Talk:List of Go terms
|WikiProject Go||(Rated B-class, High-importance)|
|The content of Tesuji was merged into List of Go terms on 3 December 2011. That page now redirects here. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see ; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.|
|The content of Yose was merged into List of Go terms on 28 January 2012. That page now redirects here. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see ; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.|
|The content of Hayago was merged into List of Go terms on 27 April 2015 (UTC). That page now redirects here. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see ; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.|
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- 1 Liberty (linked term not defined)
- 2 Less common terms
- 3 2007-02-7 Automated pywikipediabot message
- 4 Adding pronunciation guildlines
- 5 Sente/gote
- 6 Sound-poor?
- 7 Better translations
- 8 Tesuji
- 9 Korigatachi
- 10 Sons and Brothers
- 11 Merger proposal
- 12 TOC junk
- 13 Ko?!
- 14 Thickness
- 15 "Divine move" is probably not a Go term
- 16 suggestion
- 17 Aji
The term 'liberty' has a link to this same page, but there is no definition for it in this page. I can find the term defined in the external page linked to at the bottom.
Should this single definition be added? Should the several similar special terms be mentioned as being found in the external page? Shenme 05:27, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
Less common terms
I haven't seen/heard "kiai", "korigatachi", or "yosu-miru" much in English go books or conversation; these are almost always translated into English equivalents ("fighting spirit", "over-concentrated", "probe"), unlike the reset of the terms here. Would it make sense to either change the headlines of these sections to their English equivalents (as was done with "thickness"), or at least indicate that they're less common? Rictus 19:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
2007-02-7 Automated pywikipediabot message
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Adding pronunciation guildlines
I have never done this before but I thought that this particular page needed pronunciation guildlines to help us beginners with the foreign words in the article. Example: Aji (ah-gee) or is it (ay-gee)? Beautiful article nontheless. 126.96.36.199 02:32, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I removed some content with my previous edit.
"During a game, a player being in gote can gain sente by making a defensive move that not only nullifies the opponent's threat, but also attacks the opponent at the same time." Since I redefined sente/gote to refer to sequences this sentence becomes meaningless.
"comes up at the end of the game" Reverse sente has meaning throughout the game.
"Sente endgame moves allow the player with sente to go around the board whittling away at the opponent's territory. In this situation, a player who has used up his sente moves may look for a play that, while gote, prevents the opponent from making a sente endgame move." This is pure nonsense. A player should in general not prefer a one way sente over a larger reverse sente. This because his opponent will tenuki to play his sente, ref principle of mutual damage. The miai counting value of sente and reverse sente is the same. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Taemyr (talk • contribs) 13:36, 13 May 2007 (UTC).
- Well, yes. But miai values are not the whole truth, either. Charles Matthews 13:52, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
This section is starting to become a bit more than a discussion on the terms. I feel it might be better to switch Go_terms#Gote and Sente with Go_strategy_and_tactics#Sente_and_gote. Taemyr 16:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
There is a problem when I type "Sente" in the wikipedia search box. I come to this page, about Go, but did want to go to Sente (application). The solution would be a disambiguation page, that offers the choice: either Sente (the go term) or Sente (the application). Please do this in stead of the automatic redirection to Go. Thanks in advance!188.8.131.52 (talk) 09:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
This sentence on the page: "Both players will have sente on their turn, and the moves they are making are gote." looks very confusing in the context. It refers to players who have gote (due to the opponent's sente move), but are making sente moves. Do we want to fix it? Or is it just me who is not getting it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 22:19, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
What is a sound-poor language? Why can't I find anything about it on the internet? Maybe terms shouldn't be used when they are so esoteric and can't easily be researched.
- It's not an esoteric term. Japanese have fewer distinct sounds than most other languages. Taemyr 23:53, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
It might be good to offer a translation of "Atari", which means a hit or a strike. The same for "Dame", which means no good. Also, "Sente" is not "original hand", it is "before hand". "Original hand" would be "Gente" 元手.
This is often translated as "frozen shape" to be sure, but the verb koru （凝る） is more often used to mean "stiff" or "overdone". For example "korisugiru" （懲りすぎる） means to overdo (a design). In the context of go, korigatachi clearly means putting too many stones into an area, so we ought to be able to find a better translation than "frozen".BruceThomson (talk) 03:43, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Sons and Brothers
My Go program (qGo) uses the two terms 'sons' and 'brothers' prominently on the gui display. I don't know what they mean. Could anyone please add their definitions to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 23:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
These are not Go terms, but Computer Science terms. The reflect he underlying representation of the game. See Tree (data structure)/Tree (graph theory) for more details. Stuartyeates (talk) 08:08, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Currently they are little linked to and contains mainly secondary content, but it fits well withe the content of this page.Stuartyeates (talk) 08:03, 21 November 2008 (UTC) / Stuartyeates (talk) 23:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
- Support As the article stands now. It's a shame there is not more content in this page though. There are certainly sources enough on the subject to expand this into a proper article. Taemyr (talk) 07:00, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
- Support, I agree with Taemyr that it could merit a page on its own, but unless someone writes it, it is better to include it in this page for now. HermanHiddema (talk) 11:03, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose To an extent, I agree with above. However, of all the Go terms, Tesuji is the one that most merits a page on it's own. We could expand by giving some Tesuji examples (which I will look into). Green0eggs (talk) 15:00, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose While the term occurs in Hikaru no Go I do not believe it to be part of go jargon. The article should be deleted for lacking notability instead. Taemyr (talk) 07:00, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose, not common enough to be on this page, which only lists about 20-30 very common terms. I think deleting the content and linking to Hikaru no Go instead would be better, I've never seen the term used in any book outside Hikaru. HermanHiddema (talk) 11:02, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
- Support I support the merger and not the deletion. I'm pretty sure Divine move is a phrase used before, or at least outside of, Hikaru no Go. Should I be wrong (I'll look into it) then I would oppose and agree with HermanHiddema. Green0eggs (talk) 15:09, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support. Entire article is exclusively about the game term. -- P 1 9 9 • TALK 18:03, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
- Oppose Kami no itte is not a move. It's a perfect way to play. The game winning move is myoshu. --18.104.22.168 (talk) 14:18, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Surely the lack of anything about Ko is a major omission...
The notion is so difficult to grasp for the kyu players because it is usually explained as it is explained here. The terms outward influence and thickness are confused. Black in the diagram has an outward influence, but both white and black are thick. White more so, because one can't play a kikashi against white position, while a kikashi against black position has won a lot of games by establishing shicho breakers. --22.214.171.124 (talk) 14:54, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
- Thickness is really only interesting as a concept when it affects outward influence. When a group is shut in thickness considerations are subsumed in the life or death problem. In the example given whites thickness can be disregarded after you have accounted for the fact that white has 10pts of territory. Taemyr (talk) 14:06, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
"Divine move" is probably not a Go term
This section is deceiving. I think someone read the manga Hikaru no Go, made a Divine move article, and it got merged into List of Go terms. kami no itte ("divine move") appears to be basically coined by the manga itself. Of course it literally means "divine move" so it's not surprising if it was used SOMEWHERE before the manga, but it's not a specific Go term. Searching in Japanese/English, everything seems to point back to Hikaru no Go. -SpuriousQ (talk) 05:40, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
It would be nice when hovering over the board position it would highlight the term for that specific position. As far as I understand it this would be an Image map. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 15:50, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
The text says "The closest English one could use is 'latent potential.' " This strikes me as redundant, ugly, and pointless. "Taste" is accurate and meaningful.
Google Translate gives 潜在的な, senzai-teki-na for both "latent" and "potential." The noun "potential" translates as 電位, which merely moves the metaphor from the mouth to an electric wire, improving nothing.
The second sentence, "Bad aji is when dead stones or weaknesses in one's own formation carry a latent threat of compromising an existing area should the situation become ripe. " also strikes me as problematic. We have that superfluous "latent" again. A threat is a threat; a weakness is not a threat. It is a danger of being threatened. This may be what the writer wants to say, but it is not what is written here.
The last sentence, "Aji is different from a simple defect or weakness in that it can be exploited and/or repaired in multiple ways at multiple stages of the game and the best way or time is not immediately clear; hence the "aftertaste" metaphor" is at best idiosyncratic to the writer. I think it's plain wrong. Still, different people look at things differently. "Bad aji" and some "aftertaste metaphor" also seem to me personal to the article's writer. A Google search on "後味, 囲碁" brings up numerous references to feeling bad after losing, but nothing resembling what the article's writer seems to be reaching for, plausible though it be.
In the same vein, the distinction made seems to me false. All defects and weaknesses can be exploited or repaired at any time, hence a major part of the art of Go is the weighing of the relative saliencies of a variety of threats and weaknesses.
The word "taste" retains the air of savouring these relativities.
"Taste" is the correct translation.