Jose Brigadier General Neutral Manila
Alvarez, Mariano Lieutenant General (President, Magdiwang Council) Magdiwang Cavite

Perhaps add a Comments or Remarks field for some brief comments related to the named individual.

Comments? Further suggestions? Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:29, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Objections??

Are there any objections to my converting the bulk of the article to a table similar to the above? If not, I'll probably do this when I have a block of time to spare. Please comment. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:39, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Article scope; supporting sources[edit]

I have expanded ranks to "Commander" for acknowledging Guerrilla warfare leadership after collapse of Philippine Republican army leadership and "de facto" General as description for ranks following successions of officers when commanding general surrendered or captured Michael (talk) 12:35, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've added some supporting cites to the article, but the bulk of the assertions contained in it are still unsupported. Hopefully, others will contribute citations of sources supporting article assertions.

Presuming that the bulk of the present content can be supported, it seems to me that it would be useful to widen the scope of the article, retitling it as something like List of General Officers in the Philippine Revolution of 1896 and the Filipino-American War of 1899 and to add cite-supported content regarding flag officers of other involved countries (e.g., Spain and the U.S.). Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:39, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Affiliation" and "Province"[edit]

I intend to add notes explaining the meaning of the "Affiliation" and "Province" categorizations. I am just guessing at the intended meanings, and invite corrections to my guesses below:

  • Affiliation here refers to support of political fractions or individuals in the Katipunan movement.
  • Province here refers to provinces within the individual's areas of operational responcibilities.

Comments or corrections would be appreciated. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:46, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Eusebio Aguirre should not be included in the list because he was a Spanish General. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ubaldo alexis (talk • contribs) 07:24, 31 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Three edits reverted[edit]

I've reverted three edits to the article which collectively made these changes.

The first edit looks like it might have been a test edit -- inserting a Ref, but doing it improperly. I would have tried to correct it, but I can't figure out what assertion the ref was intended to support. Perhaps reading Help:Footnotes would help. Here, I've added the referenced item as a general reference.

The second edit inserted "and Officers" into the header of a table which lists only General officers. This appears to be an error.

The third edit removed article content, and appears to have done so erroneously.

Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 06:52, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Shorten article title[edit]

The article title seems to be a bit long, perhaps becuase it is going for accuracy rather than clarity. Perhaps we can

(a) drop the modifier "Filipino" since most are Filipino but this list also includes non-Filipinos
(b) drop "generals" since other officers, and non-officers are listed
(c) combine "Philippine Revolution" and "Philppine-American War" under some general title such as "Philippine revolutionary forces" or "Philippine revolutionary army"

In short, change this article's title from its current List of Filipino generals in the Philippine Revolution and the Philippine–American War to List of significant members of Philippine revolutionary army or List of officers of Philippine revolutionary army --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 14:20, 5 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A shorter title would be better, IMO; I'll leave it to others more creative than I to suggest a good one.
I would like to see the scope widened, but in a different way. I would like to see content added listing flag officers of other countries involved in the PhilAm war, and in the Philippine Revolution if included (flag officers of Spain and the U.S., and others if there were others). Perhaps add a column to the table for affiliation and another to indicate involvement in the Philippine Revolution, in the PhilAm War, or in both. Also, I think the table should be limited to flag officers unless exceptional cases exist (with exceptional cases included being individually clarified). There might be difficulties identifying "generals" or "flag officers" on the revolutionary side of the Philippine Revolution for purposes of inclusion in or exclusion from the list. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 04:15, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm... List of flag officers in Philippine wars? Add ... and rebellions? Say "commanders" instead of "flag officers"? Include conflicts such as British occupation of Manila, Battles of La Naval de Manila, [others?]? Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 04:32, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I would support shortening to List of notable members of ..., List of officers of ... or List of soldiers of ..., with a slight preference for List of notable members of .... I don't think that their was a separate navy with sailors though there were boats and so we can use "soldiers". We can make it clear in the summary that this is for notable members and therefore do not need "notable" or "significant' in the title but I think that having either in the title would be helpful to prevent extraneous additions.
However what do we put after "of"? Many of the generals and the leaders of the revolution were not really a part of Aguinaldo's Luzon army. On every island the revolutionary forces were different. Some were commanded by officers sent by and under the command of Aguinaldo. Some were non-Luzon officers that accepted Aguinaldo's authority fully. Some more only nominally accepted Aguinaldo's authority. Others never accepted Aguinaldo's or the First Philippine Republic's authority at all, even declaring their own republics. Listing them all as part of one army is to give them a unity which didn't exist. Maybe we should say "...of Philippine revolutionary forces" or "...of the Philippine revolutionary period" or keep "...in the Philippine Revolution and the Philippine–American War" --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 05:07, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This link talks of "Philippines Independence Armies" [1]--Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 05:13, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

American deserters[edit]

I was looking at this article today and noticed some problems in the Foreign officers servicemen in the Philippine Republican (Revolutionary) Army section. First, I noticed that William Hyer's mention was tagged {{cn}}. Some googling found a supporting source which happened to be a book I had just bought. A look in the book turned up support for several other persons mentioned in the section, but I saw that the article already cited a supporting source for them. A look at the cited source failed to confirm the claimed support for some of them. A look for the editor who had added these bad cites led me to myself[2] (oh, crap!).

I have no idea what might have caused me to screw this up initially, but I've tried to straighten it out here.

I could not find a source supporting the mention of George Raymond, and I've left that tagged {{cn}}. His name appears to have been added in this December 2011 edit. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:46, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Split (unmerge) from Philippine Revolutionary Army[edit]

Philippine Revolutionary Army#List of general officers was apparently created by this February 2014 edit using content from an earlier version of this article, and there has likely been some divergence between the two versions since then. I've proposed that most of the content there be removed in favor of treating this article as a WP:SS article there. Discussion at Talk:Philippine Revolutionary Army#Split. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:35, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

General officer density[edit]

I count over 100 general officers named in this article. Without citing sources, the Philippine–American War article puts Filipino strength at around 80,000–100,000 (Regular & Irregular). This density of general officers (over one percent of total force strength) seems unusual. I'm wondering if anyone knows of sources which might shed light on it. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 08:37, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Suppose you check your math; 1 in 1000 is not 1% but 0,1%. Also, as far as I see it, it contains those of both the revolution and the war against the Americans, which are not neccessarily the same and therefore boosts the numbers. Also, beginning with numerous factions in the revolution instead of a unified nation and armed force, you´ll have another reason for the high number there. ...GELongstreet (talk) 18:01, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. I just did that after making another addition to the article. I count 134 Generals currently listed here (and I just noticed that Servillano Aquino is not listed -- I'll add him later); the Philippine Revolution article puts troop strength at 40,000-60,000; my calculator says that 60,000 divided by 134 is 450ish troops per general officer. I'm guessing that political considerations influenced the appointment of officers in the higher ranks, but that ratio seems remarkable. Seriously -- that ratio seems remarkable enough to warrant a remark, but I haven't been able to google up any on-point sources. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 12:58, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

On formatting the 'Grade' section for newly added generals[edit]

I would like to request that when placing the Grade value, please use the following format - data-sort-value="X"| instead of the format {sort|X}} , as the old format can occasionally cause errors in the code if a section of text extends across multiple lines. Thanks! CʀʏsᴛᴀʟBʟᴀᴄᴋsᴍɪᴛʜ (talk) 18:45, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:37, 30 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:04, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Numbering system[edit]

the numbering system on the table makes it difficult to insert new entries to this table. Is there an automated way of editing with numbers. When I added two new entries I have to changed the numbers on half of the entries. Michael (talk) 20:43, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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