Talk:List of Game of Thrones characters

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Untitled[edit]

Brienne "I don't serve the Starks, I serve lady Cateyln" She shouldn't be under Starks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.2.129.99 (talk) 10:56, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Information, namely deaths[edit]

Please do not include more information than is necessary about any character. Only that information which brings clarity to the characters background, or their relationship to others should be included. Information of a characters death should only be included when their death is the only notable part of their appearance on the show (ie. Mycah, Waymer Royce, Will, etc.). This list should not provide an abundance of spoilers, merely a quick and dirty reference to who's who in the world.

Agreed, it's pretty frustrating having such massive spoilers on a big banner at the top of each name. This page is for people who are confused about characters and wanting to get a better handle on who is who, not for the ardent fans who already know who lives and dies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.159.176.242 (talk) 14:14, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

People keep adding the 'Status' column. That prevents the possibility of this page to be used as a reference guide for the viewer who is catching up, since it spoils future events of the show. The information is still there, usually at the end of each character's description, which avoids involuntary spoiling a plot point to the viewer. Not everyone is up to date with the show, and it costs nothing to be a little bit more considerate. Aditionally, the column keeps getting restored without giving a reason at all. I have given my reasons to delete it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.134.14.18 (talk) 19:10, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Please see WP:SPOILER, Wikipedia does not hide nor remove spoilers. If people don't want to know what happens then they shouldnt come here. Besides, your point is mute "That prevents the possibility of this page to be used as a reference guide for the viewer who is catching up, since it spoils future events of the show." You are basically saying they come here to find out what happens/has happened anyway. -- MisterShiney 21:21, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
That doesn't really answer the question of why "Status" needs to be displayed so prominently in articles such as these. The issue isn't that spoilers are there, it's that it's right on the header and is difficult to avoid. You could find out the status of the character by reading the whole bio. 50.152.221.214 (talk) 23:18, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
I'm saying that people could possibly come just to check a name of a character or an actor, since the cast is so large. I'm not saying that the information of a character's death shouldn't be displayed, I'm just saying that it shouldn't be displayed so prominently. It takes little effort and it avoids accidental spoilers. Wikipedia may not hide nor remove spoilers, but it doesn't have to blatantly put them in the header. The information is still in the character bio. If users want to find out a character's status, they can read the bio until the end. That way, the article informs and also allows users to decides how much they want to know. You obviously are up to date with the show. But what if you weren't? What if you were to enter the article and find out about a character's death? You'll probably tell me "I know better than to enter an article with potential spoilers", but not everyone is as prepared. And Wikipedia is a website for everyone, not just you. --186.134.46.79 (talk) 07:26, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I came here because I was confused by all the characters and wanted to know who is who. Since I just started with season 3, I didn't know Robb Stark and others are dead. Instead of finding it out by watching, I saw it here, not hidden and without a warning. I think the best idea is to remove the status from the banner to the bio. And if certain people don't want it that way, at least add spoiler warnings. Laristyna (talk) 10:57, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Mikken[edit]

  • The blacksmith of Winterfell is mentioned by name in episode three, but he can clearly be seen in episode two honing Needle with Jon. I have no idea who played him and haven't been able to find the info anywhere, but if anyone knows, feel free to throw it out there. I'm thinking of adding him to the list of characters since he has made an appearance, but without an actor to go with it it feels a bit wrong.Thaddeus Venture (talk) 17:23, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Alright, I was actually able to hunt this down thanks to an interview that Tommy Dunne did about crafting game of thrones weapons and he thanked his team by name and if you look up Boyd Rankin and Mikken you'll find a couple of threads showing that he was infact the team member who played Mikken, so now we know.Thaddeus Venture (talk) 17:46, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

People of Westeros[edit]

  • Characters such as Syrio Forel, Bronn, Shagga, Shae, etc. Could potentially be seen more as people of Westeros, rather than members or retainers of a specific house as they do not hold a set position within that house, but are rather recruited for specific services.Thaddeus Venture (talk) 19:17, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Heward & Wyl[edit]

If anyone knows who played them in episode 5 I'd be grateful.Thaddeus Venture (talk) 18:03, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Separate pages for regular characters?[edit]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but I would like to suggest the creation of separate pages for regular characters in the HBO series, particularly those played by high profile actors (Ned, Robert, Tyrion, and such). The existence of the HBO series increases the notability of these characters. Most other HBO shows have exclusive pages for the lead characters, I can't see why this one should be any different. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.168.126.39 (talk) 11:52, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Obviously, the main characters already have enough notability to warrant an individuala articles. References should not be hard to find. If anyone feels like starting them, just be bold and go ahead.--RR (talk) 12:29, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

How do you create individual pages? --IP (talk) 00:02 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.99.78.157 (talk)

Pyp is a Mummer?[edit]

As of now, Pypar is describe thusly:

Pypar is a brother of the Night's Watch, informally called "Pyp." A former mummer, he was condemned to the Wall after refusing the sexual advances of his former lord.

I think that for many Americans, at least those living in the northeast, these are mummers:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_LiJCTiIqdb4/TR_KURSF3uI/AAAAAAAADYQ/K1irRnnUhlI/s1600/Philadelphia-Mummers-Parade.jpg

Or, as the website where I found this picture describes them:

It's grown men, well now women & some children, but it started as grown men, who dress up in garish, flamboyant costumes, then strum some banjo's & 'strut' up Philly's Broadway [in a parade every New Year's Day]. (Note: Philly is Philadelphia, PA)

According to the article Mummers Parade, "an edited two-hour broadcast of the parade" is now nationally televised by WGN-TV (a "superstation"). So, knowledge of these "mummers" may extend to other parts of the country. (Edited down to 2 hours! How long is this parade?) Also per the article,

The Mummers Parade traces back to mid-17th century roots, blending elements from Swedish, Finnish, Irish, English, German and other European heritages, as well as African heritage.

I assume what is meant by a "mummer" is someone who acted in costume or with a mask. Some well educated Americans may know this, but I suspect it's a small percentage of the viewing audience. Is the word "actor" a synonym - or even a "pantomimist"? I think mummers aren't perceived as actors so much as revellers, at best something like performers in a Carnival.

Also, the description seems to imply that his lord's advances had something to do with his being (or no longer being) a mummer, If this is so, then that's a nuance about mummers that's new to me. Ileanadu (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Links to Spoilers[edit]

Just a note that clicking on the names on this page links to a page on the character from A Song of Ice and Fire, which can often provide spoilers to people who've only seen the TV show. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.228.176 (talk) 06:51, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

this section is actually chock full of spoilers for people watching the show. it would be nice if the tv series pages were written without knowledge of what happens in the books — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.85.135.223 (talk) 19:27, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Color Running[edit]

I'm noticing that Tully, Night's Watch and People of Essos do not depict the color properly on the little bars above the specific character I may change the colors to ensure that a clearer view is depicted.--Jack Cox (talk) 14:35, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

House Targaryen?[edit]

Well they aren't really a House anymore, just two renegade kids in the Dothraki Sea, and they are hogging the colour Red, which is the main Lannister colour. Lann the Clever would spin in his grave if he found out the House he founded were being represented as pink. Change? — Preceding unsigned comment added by NecroSheik (talkcontribs) 21:05, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I changes the Lannisters to a dark red. I agree that the pink was not fitting, but I think the Targaryens still deserve their own representation. J52y (talk) 20:07, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

the actors' story[edit]

it appears that in some charachters, tyrion and ned, there are paragraphs that appear to be promotional, while in others there isn't.

I want to remove them, since they remove cohesion from the article, are outside the world of the tv show, and sound like PR. any objections? Drorzm (talk) 21:34, 1 June 2012 (UTC)


the hound?[edit]

I know he has not done too much in the series as of yet but I dont see him under house lannister for some reason — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.22.67.116 (talk) 16:30, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

The hound is listed as is character name "Sandor Clegane" in the "Main Characters" section. Caidh (talk) 17:18, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Gendry[edit]

Seeing as a user wont follow BRD and do this, I shall do it myself. Dempsy is still only reoccurring and not considered a main character and therefore should not be in the main cast section, but remain in Westeros. The official website itself does not list him as a main character, but just as a reoccurring. Just because he was in the credits does not make him a main character. They named the whores in the brothel during the credits...should they all be main characters? Didn't think so. MisterShiney 15:35, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. —♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 16:26, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Agreed - http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/cast-and-crew/index.html should remain more authoritative than single episode credits. Caidh (talk) 16:40, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes, we should refer to the HBO list. Though one must take into account that some main cast members from previous seasons (e.g. Sean Bean) are no longer listed there.  Sandstein  16:42, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Interesting point. Perhaps there should be a section for deceased characters? But as far as I am aware that if they were credited as Main then they get to stay...? Anyway, based on this obvious consensus and lack of an input from said editor, I have reverted his changes again. MisterShiney 20:44, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
No need. In their respective biographies, you can simply indicate they're dead. Should be enough. If we're gonna seperate all living characters from the dead ones, the table of contents on this article will become longer than the Colorado river.—♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 21:56, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Well dear friend i reverted it again not because im doing an edit war with you, simple because you're "edit" was pretty mess and to the topic during some point someone is going to put Gendry to the main characters list, Talisa is not a main character in HBO's official website too. But whatever obviusly you guys are not watching the show, cause if you are it would mean that when you see it's raining you won't believed it, untill you hear about it in the news. Have a nice evening Rey Keshe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.5.150.184 (talk) 22:23, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

But regardless, at this moment in time according to the official website, he is not considered a main character in the series. As for the mess I supposedly made, looking back at it now, I assume you mean the table? Regardless, you should follow WP:BRD and if you see something wrong with the table, then fix it. Do not revert changes against consensus. Especially when two of the people saying that the official sources are ones that reign are admins! Who are well aware of the polices and guidelines. MisterShiney 22:29, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Alright, Rey Keshe has been blocked for 24 hours and so has his IP-sockpuppet 212.5.150.184 for breaking the 3RR and ignoring consensus. I'm hoping this unfortunate action will end the edit wars. If not, I'm afraid the article is going to need some kind of WP:PP. Don't let it get to that, please.—♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 22:48, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the swift intervention Amber. Did you also catch the second IP he edited from? On a different note, I took a look and it does appear I did fopar the table a bit, any chance you could take a peek and see where I went wrong? Thank you :) MisterShiney 22:51, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
No need to thank me, I'm just doing my job. Furthermore: I'm not banning the second IP right now, since I can't be certain enough it is Ray. Although it appears very likely, the banned IP confessed what his true identity was on this talk page, while the other one has only edited the article page once. I find that as of yet inconclusive proof. —♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 22:54, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Okie dokie. I just saw it and thought it was a little too convenient. Did you get a chance to take a look at the table fopar of mine? MisterShiney 22:57, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Never mind. I saw what was going on. There was an extra column in Main cast section that wasn't in the rest of the sections. :) MisterShiney 23:18, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

I have to disagree with the current consensus on this one. I believe that the show itself is a better source regarding the show than a website about the show, even if said website is the official one (after all isn't the show official too?). Additionally the part in the original comment about the whores in the brother being named in the credits is not applicable. While it's true several actresses playing whores have appeared in the closing credits, the only whore to appear in the opening credits over the course of the series is Shae and there seems to be no issue with naming her a main cast member. The issue is regarding characters in the opening credits not credits in general. Furthermore the website is hardly explicit in differentiating between main cast and recurring cast. The only heading there simply says "cast". There is a only fine dotted line between only two characters (Catelyn and Aemon) which you are assuming acts as a full division of status and further assuming this division specifically determines main/guest status. Former main cast members appear below the line (Drogo does not appear at all despite several much more minor characters still appearing somewhere) and non main cast such as Brienne and Mance appear above it (who I notice noone has attempted to move into the main cast section yet). By contrast the show very clearly separates main cast and guest cast by placing them in the opening and closing credits respectively and by actually putting the guest cast under the heading "Guest starring". Basically I'm saying why should we take the word of the website over evidence from the actual show itself when the show is the subject of the article. Especially when the website doesn't actually say "these are the main cast and these are the guest cast" and when the show does say that. Gendry and Talisa are main cast and Brienne and Mance are not. There just isn't definitive evidence to say otherwise. (PS I would actually prefer the opposite to be the case, as Brienne is my favourite character and I actually shouted at the TV for the whole Talisa/Jayne debacle). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.170.42.163 (talkcontribs) 12:45, 10 April 2013‎

Agree, with the previous post. I can not see any reason why the official webpage (probably made by HBOs prom department, and not the creator of the show( should be treated as a better source than the episode credits themselves. I have not seen any other article on a TV series, where the credits in the episodes are not used to determine who is the main characters and who are recurring. In Game of Thrones the main characters are the one listened in the opening credits at the beginning of the epsiode, while recurring and guest stars are listened at the end. In Season three both Oona Chaplin and Joe Dempsie are in the opening credits at the beginning along whit the other "starring" cast members as opposed to "guest starring", and therefore Gendry and Talisa should be considered main characters.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a00:c440:20:a3b:f4cf:cd8f:f2e0:c4e2 (talkcontribs) 15:04, 11 April 2013‎
How about because it's the OFFICIAL page! Regardless of who wrote it. Its the Official page. The problem is that at beginning of the episode the credits of main characters for that Episode and may not reflect the series as a while. Therefore my dear IP users, you are incorrect. What is on the Official Website reigns until they say otherwise and the dotted line is a very good indicator as to who is a SUPPORTING character. Because there is such a fine line between who is a guest/reoccurring, on this page there is a distinction of supporting characters over main cast. MisterShiney 23:40, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
How about because it's the OFFICIAL show. Sheesh. 101.170.85.76 (talk) 04:27, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
Keep it civil, please, guys. —♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 06:46, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
Here's the thing. While you will never be able to say anything to convince me that the show is a secondary source for the show, it doesn't actually matter. This is because the website never actually says anything to the effect of - people above the (small, incomplete) dotted line are main stars and people below are guest stars. There are no headings, there is no key. There are only pictures and names. Therefore regardless of what the source is, the information regarding main stars in it is only implied and not stated. Determining star status from that is an assumption only (regardless of how obvious it may seem) and therefore WP:OR. The show by contrast specifically uses the heading "Guest starring" making a very clear and unambiguous distinction between main and guest cast. We only have one source that actually says who fits in each category and therefore we need to use the info from that source and not speculation based on the images on the website. The fact that the website is official is irrelevant if it does not actually state what we are trying to establish. 101.171.255.240 (talk) 00:50, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
Actually would one of the moderators be willing to actually open the link and look at it, to make a definitive ruling on whether the information MisterShiney has independently inferred from it, counts as original research or not? 101.171.255.240 (talk) 00:55, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
Ok so let me get this straight....I'm looking at the official website and that is original research. If I were you I would read the policy you quoted and find out what the actual definition of OR is. On and while you are at it, I suggest you read the policy on socking too. Oh and editing the page almost after its protection has been lifted is incredibly bad faith at best. Especially making a revision that the page was originally protected for! MisterShiney 21:45, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
I'm gonna make the call 101.171.255.240 requested and say: no, that is not original research.—♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 22:04, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
MisterShiney, firstly I did not do the edit on the page (except to put back the word Theon) and was certainly not socking (at least not deliberately). In fact it was only now that I realised my IP was changing (only the ones that start with 101.17 are me. I had not previously noticed that the rest of the numbers were different each time since it started the same). The person who made the edit was someone else. I did however see the edit and while I too thought it was a bit rude, I did not undo it because I believed it to be accurate (and still do). Secondly what I was suggesting about OR was not that the official website was OR but that what you had inferred from it was OR as the website never 'explicitly' stated what you were using it as a source for. Apparently I'm reading the policy wrong. I will accept Amberrock's ruling taht it is not OR, though I do admit to being quite confused by it. I do still believe that the show itself should remain the primary source for all information regarding the show itself though. 101.170.85.58 (talk) 09:32, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Apologies, it can be very easy to see all IPs as a group of numbers and the same editor. Apologies also for losing my cool and lashing out like that. It wasn't acceptable. I was just severely annoyed that a few hours after the protection was lifted, it was reverted again. Anyway, having very carefully watched the credits (twice) last night, I can see that Gendry is indeed credited in the opening credits. However, the official website has a clear distinction between regular characters and in a different section, as defined by the dotted line, which clearly indicates a different section. We could go around in circles and try and determine what this mean, but then we would need to know and understand the programmes motives in listing him in a separate section on the website and yet crediting him in the opening credits. In the interest of unanimity, I am happy for his listing to stay in the main section, unless someone else appears and provides another equally justified reason for him not to be included in the main list. MisterShiney 20:04, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Thankyou for your apology and your understanding. I can understand how you could come to that conclusion especially since my edits were under slightly different IPs each time too. I also understand your frustration regarding the other editor's disrespectful revert. I too would like to apologise for my uncivil behaviour earlier. Hopefully they manage to be more obviously uniform with these things in future so that there is less room for multiple interpretations and we can avoid discussions like this one. My only theory is that the promotions department who set up the website were not as hard wired into the decisions made by the actual show creators as we would like them to be (though this obviously is pure speculation). I'm glad we have put this behind us and hope we are able to work together in future to maintain the standard of pages regarding a show we are obviously both passionate about. 101.170.170.142 (talk) 06:57, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Semi-locked[edit]

I'm sorry to announce this page is now semi-locked due to repeated vandal/sock puppet actions. I will continue monitoring the situation and remove this protection as soon as possible.—♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 23:05, 9 April 2013 (UTC)


Character page links[edit]

Hi. I was wondering why there are links on certain character names and not others. Every one of them (with the very odd exception of Margaery Tyrell) links to Characters in A Song of Ice and Fire anyway so it seems strange to have some linked and others not. I think we should remove them all and just have the Characters in A Song of Ice and Fire link up the top or alternatively put links on them all. On a related note why is Margaery the only character with her own page? Shouldn't there either be multiple important characters with there own pages or none of them? And if you were only going to have one, why her and not someone far more important to the series like Eddard or Tyrion? She's not even a POV character in the books. It just strikes me as weird. 101.170.42.162 (talk) 12:15, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Ramsay[edit]

I think the Ramsay Snow entry should be removed, especially the link to the article that talks about Iwan Rheon. This is a MAJOR spoiler for non-book readers and the identity of the character has not yet been revealed on the show. He should be identified as "Boy" which is how he has been identified in casting announcements so far. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.224.63 (talkcontribs) 19:40, 4 May 2013‎

The first reason you give is not a very good one (due to WP:SPOILERS), but the second one actually makes sense.—♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 19:42, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Why is the fact that it is a spoiler that has not even been revealed on the show yet not a good reason? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.224.63 (talk) 19:47, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
As I said, a spoiler is not a good reason to have something not listed on Wikipedia (you can read all about it here), but if no credible sources have yet to confirm that Rheon is Ramsay, then the information should indeed not be listed.—♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 19:56, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
I agree about spoilers. Spoilers such as Ned's death are fair game. However, the difference between the identity of Ramsay and other spoilers are that it isn't even something from the show. It is something that is from the books and applied to the show. Information from "A Song of Ice and Fire" should not be used on this page, because "A Song of Ice and Fire" and "Game of Thrones" are separate entities which do not necessarily have the same plots. Using Ramsay's name as the identity of this character simply because that is information from the books would be just like say, writing about something that happens in the Red Wedding just because we know it from the books. Something that hasn't even happened in the show yet and is only known because of book information does not fall under this same spoiler policy you linked to. Really, I just want to prevent non-book readers from viewing this page and learning something that has not happened in the show. Also, the article cited states "Given his age and looks, I am willing to bet that he will be playing Ramsay Snow". This is a bad reference to use, as this is simply speculation of the author of that article. There has been no official confirmation of Rheon's character, so his character should be listed as "Boy" as detailed in this article: http://www.accesshollywood.com/game-of-thrones-welsh-actor-iwan-rheon-joins-season-3-cast_article_67773 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.224.63 (talk) 20:24, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── As has been explained, Wikipedia does not remove content based on them being spoilers. I wasn't aware of him being just referred to as boy, I had rather assumed he was Ramsay Snow. -- MisterShiney 12:40, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Pictures[edit]

Just a quick question? Why do all the profiles have pictures of the actors rather than pictures of the actors in costume as the characters? Many of the actors look almost nothing like their characters when out of costume and since this is an article about the characters, wouldn't it make sense to have a picture of say "Ned Stark" rather than a picture of "Sean Bean." Emperor001 (talk) 19:13, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Images must follow the Wikipedia:Image use policy. Any image of an actor in character/costume is likely to be copyrighted and unable to be used.--☾Loriendrew☽ (talk) 13:24, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
Ah, anyone know of where some images for free use might be? I know the GoT and Ice and Fire Wikis typically have pics of the characters. Emperor001 (talk) 20:37, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

The [Season 2] episode count is wonky[edit]

Many of these characters have not actually appeared yet. Obviously the episode count is based on the first episode, but a lot of these people didn't appear in the first episode. john k (talk) 12:23, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I believe that the episode count is at one for everyone because they have been cast in and appear in the first season, meaning that they appear in at least one episode at some point in the first season.Thaddeus Venture (talk) 18:46, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Character Additions / Staring vs Guest Staring & Recuring[edit]

  • Hi there. For whatever its worth, why don't you add a "mugshot" of each character from the TV series, so that book readers can have an easier time reading the second book n the series. Just a suggestion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.27.34.193 (talk) 04:26, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
I second this, it would be a very good contribution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Upsidown (talkcontribs) 23:49, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Alright, I realize no one has really used this talk page other than me, but I have been running into a conflict with another editor on this page, who claims that this page is to be kept to characters "We know will appear in more than one episode," except for maybe Jon Arryn and Gendry and some others were not sure about. If this is indeed the intention of the creators of this page, who this person is not one of, I would suggest that this should be changed to those characters who are either addressed by name in the show, or who have been given names in production. As the series is quite faithful to the books most introduced characters tend to have a decent involvement in the plot and/or create a key driving point for one of the main characters (even if they only do so for one episode, ie. Mycah). Anticipating who will be in more than one episode can be difficult and having to create constant exceptions for important characters who are in only one episode seems arbitrary and problematic. If anyone would like to debate the merits of these arguments I would be happy to find some flexible middle ground between leaving them off altogether and putting everyone on. Thaddeus Venture (talk) 17:18, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
I personally think it isn't really a matter of how many episodes but of importance to the plot. Random guardsmen and such in my opinion don't merit entry in the article regardless of how many episodes they are in. A character like Jon Arryn is central to the plot even if he is only shown as a corpse and definitely merits entry. The page does not have to be exhaustive and include every character (there are fan wikis for that).Caidh (talk) 19:42, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
That's valid, but that and it's a fine point, but it makes the article highly susceptible to personal opinion and prejudice. How do characters like Mycah, Will, Vardis Ergen, and Ser Hugh fit in. Would you count them, or are they to small. They're important to the plot, but not on the show for a long period of time, similar to Jon Arryn. Like I said, the method of inclusion doesn't have to be include everyone, but it should be a concrete system and not "Hey I don't think he's important." I would say that if it isn't commonly known who the actor is portraying the role then the character might not be included, named or not. That might be a reasonable middle ground and would disclude characters like Wyl, Heward, Mikken (potentially) and that's about it. Also then where do you stand with listing Hodor, Marillion, Irri, Jhiqui, Qotho, Ros, and Lommy. All of these character should feature as plot peripherals, but none of them really have any importance to the plot itself. I hate to add this too, but if it's just a matter of putting the work in, I'll put the work in, that's not a big deal.Thaddeus Venture (talk) 23:53, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Size or importance of a guest role is not the question. This is a TV series, not the books. If you go to Rome's page and look for the actor who played King Herod in one episode, guess what? YOU WON'T FIND HIM! Same with The Wire, The Sopranos, Deadwood, or any other show with loads of characters. The "Characters" page is not some sort of reservoir for every character that appears, even if the character himself/herself is prominent for that episode. That's what episode pages are for; they list every character that appeared in that ep and the actor that plays them. On Game of Thrones, Gared, Waymar Royce, Will, Armeca, Mycah, and other roles might--MIGHT--be plot-relevant, but they are NOT part such a part of the show that a page devoted to its continuing characters needs to have a listing for all of them. This is doubly the case for featured extras that we may or may not ever learn the name of the actor. It is unreasonable to try and list everyone YOU feel is important to the plot, so some rules are in order, and that rule is: regular or recurring characters ONLY. Otherwise, you must list every random goldcloak or Dothraki warrior who gets a line.
Once again I'm not trying to impliment an arbitrary system of who or what I think is important, I'm only suggesting that those characters who are given a proper name, and for whom their actor is credited, be listed, this would not include every random gold cloak or Dothraki, or anything else arbitrary. This is a set system with set rules and would have no exceptions. There are at least 18 characters (of which you only deleted 4) that have only appeared in one episode that you are interested in keeping on for the sake of speculation. Many minor characters appear in more than one episode. The whole episode count thing is just very arbitrary. I think my system works better and is less arbitrary. And please refrain from posting editing notes in the article itself as they belong on a discussion page.Thaddeus Venture (talk) 22:35, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Gared, Waymar and Will are DEAD. They appeared in the pilot and then they DIED. They are NOT important enough to warrant a listing. Same with Mycah. Armeca has had one appearance, and while I don't think she'll appear again this season it's not impossible she'll come back next season, but as she's an invented character, we don't KNOW that, so until she appears again, she doesn't belong on this page. For the record, I DID create this page and I absolutely did not mean for it to become a listing of everybody who gets a name and a line. Keep putting them back, and I'll keep taking them out. We'll see who gets tired first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Old Soldier (talkcontribs) 23:24, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
I think we need a consensus on this. If there are characters that you think should be added which have been deleted, I recommend discussing them here. The page definitely had additions of characters which are pretty much background characters (either only appearing in one episode and having almost no impact on the plot, or appearing in multiple episodes and having no impact). Reference to some of these characters can be made in the episode list for that specific episode (in brief) if needed.Caidh (talk) 05:53, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
  • Alright, let the consensus begin. Here are a list of characters that, under the "They are NOT important enough to warrant a listing," and the "so until she appears again, she doesn't belong on this page" or the "only appearing in one episode and having almost no impact on the plot, or appearing in multiple episodes and having no impact". We can debate each one, or we can just create a more steadfast rule so the page doesn't end up in the thrall of statements like this "Armeca has had one appearance, and while I don't think she'll appear again this season it's not impossible she'll come back next season, but as she's an invented character, we don't KNOW that, so until she appears again, she doesn't belong on this page." Which seems like an incredibly arbitrary guideline to expect every other editor to follow. So here's the list:

Jon Arryn
Vardis Egen
Hugh
Marillion
Mord
Gendry
Ilyn Payne
Meryn Trant
Walder Frey
Myrcella Baratheon
Tommen Baratheon
Kevan Lannister
Shae
Shagga
Jory Cassel
Galbart Glover
Mikken
Old Nan
Rickon Stark
Jon Umber
Maester Aemon
Gared
Bowen Marsh
Waymar Royce
Will
Irri
Jhiqui
Mirri Maz Duur
Qotho
Armeca
Jonos Bracken
Beric Dondarrion
Lommy Greenhands
Masha Heddle
Hot Pie
Mhaegen
Tobho Mott
Mycah
Ros
Janos Slynt
Stiv

Now I think we can all agree that some of these characters should become important, but as has been noted, these aren't the books, this is the TV series so that sort of thing shouldn't be taken for granted.Thaddeus Venture (talk) 12:43, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Arguments can be made that some of the two-shot appearances, like Vardis Egen, Ser Hugh, Mord, etc., probably should be removed, particularly the first two since we know they'll never come back. But I created this page to be like the character page for any other TV series; for the REGULAR and RECURRING characters, NOT every character who impacts the plot, no matter how briefly they appear. I have already removed Jon Arryn because if we've gone this long without a flashback involving him, we're likely never going to get one. I'll likely remove Jhiqui as well, unless she is used more next season (which is likely). Again, I am removing all those you added that are clearly one-shot guest characters, and I will continue to do so. The consensus is; REGULAR AND RECURRING CAST ONLY. NOT ONE-SHOT GUEST APPEARANCES. I don't care how important to the plot they are. They'll be listed in the episode page, NOT here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Old Soldier (talkcontribs) 15:05, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
I haven't watched the eighth episode yet, but I really don't think most if not all of those listed two comments ago should be included in the article. There's a couple I'm indecisive about (Jon Arryn especially) and there are many others who will definitely be included if things continue as they do in the books but not yet. Several of these currently minor characters may be recast by the time they have a larger role (people like Marillion and Kevan Lannister have little to no role even in the second season). I believe it isn't worth listing characters/actors here if they are not in multiple episodes with speaking roles.Caidh (talk) 16:31, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
BTW - you (Old Soldier and Thaddeus Venture) both seem to have a sincere interest in improving the article, just a difference of opinion. I'm sure some solicitation of opinions over at one of the WikiProject Television group would help get this issue settled.Caidh (talk) 23:23, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
Actually, Caidh, where Kevan is concerned I say wait and see. I highly doubt Tywin will be as underused in Season Two as he is in Book 2. The scenes where Arya only glimpses him can now be shown from his perspective, so he may appear in as many as four or five episodes. And in every episode he appears in, Kevan will likely appear. I do not recommend removing Kevan until Season 2 is finished. As for the re-casting of some of these roles, why worry about it unless/until it happens? I'm sure they told Emun Elliot what kind of character arc he would have before he signed. On another note, I am sincerely considering removing Bracken and Glover. They will likely be no more than featured extras at best and I don't think we'll ever hear them speak. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Old Soldier (talkcontribs) 00:42, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
IMHO, at least Tobho Mott and Jhiqui should be excluded from the list. They're characters with a single minor appareance with little impact on the plot.--RR (talk) 14:12, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
  • Mathos Seaworth belongs in Lord Stannis' house. Not Renly's.

Minor Characters (episodes)[edit]

Given that a vast majority of them have only been in one episode, do they have a place here? Should this list not just be fore Main and Reoccurring characters? I don't know, it just feels like we are naming every tom, dick or harry. MisterShiney 23:37, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Seeing as how the section doesn't meet Notability Guidelines or MOS Cast Info I have removed it. I should also point out how Trivial it all seemed naming every Tom, Dick and Harry. -- MisterShiney 20:02, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Minor characters (plot contributions)[edit]

I was under the impression that only notable characters who actually contribute to plot and appear in more than three or so episodes are going to be listed. So, why are there a plethora of one-shot guys hanging out on the page? ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 22:47, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

I originally added the section to list notable characters from the books that have become one episode characters for the TV series, and still have a notable speaking role; like Will, Vardis Egen and Maester Cressen. But some jokers thought adding EVERY character that appears from the novels in a minor capacity on the TV series, nameless and/or unconfirmed, was a good idea. I agree it needs a tidy up.

User:NecroSheik —Preceding undated comment added 15:17, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

  • Three editors have deleted Osha from the Cast Appearance list, and three others have added her back.
    She has been in FOURTEEN EPISODES!!
    I don't see you deleting the ELEVEN others characters on the list that have been in fewer episodes than her.
    You gotta knock that nonsense off already.
    24.79.32.243 (talk) 21:36, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
The other actors in that list are all credited in the main credits or, in the case of Jason Momoa, as "also starring" at the end of the cast list in the end credits. They are therefore the main (starring) cast, as also in the section below. The recurring cast is credited in the end credits and Natalia Tena falls in this category. If you want to include her, why not include all the other recurring actors who have appeared in many episodes (e.g. Julian Glover, Ian McElhinney, Michael McElhatton, Donald Sumpter, etc.)? The line must be drawn somewhere and the starring cast seems a good point, even if it appears somewhat arbitrary (Hannah Murray just one episode this season so far?). Making an exception for Osha makes no sense. Also, the comment on her first inclusion 6 days ago "should have been done by now." sounds like favouritism and the "three editors" who have added her back in are shown to be your IP (which also added her in the first place) twice, as well as a registered user. If you want to be so disingenuous, better make sure your IP is changed.Arjuna92 (talk) 21:58, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
fyi-I am not associated with the above IP.--☾Loriendrew☽ (talk) 23:50, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
My adding of the character back was under the assumption that she had equal billing on the show to other minor characters that are on the page. I know the main Game of Thrones page has a much higher standard of entry for characters (understandably so). I don't have the episodes handy so this could just be my misunderstanding - but there appear to be a lot of characters on this page who have had less screen time. Are all the characters on this page listed in the starting (not end) credits? Including characters like the "Three Eyed Crow", "Ilyn Payne" and "Hallyne"? If the actors who play those characters have been listed in the intro credits, that's fine. If not, then I fail to see what merits the removal of Osha while leaving so many other characters. Thanks in advance for any clarification on this issue that the editors suggesting removal for Osha can provide. Caidh (talk) 22:57, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
Osha should indeed be listed below as a supporting character because she is quite important and appears, as the anon user states, in 14 episodes. Whether the three characters you name are important enough for this is debatable. Certainly none of them are in the starring cast. The question at hand is whether Osha (Tena) should be in the "cast appearances" list at the top of the page, seeing as she would be the only non-starring cast member there. Hope that clears things up.Arjuna92 (talk) 23:21, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Arjuna - you've cleared it up for me well and I'm fine with leaving it as it is. My own reversions were due (in part) to my carelessness here. I thought the edits were removing the character completely, not just from the cast appearances section. I should look more carefully before reverting changes. My apologies for contributing to the confusion here! Caidh (talk) 23:26, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
As it is would mean including her on the list. I just haven't edited it back yet because edit wars are childish and I wanted some kind of clarifying statement here.Arjuna92 (talk) 23:40, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
With the amount of airtime and plot-involvement I would have thought her to be more than just a semi-recurring supporting character. When I saw her removed without a valid reason I placed her back. If the upper "Cast appearances" list only counts/tallies main-credited cast (those in the opening credits) then only those should be in that list, and that fact should be announced in a section lead. There is no indication of what that list is about, either overtly or through a hidden comment.--☾Loriendrew☽ (talk) 00:02, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

This discussion/debate is quite nonsensical: If you are going to judge based on something as minimal as the opening credits then you shouldn't make the title of the list do ridiculously general.
Try " Main Credit Cast Characters " as a title to be accurate, then you can claim to be acting correctly, otherwise you are using the general title to bait people so you can then correct them and feel important that you are correct and the corrector. I also think how long this list is allowed to be is something subjective. And I don't care that you now just recently have added a quaint explanation of how you are deciding right under the title - you shouldn't have to qualify the title. 24.79.36.79 (talk) 14:34, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Consdiering how long the supporting characters section is, I don't see what makes this list any worse:

Cast

Main article: Season 4 cast
Starring cast

Peter Dinklage as Tyrion Lannister (4 episodes)
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau as Ser Jaime Lannister (5 episodes)
Lena Headey as Queen Cersei Lannister (5 episodes)
Emilia Clarke as Queen Daenerys Targaryen (4 episodes)
Kit Harington as Jon Snow (4 episodes)
Aidan Gillen as Lord Petyr Baelish (3 episodes)
Charles Dance as Lord Tywin Lannister (4 episodes)
Natalie Dormer as Lady Margaery Tyrell (5 episodes)
Liam Cunningham as Ser Davos Seaworth (2 episodes)
Stephen Dillane as King Stannis Baratheon (2 episodes)
Carice van Houten as Lady Melisandre ("The Lion and the Rose")
Alfie Allen as Prince Theon Greyjoy ("The Lion and the Rose")
John Bradley as Samwell Tarly (3 episodes)
Jack Gleeson as King Joffrey Baratheon (3 episodes)
Isaac Hempstead-Wright as Bran Stark (3 episodes)
Rory McCann as Sandor Clegane (3 episodes)
Sophie Turner as Lady Sansa Stark (5 episodes)
Maisie Williams as Lady Arya Stark (3 episodes)
Gwendoline Christie as Brienne of Tarth (5 episodes)
Jerome Flynn as Ser Bronn (3 episodes)
Conleth Hill as Lord Varys (3 episodes)
Kristofer Hivju as Tormund Giantsbane (2 episodes)
Sibel Kekilli as Shae (2 episodes)
Rose Leslie as Ygritte (2 episodes)
Hannah Murray as Gilly ("Breaker of Chains")
Iwan Rheon as Ramsay Snow ("The Lion and the Rose")
Iain Glen as Ser Jorah Mormont (4 episodes)

Selected guest starring cast
Daniel Portman as Podrick Payne (5 episodes)
Jacob Anderson as Grey Worm (4 episodes)
Dean-Charles Chapman as Prince Tommen Baratheon (4 episodes)
Nathalie Emmanuel as Missandei (4 episodes)
Michiel Huisman as Daario Naharis (4 episodes)
Ian McElhinney as Ser Barristan Selmy (4 episodes)
Pedro Pascal as Prince Oberyn Martell (4 episodes)
Diana Rigg as Lady Olenna Tyrell (4 episodes)
Ian Beattie as Ser Meryn Trant (3 episodes)
Paul Bentley as the High Septon (3 episodes)
Thomas Brodie-Sangster as Jojen Reed (3 episodes)
Dominic Carter as Lord Janos Slynt (3 episodes)
Ben Crompton as Eddison Tollett (3 episodes)
Julian Glover as Grand Maester Pycelle (3 episodes)
Ellie Kendrick as Meera Reed (3 episodes)
Kristian Nairn as Hodor (3 episodes)
Mark Stanley as Grenn (3 episodes)
Noah Taylor as Locke (3 episodes)
Owen Teale as Ser Alliser Thorne (3 episodes)
Indira Varma as Ellaria Sand (3 episodes)
Tony Way as Dontos Hollard (3 episodes)v Josef Altin as Pypar (2 episodes)
Roger Ashton-Griffiths as Lord Mace Tyrell (2 episodes)
Luke Barnes as Rast (2 episodes)
Emilio Doorgasingh as a slave master (2 episodes)
Brian Fortune as Othell Yarwyck (2 episodes)
Joseph Gatt as a Thenn warg (2 episodes)
Josephine Gillan as Marei (2 episodes)
Burn Gorman as Karl (2 episodes)
Kerry Ingram as Princess Shireen Baratheon (2 episodes)
Finn Jones as Loras Tyrell (2 episodes)
Yuri Kolokolnikov as Styr (2 episodes)
Jane McGrath as Craster's wife (2 episodes)
Deirdre Monaghan as Morag (2 episodes)
Brenock O'Connor as Olly (2 episodes)
Will Tudor as Olyvar (2 episodes)
Peter Vaughan as Maester Aemon (2 episodes)
Kate Dickie as Lady Lysa Arryn ("First of His Name")
Lino Facioli as Lord Robin Arryn ("First of His Name")
Pixie Le Knot as Kayla ("The Lion and the Rose")
Anton Lesser as Qyburn ("Two Swords")
Michael McElhatton as Lord Roose Bolton ("The Lion and the Rose")
Sara Dylan as a handmaiden ("Two Swords")
Tara Fitzgerald as Queen Selyse Baratheon ("The Lion and the Rose")
Charlotte Hope as Myranda ("The Lion and the Rose")
Andy Kellegher as Polliver ("Two Swords")
24.79.36.79 (talk) 15:49, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

  • Besides which the intro credits aren't always accurate, for example, a direct and very relevant example,
    the fifth episode of season four Conleth Hill as Lord Varys was not credited, but did appear.
    24.79.36.79 (talk) 15:57, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Dont recall him, what scene was he in?--☾Loriendrew☽ (talk) 16:46, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Billing is not minimal, and is one of the suggested methods of listing cast. See WP:CASTLIST. Please be cautious in how you comment on other people's opinions during a discussion.--☾Loriendrew☽ (talk) 15:47, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Billing is minimal, because it is only one of several suggested methods of listing cast. See WP:CASTLIST. Please be cautious in not referring to other people's opinions as Wikipedia Policy. 24.79.36.79 (talk) 16:17, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
You have just switched into edit-warring and improper behavior status. Mimic/copying back is not constructive to a discussion.--☾Loriendrew☽ (talk) 16:46, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

RFC: Bias editing needs monitoring?[edit]

Can someone who is not as biased as this editor keep an eye on this article? 24.79.32.243 (talk) 15:17, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Another example of you are totally deceiving people here, manipulating ideas, and generally acting like this your personal territory, without bothering to follow the rules you quote, I just randomly picked an episode and checked the credits and you were missing one of the names on the list. After all this time you don't have a main character on the list of characters that has been in all FOUR seasons, 24 EPISODES, of house Stark, a major house in the show (if you need to be told that you are the wrong person to edit here), this is the kind of deceptive editing I'm dealing with here:
Tenth episode of season two was my test episode because I was curious to see if Wren Ros Elliot-Sloan was in the credits and after going through the list of names I spotted the TENTH name shown in the opening credits, missing all this time from the list of characters a major character in the show, Bran Stark played by Isaac Hempstead-Wright. He even has his own article page and you can't be bothered to have him on the list because you obviously think you are "king of the castle" here? 24.79.32.243 (talk) 15:13, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

I have removed the RfC template because this appears to be a dispute by a user against himself. If I am incorrect, feel free to put back the template. Arfæst Ealdwrítere (talk) 23:24, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Pronunciations[edit]

There are a few problems with the pronunciations, aside from the fact that the HBO source is written as a schwaless form of respelling and we've turned it into IPA (that's our house style, after all):

  • The pronunciation of Arya's name is simply wrong: the canonical pronunciation on that list is ARE-yuh (i.e., 'ɑɹjə). For what it's worth, that's also GRRM's pronunciation, as well. Kindly revert any attempts to restore it as the popular but incorrect AR-ee-uh (i.e., 'ɑɹɪə).
  • Hodor is (inexplicably) wrong: it's given as HO-dor (ɔɹ), not HOD-er (əɹ).
  • Similarly, Dænerys and Viserys's surname is simply wrong: the canonical pronunciation on that list is Tar-GAIR-ee-in (i.e., tɑɹ'gɛəɹiɪn or tɑɹ'gɛəɹiən) and pointedly not tɑɹˈɡɛərɪən with a short I or -een diphthong.
  • Qotho isn't accurate. They did end up reading most -q- names in Essos as hard Ks but the guide we're using lists its QUO-tho: 'kwoʊθoʊ; RP might shade that to 'kʷəʊθəʊ but not 'qɔθo. Until we find another reliable source, we can include it as is or omit it, but we can't just change it to something entirely different.
  • Unless the Dothraki are Scottish, Drogo's name is DRO-go ('dɹoʊɡoʊ), not IPA /dɾoɡo/. (Granted that HBO's KHAL can be taken as /xæl/ even though it was probably intended as something closer to /kʰæl/.)
  • Theon's name is given as THEE-on (i.e., θiːɒn) and not as THEE-un (ˈθiːən). The page tries to excuse that by saying it was "transcribed... according to Received Pronunciation rules" but RP also employs -ɒ for "o". Turning it into a schwa is simply an exercise in OR. Ditto Rickon. Ditto Janos. Ditto Jeor.
  • Ditto the change of Jorah and Jeor's surname from MORE-mont (i.e., 'mɔrmɒnt) into something like MORE-munt (i.e., mɔrmənt).
  • Meanwhile, Baratheon is written as Buh-RATH-ee-un (i.e., bə'ɹæθiən) but we've somehow inverted that and are using Theon's -on (-ɒn) instead.
  • Illyrio and Syrio are a little trickier. It's true that RP can shade long I into a short one; it's still OR to claim that's what HBO did. They clearly provide il-LEAR-ee-o and SEER-ee-o rather than the ih-LEER-ih-o and SEER-ih-o provided here. Tyrion is never even shaded: it's always with a long I (-ee-) by everyone involved, including our source material.
  • Barristan is given as BAIR-iss-tin. I'm not changing it now since it's close enough to go either way, but it's probably closer to ˈbæɹɪstɨn than ˈbæɹɪstən.
  • Lysa isn't wrong, but her name was formatted weirdly: She's not Spanish, so she's either Lysa Tully (per Wiki) or Lysa Arryn (per HBO). At most you could say Lysa Tully Arryn, but Lysa Arryn Tully reverses the order of which house she came from and which she entered through marriage.
  • Is there a good reason Tywin's surname is transcribed differently from his children's?
  • I don't want to blank content, but Melisandre's name is not on that list. Do we have another source for her using /-dɹeɪ/ as if it were written é, instead of /-dɹə/? or is this just "I think that's what Stannis sounds like he's saying" OR?
  • Minor point, but according to this page, our house style is to transcribe English's Rs as /r/ even though 'pure' IPA uses the character /ɹ/ unless it's rolled on the tongue.

IPA may look more "professional", but how do people feel about reverting to HBO's own house respellings to avoid the need some people apparently feel to "correct" them with Sean Bean or Richard Madden's accents? — LlywelynII 23:32, 8 May 2014 (UTC)


New section[edit]

Please someone help me to finish the new Beasts section. I'm new to this kind of editing and my english is not very good. I thought that there must be a beast section since the dragons and the direwolf are important in the show. I didn't add them to House Targaryen and House Stark because they're just SGI and not potrayed by actor. If there is anyone interested, please help. User talk:Rey Keshe — Preceding undated comment added 12:00, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

The Hound[edit]

What should the Hound's status be? Alive, deceased, or unknown? He didn't die on screen but they heavily imply (like in the books) that he will die of his injuries. In the books Brienne met someone who claimed to bury him, but I've learned in reading the books to be wary of third-party recording's of people's deaths and don't totally believe it until the person is actually shown dead. Emperor001 (talk) 02:23, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Technically unknown. Even if he is dead in the book this list is about the television series. Do not take into account anything from the future (the books), only go by what you have seen on screen.--☾Loriendrew☽ (talk) 04:04, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
I am aware. I merely made a comparison to how he actually was not shown dead in either one; just heavily implied. Emperor001 (talk) 21:07, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
I'd say go with unknown. As a hypothetical, let's say the show goes the same route next season that you described the books taking (third party info that he's dead) we can update the status to dead and still be able to change it if needed. What I'm getting at is that if it's revealed later on down the road that he was "alive the whole time" or whatever, we can always update. But for now, until we see his corpse or hear someone on the show claim to verify his death, unknown is probably best. Millahnna (talk) 21:19, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

WP:OR and MOS:FICTION already explain how Wikipedia deals wit these things. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:10, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

On status again...[edit]

Per WP:MOSFICT "Features often seen in an inappropriate, in-universe perspective include: Using past tense when discussing the plot or any of its elements (except backstory), rather than the historical present tense (my underlining)

And ... " the events within one work of fiction are always in the present whenever it is read, watched, or listened to. In-universe temporal designations such as "current" or "previous" are therefore inappropriate" (my underlining)

Under this perspective, and for this TV serier, yet again, (current) status is inappropriate. We get this problem every year, with every new TV series and then we remove it, revise it, etc.

Please do no re-enter it. Every character is dead or alive depending on which episode who are watching. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:22, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

A clue that the (current) status is also WP:OR is shown by the fact that same characters' status were marked as "unknown". So, all information comes from TV viewers and not from sources and/or critics. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:24, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Check lists like List of Heroes characters, List of Lost characters, List of Dexter characters, Characters of Supernatural, and many more. There is no such as "status". -- Magioladitis (talk) 17:29, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Check List of The Walking Dead characters not every list of characters has a Status section, but it doesn't mean that those who have are wrong. --User:91.237.56.65 20:15 27 June 2014

WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS is not a valid argument. Check policy and manual of style. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:07, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

You are using the same argument by saying it doesn't exists in some lists so lets delete it! Magioladitis you are removing a true information. Information found in tables is focused on usefulness to the reader. Instead of reading the text for the current status you can just read it on the side. --User:Rey Keshe 20:15 28 June 2014

That is does not exist in good list of characters is an additional argument. The main argument is that the "status" is nonsense and against MOS:FICTION. If someone watches the first episode right now is Ed Stark for him dead or alive? In any book about fiction: Is Ed Stark in books dead or alive? Do you think that the verb "is" make any sense for books, films? -- Magioladitis (talk) 17:59, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Another example that show that this is nonsense is the "Unknown" status for a fictional character. Please read WP:Original research. We are writing an encyclopaedia and we are not here to write unsourced stuff based on our beliefs and speculations. -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:02, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Isn't this supposed to show the curent status. I mean there are spoilers in the text too, how many season they appeard in, how many episodes they appeard in it's all a spoiler. And who goes to check the character story they are just starting to watch. If you are willing to deleting status section which was here for 4 years and leave the text below where its saying that the character is dead, then what is the point? -- Rey Keshe 21:08, 28 June 2014

This has nothing to do with spoilers. I think yo are affected by the fact that the show is still running. Please read MOS:FICTION#The_problem_with_in-universe_perspective: "Features often seen in an inappropriate, in-universe perspective include: Ordering works by their fictional chronology, rather than the actual order they were published." This is how we write articles in Wikipedia in contradiction to The Game of Thrones wikia page. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia and The Game of Thrones wikia page is just a fan page. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:31, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

These types of lists should not be written like some game show or sports event. You need to consider the long-term existence of the article, meaning what you present to the reader as if the work was already complete. This makes the "Status" column completely unnecessary. Explain in the text of the character's plot relevance if they have met their demise or not, but this shouldn't be broken out into a separate column. --MASEM (t) 13:03, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

No Maester Luwin?[edit]

?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.145.191.120 (talk) 11:40, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

RfC on Oathkeeper[edit]

There's an RS RfC on the Oathkeeper talk page concerning book chapter information and appropriate sourcing. Participation (and fresh voices) would be welcome. Darkfrog24 (talk) 05:15, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Merge "lifespan" and "main cast appearances"[edit]

Anyone have an idea how we could merge the "Character lifespan" and "Main cast appearances" tables into one? --Rayukk (talk) 09:44, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

- I removed it. Way too spoilery. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.24.223.41 (talk) 19:57, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Charts[edit]

I am not a viewer of this series but couldn't help but notice that these character charts are a complete mess. How can any editor know which characters will appear in season 5 (or which episodes) when it has yet to air? Not only is much of this unsourced speculation but it is just a damn ugly page. I wish the many editors who are fans of this series could get this article into better shape. Liz Read! Talk! 23:12, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

- I have to say I agree. I worked on this page a lot when it was first created, updating it, etc. But now it's just become a mess and I've given up correcting it, since people keep adding it again and again. There are two things weird and wrong that should be changed: 1. Character lifespans table: it is ridiculously spoilery, and just too big to be of any real use. 2. Somehow people have "guest starring" and "recurring" mixed up. If you look at the credits, there is no such thing as recurring. All non-main cast members are "guest starring", the only difference being that some of the actors are credited individually. I'm going to fix the mess one last time. If people want to change it again for some reason, I'm out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:F6E:E098:0:6C53:953E:31D3:20C4 (talk) 12:03, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi I agree the lifespans table was awful; took up way to much space and did not add anything to the current character table. I have to say though, some main characters are definitively listed as guest starring in their episodes (Diana Rigg, Donald Sumpter, Pedro Pascal). The importance of this billing is shown in the fact that three of these cast members have been promoted to main cast for series 5 (Michael Husiman, Diana Rigg, Indira Varma) and so it warrants inclusion on the character table. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.130.9.243 (talk) 14:32, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Concise[edit]

This page is far too long and we not possibly list all the munor characters in the show so unless they make it to the charts for supporting characters, hey would be hidden. WP: CONCISE.Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 18:16, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Even the descriptions for main characters are needlessly overlong... we don't need to have their whole life story for crying out loud. 202.36.179.107 (talk) 09:27, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Colors used on table[edit]

I edited the tables to include a more common color scheme, in addition to colors that serve better as a background. My edit was reverted and I see why, and I would like to propose a change that should serve as a compromise.

Current My edit Proposed usage
Starring Starring Starring
Also Starring Also Starring Also Starring
Guest Starring Guest Starring Guest Starring
Recurring Recurring Recurring
None None None

The colors for Main (Starring), guest and recurring roles have already been decided at the time that some templates were made, and deemed distinguishable. The "also starring" has not been established, so I had previously made a choice of the blue (Which I thought was fine) that I assume was the reason for the revert. I propose the yellow as an alternative. I am however open to alternatives.

The reasons I believe there should be change are:

  • Trying to use more commonly used colors to unify wikipedia, make pages similar from one to another
  • Getting rid of the current red color that is too dark for reference displays (notice the white boxes) and is nearly too dark for the text in the cells.
  • Correspondingly to above, using lighter background colors for cells that are both easier on the eyes and easier to see the text.

DLManiac (talk) 04:22, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Appearance table is now using the same templates that many other cast wikitables use. BSCD128 (talk) 04:20, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Cast tables and episode counts[edit]

Under no circumstances per WP:TVCAST are there to be episode counts for cast and characters. However I have no clue how the tables could be organised for starring, guest, recurring etc as blocks of pure colour may make it difficult to distinguish and/or unreadable between each character even with the key. Brocicle (talk) 17:07, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Why was the amount of appearances removed?[edit]

Why has the cast key for the number of episodes each character appeared in been removed? This should be put back in immediately. Displaying the amount of episodes each character appeared in is an interesting and helpful guide for fans. I know for a fact fans are interested in seeing who has appeared in the most episodes, how many episodes a character was in each season, and seeing how many episodes a character was in when he/she recurred vs when they had starring roles. I am not sure why the amount of episodes was taken out, but I strongly believe it should be put back in and would like to know why it was removed. I read the link from the previous section but still did not understand. Please put this back, it was cool. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Delfino319 (talkcontribs) 18:52, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

We are not a fan-based community, we do not include content simply because it's a "helpful guide". Episode counts are now deprecated per WP:TVCAST. But you already knew that, since you tried to remove it from the aforementioned guideline. Alex|The|Whovian? 22:32, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

BSCD's edits[edit]

Reposted from my (Star Garnet's) talk page:

"Edit War on GoT character list"

Regarding our edit war on List of Game of Thrones characters, most TV show cast pages now have the appearance table at the bottom as the table becomes too large (depending on the number of seasons) and takes away from the point of the article - descriptions of the cast. This information should precede the appearance table.

A 'recurring' appearance is appearing more than one time in a season while not being part of the main ensemble. If an actor/character only appears once in a season, they cannot be recurring - this makes it a 'guest' appearance.

I have updated the table to include lots of major recurring characters who were not on it before the edit. Please do not revert the table. This table and it's format is in line with other tv show wikitables. BSCD128 (talk) 05:25, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Which shows? There are very few comparable to GOT, and most that are (ST, etc.) don't have tables at all. When there are tables, they are almost always at the top, as they are generally a focal point of the article. This show has too many people with opinions on this show to have an arbitrary standard for who would qualify for the recurring table. Added to how ugly the table you mangled is, and your edits border on vandalism. Star Garnet (talk) 06:09, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
It isn't hard to decide who has a recurring role - it is quite simple - any actor who has appeared more than once in a season but is not part of the main cast. That's a recurring role, not much to debate about.
The table layout is exactly the same as it was before - not sure how it's 'ugly' or 'mangled' now. More content has been added - that's it.
Not sure how updating information on a table is considered vandalism.
I'm fine with leaving the table at the top of the page, but do not undo the updates to the table. Many major recurring characters have been added including updates for season six.
Which shows? Every one I can think of, except maybe Dexter. BSCD128 (talk) 06:27, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
I understand the logic of keeping the recurring cast on the table reserved for characters with more than nine appearances. I agree that the table was very big with all cast added to it. Question is: is it okay to have a large table with all characters in it? Also, should the current table be sorted alphabetically by the actor's last name per season? BSCD128 (talk) 07:50, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
If you want to have the guest performances in the chart, that seems fine, so long as it is defined above the table. I wouldn't have a problem with more characters being added, so long as it's an objective process, although I figure the list below it keeps track of that fairly well. The list below contains every named character credited at least twice, plus one-time credits for actors who have wp articles (plus Smalljon, since he will certainly be back). As for ordering, a quick survey of other articles would seem to indicate that ordering should be tailored to complexity of the show. 7th Heaven (list at top) has ordering by perceived importance of characters, 30 Rock (list at top) is like this article ordered by first season then last season, The 100 (list at bottom) is a combination of your method and 7th Heaven's, and Lost (list at top) is the same as this article. Star Garnet (talk) 08:19, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Just to add my voice to this discussion, I believe the current table's serve their purposes well. There is one for main cast, and one for recurring cast. Including recurring cast who have been in less that ten episodes would mean these tables swell to uncontrollable size, which is why there is a limit. However I do believe that cast members credited individually in the end credits (with the 'Guest Starring' qualifier) do require recognition as these characters are often more central to the plot, without being part of the main cast. --86.141.169.173 (talk) 11:39, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Just wanted to add that this isn't the first time BSCD128 has rearranged and added stuff without discussing via talk page nor listened when informed about guidelines. Anyway, In my opinion the cast list is crowded enough as it is. Not every character HAS to be mentioned per WP:TVCAST and WP:FICTION. All it does is make everything overcrowded and too complex to follow which this page already is. While we're on the topic of discussing characters. All the actors and characters listed by episode number have to be dealt with as episode counts aren't allower. All we have to do is work together and come to a solution that will best benefit the article as a whole because to be completely honest, the entire article needs a revamp. Brocicle (talk) 17:55, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

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Character Table[edit]

As per a message left on my talk page, I'm apparently supposed to discuss why I'm reverting edits back to how they originally were? How come the person who made the drastic and unnecessary changes to begin with was able to do it and get away with it without any consensus whatsoever? The current table looks a mess and is a massive step-down from what it used to be. 86.183.69.103 (talk) 15:21, 22 April 2017 (UTC)