Talk:List of Presidents of the United States

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Former featured listList of Presidents of the United States is a former featured list. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page and why it was removed. If it has improved again to featured list standard, you may renominate the article to become a featured list.
Article milestones
June 15, 2005Featured list candidatePromoted
October 30, 2008Featured list removal candidateDemoted
June 26, 2009Featured list candidateNot promoted
Current status: Former featured list
Frequently asked questions (FAQ)
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General Concerns and Questions

Requested move 20 May 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. On the one hand, grammar suggests we lower-case it, and WP indeed generally prefers lower-casing in general. Nevertheless, on the other hand, many people mentioned that sources often capitalize "President of the United States" even in running text, that other, similar articles are capitalized (like the Vice President), and that leaving it uncapitalized would lead to confusion (isn't the president of Walmart a "president of the United States?"). Too many good, well-informed Wikipedians argued too many good, well-informed arguments to realistically reach consensus. I defy anyone to look at this and disagree. I recommend to the next requester (in six months or so, whenever it may seem appropriate) to propose moving this page AND the List of Vice Presidents of the United States page in a single move request. That would at least solve the WP:CONSISTENCY argument, at least within the United States. (non-admin closure) Red Slash 09:49, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

List of Presidents of the United StatesList of presidents of the United States – Following a move request, with no consensus to move the page, I suggest moving this title to no capitalization. Some of the page titles in this template are capitalized and some are not. I think either all of the pages should be capitalized or all pages not capitalized. The Manual of Style suggests not capitalizing job titles.. 2601:183:101:58D0:8592:D6D7:134D:F46E (talk) 20:55, 20 May 2018 (UTC) --Relisted. slakrtalk / 02:26, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

  • Support, per WP:JOBTITLES. Any style guide will tell you to lower case job titles. Yet they are capitalized all over Wikipedia. Here is a description of Chicago Manual style. Nine Zulu queens (talk) 21:27, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Support per above. In this case, "Presidents" is not a proper noun. Corky 21:31, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Support per above. HandsomeFella (talk) 09:48, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose – there should be a 'page move' request at List of Vice Presidents of the United States & other US political office lists, too. Otherwise, moving this article would put it out of sync with the others. GoodDay (talk) 09:59, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose - “President of the United States” is like “Queen of England”. The formal title of a head of state should be capitalized. I agree that we tend to over capitalize the word “president” (for example we should not capitalize in the generic “List of presidents of Fortune 500 companies”), but we should not over-decapitalize in reaction. An overwhelming number of sources capitalize “President of the United States”... so should we. Blueboar (talk) 10:25, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
    • "Offices, titles, and positions such as president...are common nouns and therefore should be in lower case," per WP:JOBTITLES. Even in the most overcapitalized style, you would not capitalize the plural form of a job title. Nine Zulu queens (talk) 02:14, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose - these attempts to de-capitalize everything here, just because of the C.M.o.S. are getting ridiculous. POTUS is an official/formal title that should be capitalized. When used, it always refers to either a specific man and/or the specific office, therefore it's never generic. The de-capitalization of that VP article noted above, and any other related articles is incorrect and should be rectified immediately, per BOLD and IAR, no RM or consensus required. - theWOLFchild 16:00, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Note: This same move request was previously requested and the result was "No move". FYI - theWOLFchild 19:02, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
    • Nonsense. It's a generic list; each of these presidents of the United State held the office of President of the United States. Each item in the list is specific, but the list title is the generic. Dicklyon (talk) 14:37, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
No... a generic list would be List of presidents (a list of all presidents everywhere). This is a list of people who held a specific office (ie President of the United States). Blueboar (talk) 10:48, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
Nobody is arguing with that fact, Blueboar. The argument is whether or not "presidents" (plural) should be capitalized. There is no such office as "Presidents of the United States" is there? Of course not, so "presidents" is a common noun and should not be capitalized. The correct venue for changing that is the talk page of the style guideline, not here in a RM discussion.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  15:33, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
Um... I was directly responding to Dick’s Statement that he thinks it is generic, and thus should be de-capitalized. My contention is that it IS plural, but NOT generic... and that the capitalization of the specific title carries forward when pluralized. Blueboar (talk) 16:35, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
So your opinion is that the "Presidents" in Presidents of the United States is a proper noun? Why? What could possibly make it correct to view "presidents" in this case as any but a common noun that should be lowercased? If this is just your opinion, then I can understand; however, it does go against the guideline and community consensus to place common nouns in lowercase as in "presidents", doesn't it?  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  18:28, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
No, my opinion is that the entire string "President of the United States" is a proper noun phrase, and the capitalization of that noun phrase is retained when writing it in the plural ("Presidents of the United States"). Similar to how the plural of "Ellsworth" is "Ellsworths" (not "ellsworths") Blueboar (talk) 13:51, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose This is ridiculous, President of the United States is an official title of an office, and should be capitalised. Besides, it's an established precedent on Wikipedia. AvRand (talk) 15:48, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose per reasons stated on Talk:Living_presidents_and_vice_presidents_of_the_United_States. עם ישראל חי (talk) 16:12, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Support per MOS:JOBTITLES and MOS:CAPS. There is no reason to capitalize "president" and it is important to follow our internal guidelines and regulations. -- Millionsandbillions (talk) 19:39, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment: Please keep in mind that this isn't simply just a job title, this also refers the Office of the President of the United States, which is also, always capitalized. - theWOLFchild 20:16, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
    So, you're saying you haven't actually looked at sources on this? It's very often not capitalized, contrary to what you want us to keep in mind. Dicklyon (talk) 14:36, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
    I didn't say that, you did. I said: Please keep in mind that this isn't simply just a job title, this also refers the Office of the President of the United States, which is also, always capitalized, (which has nothing to do with the "sources" you've posted). - theWOLFchild 11:45, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose - AFAIK, most sources use the capitalized version. GoodDay (talk) 21:28, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Support – We should abide by our house style, viz. WP:MOS. Some users claim "established precedent on Wikipedia" but I don't see that either: we have List of kings of Babylon, List of kings of Sparta, List of queens of Denmark (pointing to List of Danish monarchs), List of Queens of France (pointing to List of French consorts) and List of Presidents of France (in which President is overcapitalized throughout the article). Wikipedia usage is inconsistent at best. Some other editors claim that an "overwhelming number of sources" use the capitalized form, but I have seen no empirical data to support this assertion. I am not saying that MOS should be unduly worshipped, but that it provides adequate project-wide guidance that should apply when there is no clear-cut consensus in real-world usage. Finally, people who argue that we should capitalize because POTUS is an official title should read WP:OFFICIALNAMES. — JFG talk 06:26, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Support – President should be capped when part of a proper name, but it's not that here. Our style guide and many others agree. Dicklyon (talk) 02:23, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Support—it's simple: it's not a proper name here. The plural, to begin with, rules that out. Per JFG and Dicklyon. Tony (talk) 03:00, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
Re: a proper name no longer being a proper name simply because it is in the plural... I have to disagree... let’s say we are writing about a prominent political family: “After leaving the White House, the Clintons moved to New York”.. Surely we would not change “Clintons” to lowercase just because it is plural? Blueboar (talk) 11:08, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
Of course not: that's a personal name. The University of Chicago vs the top three universities in Michigan. Tony (talk) 15:22, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
Not the same thing. Whether the title is about a man or the men, it still always refers to the Office of POTUS at the same time, and therefore should always be capitalized. This comment below about "overcapitalization" does not apply here. If anything, this is a case of overdecapitalization. - wolf 15:44, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
It's not "generic" when it refers to a specific Office. Not sure how people seem to keep missing the that. - wolf 22:33, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Support. President of the United States is the proper name of an office, yes, but that office can only be held by one person at a time. The plural "presidents" can thus only be a common noun, and the Manual of Style clearly advises against capitalizing common nouns. Surtsicna (talk) 22:46, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Unnecessary and redundant. Bold and Brash (talk) 21:05, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
Can you clarify your rationale? What is "redundant" about a choice of capitalization? — JFG talk 11:59, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Support per above, "presidents" as plural referring to multiple people should be written in lower caps. "President" should be used to refer to a certain president. See also President of the United States which uses "presidents" throughout the article when referring to multiple officeholders. That is, afaict, in line with what most sources use (e.g. NYT, WaPo). Regards SoWhy 12:34, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

FWIW, the multiple page move requests at List of Vice Presidents of the United States and various other federal offices lists, has resulted in No move. GoodDay (talk) 10:21, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

That's WP:OTHERSTUFF, and consensus can change a request for mass-move that was perhaps "too much to swallow" to get any consensus. — JFG talk 11:08, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
But it's very funny that we have a List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair. 718smiley.svgJFG talk 11:13, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
what's funnier is that Truman is on it because he didn't shave for a couple days in november of '48 עם ישראל חי (talk) 14:30, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

(break 1)[edit]

This should not be done on a per article basis. There are now 3 open RM's on the same MOS point. As Number 57 points out at this open discussion List of Prime Ministers of Israel, there are numerous featured lists that don't follow this proposed style (including List of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom Seraphim System (talk) 16:28, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
To repeat what I have said above (and at the Israel RM)... Yes, we do not capitalize in List of presidents or List of prime ministers, because the singular "president" and “prime minister” are NOT a specific titles in those contexts, the terms are generic (referring to any president or any prime minister). So... we retain the non-capitalization of the singular when we pluralize. However, the titles President of the United States, Prime Minister of Israel or Prime Minister of the United Kingdom ARE specific (NOT generic)... they are capitalized in the singular. So... we should retain the capitalization of the singular when we pluralize. Blueboar (talk) 16:57, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, but without substantiation in the form of reliable sources, a style guide that says that when a title is plural and refers to more than one holder of any office, then it should retain its proper-noun status. Please show something to back up this your assertion.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  19:07, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
It would be the same guide that says the plural of the name Smith is Smiths (not "smiths"), or that the plural of Ellsworth is Ellsworths (not "ellsworths")… Blueboar (talk) 16:55, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
Show such a guide that equates the names of people with titles and offices, then. That is what you are doing. You are attempting to elevate office titles to the level of personal names, and that's apples and oranges in my opinion. When we talk about presidents, kings, queens, prime ministers and such, we must differentiate between their offices and mere descriptions of their offices. Makes me wonder how many Secretaries you have. :>)  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  01:13, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
Would look ridicules, to have this article at List of presidents of the United States, while we've got List of Vice Presidents of the United States. GoodDay (talk) 17:26, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
Which is why I have asked the closer of that RM to reconsider, overturn and rename the list.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  18:31, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose per reasons outlined in the Vice Presidents discussion. Basically, this move is misguided both as a matter of Actual Usage, as well as on "proper English" grounds. For the first, it is trivial to find reliable sources wherein "President of the United States" is routinely capitalized in-line in a sentence. Clearly usage suggests that the capital form is fine. For the second, "List of lower-case p presidents of the United States" means a list of any ol' presidents - company presidents, school board presidents, club presidents, whatever. Capitalizing "P" means it's That Kind of President, and changes the sense of "of the United States". Also, even if it's considered a draw, the capitalized form is the long-standing title, so there should be a Good Reason to overcome inertia and move it IMO. (Also, side note, this is intended for humor value not as a serious point, but here is the current officeholder's feelings on the issue .) SnowFire (talk) 02:52, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
  • The phrase "list of presidents of the United States" is a bit different from "list of presidents in the United States". The first phrase is not ambiguous as you suggest it is. You confuse it with the second phrase, I think.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  04:14, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
In practice, you are correct that in 99.8% of contexts, such a phrase will really refer to a list of POTUSs, because the group of presidents-in-general isn't a very interesting one. However, it doesn't technically have to be. "List of otters of the United States" clearly means "American otters" and is nearly synonymous with " the...", "List of Otters of the United States" clearly refers to some kind of special Otter that's being listed. In this case, we want to refer to a special type of president that is a proper noun, that of POTUS, so a capital makes that clear (Proper noun#English capitalization_of proper_nouns for more). SnowFire (talk) 05:08, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
Hail to the Otter-in-Chief! 👏👏👏
JFG talk 15:11, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
Interestingly, if you n-gram “the US presidents” vs “the US Presidents”, the results flip... which I think is right. Blueboar (talk) 01:57, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment. The gist of this as I see it is whether or not "presidents" when made plural is (a) still a part of the office title and should be uppercased, or (b) a description of the title and should be lowercased. And that is something that applies to a good many article titles on Wikipedia. So we have to agree to put RMs like this on hold until the argument is resolved in a centralized location, so that all incorrect titles can be fixed.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  01:20, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
I would agree with that. Blueboar (talk) 01:35, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
  • SupportMOS:JOBTITLES and this is a style matter, so however much "Presidents of the" appears vs. "presidents of the" is irrelevant. We regularly change capitalization and other style formatting to match WP:MOS and this case should be no different. —Joeyconnick (talk) 05:40, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
    But MOS:JOBTITLES was just changed on 26 June, both as to where that redirect points, and the content of the page it now points to. Station1 (talk) 06:24, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
    It's funny how often people go on and on about the MOS; "We must follow the MOS!!", but don't realize just how often, easily and arbitrarily the MOS is changed. - theWOLFchild 09:11, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
Yup... if we don’t like what the MOS says, we can change it. In fact, we often change it to reflect the results of RMs like this one. Blueboar (talk) 10:54, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
"RMs" implies that some changes were supported by a consensus somewhere, but sometimes there's not even that. - wolf 11:26, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
You have that backwards... since the office is held by one person at a time, the office can only BE singular... but since former office holders continue to be referred to by the title, the title can be plural. Blueboar (talk) 10:15, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
Good point. Former US Presidents continue to be referred to as "Mr. President" for life. While some sources (such as outdated guidebooks on manners) claim this shouldn't be so, it in fact is, (which is supported by other sources such as major media outlets). Even in plural form, this isn't a list of generic presidential positions, with corporations, etc., etc, but list of specific office holders... an office that is always capitalized, which shouldn't change just because were listing two of them instead of one. - theWOLFchild 11:26, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose, President of the United States when used in either the singular or plural form is a proper name in the English language, and the "P" in President or Presidents should be capitalized in either case.--TommyBoy (talk) 19:51, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
    Um. No. In the plural, presidents cannot be, and is not, a "proper name". The New York Times had a good article on capitalization that you may find useful [37].--regentspark (comment) 22:00, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
Um... are you saying that a proper name can not be plural? If so, then why is the plural of the proper name Smith (ie Smiths) capitalized? Blueboar (talk) 22:26, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
Proper names are names given to people, places or organizations. If we had a term for the collection that represents the presidents of the United States, then that term would, properly, be capitalized. That's not the case here where we're merely using the plural form of president which is neither a person, nor a place, nor an organization. As the NYT article I link to above states, people break the capitalization rules for emphasis (which is fine if that's the intention) but that doesn't make it grammatically correct. --regentspark (comment) 22:41, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
Are you saying that “President of the United States” isn’t a proper name? If not, why is it capitalized? Blueboar (talk) 22:51, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
List of Proper Names of the United States. /end debate. - theWOLFchild 23:16, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
Unfortunately that does not answer my question... I am not asking whether the word "president" is a proper name (sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't)... I am asking if the entire title "President of the United States" qualifies as a proper name? Blueboar (talk) 00:04, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

(break 2)[edit]

  • Point of interest, the United States Marine Band has been known as "The President's Own" since 1801. This is another point for the term being a proper noun. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:32, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Not seein' it, Randy, since there is a difference between a plural (presidents) and a possessive (president's). Moreover, such usage will often establish the diff between a common or proper noun. In normal running text it would be "The President's Own", rather than "the president's own", because that is the informal title given to the band. "(List of) presidents of (whatever)" is not and has never been any kind of office nor title, not formal nor informal. In these cases "presidents", "vice presidents", "prime ministers", "queens", etc., are all descriptors, common nouns and noun phrases that according to Wikipedia's MOS should be lowercased.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  16:10, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
  • I'm "seein' it", Paine. What's the difference between plural or possessive here? In neither case is it referring to a specific President, nor is it the lead word, yet it is capitalized. There is no difference between that title and this one. - theWOLFchild 16:43, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.


To Randy Kryn and Thewolfchild: still don't see it, as I see a good deal of difference between a commonly used alternative (nick) name for a band or other popular entity, and an office title, the capitalization of which is determined by whether or not it is used descriptively or as a direct part of an office title. As a direct part of an office title, such as in "President of the Can of Worms", the short title "President" is capitalized. When the title is descriptive, such as in "the president", "Let's list all the presidents of the Can of Worms," and so on, then "president" and "presidents" should, to be grammatically correct and in line with Wikipedia's MOS, remain in lowercase. There is no such office title as "Presidents of the United States".  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  20:54, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

The RM is closed. let it go already. - theWOLFchild 21:14, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
I am at a loss to understand why so many editors think that this title should be capitalized. I used to blame this kind of thing on WP:JOBTITLES. But that guideline has been rewritten so that it is much clearer now. In this title, presidents is plural, so it clearly refers to a group of individuals rather than to an office. Perhaps it is respect capitalization, like writing God instead of god. Or perhaps they are unduly influenced by the abbreviation POTUS. (I should add that the examples the guideline gives for "President of the United States" and "King of France and Navarre" are still wrong. Both examples should be lower cased since they refer to a person rather than to an office.) Nine Zulu queens (talk) 08:56, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
Read the “keep” comments in the RM the and you will find out why we think it should be capitalized. Happy to discuss further in another venue... but give it a rest here. Blueboar (talk) 10:52, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
To Thewolfchild: the RM is closed, yes, however your question was answered and the issue is still quite open, so it won't be "let go" by any of us. There is still the confusing "whether or not?" question that needs to be answered, and it was not resolved with a no consensus close of this RM!  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  13:48, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
Yes, well... feel free to bring all that up six months from now like the closing admin suggested. Or not. Either way, please stop pinging me. This page is on my watchlist, I'll see when the next RM gets posted, (Jan? Feb? 2019...) - theWOLFchild 14:49, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
As you wish, Thewolfchild; however, this issue should not be settled with a new RM in six months. It applies to several misnamed pages on Wikipedia and will require a discussion of a broader nature in a centralized location.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  18:32, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
When the time comes for a centralized discussion, please let us know. For now, I think it best to let things lie dormant for a while. Blueboar (talk) 20:24, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
The time has come and no amount of ostriching can change that. There will continue to be editors who want to move articles like this one and List of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom to their decapped forms, and articles like List of presidents of the United States by military rank to their uppercased forms. There are many examples of each style of titling. This issue will only become dormant when there is consistency in titling.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  04:09, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
...or when people learn to wp:Drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass. - theWOLFchild 23:07, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
That was a really poorly reasoned close, though I'm not sure it's useful to get into why in much detail. The two salients points are that whether people off-WP are doing this or that is irrelevant; we have our own style guide, and it is quite clear on the matter. Secondarily, it's not the closer's job to present new pro and con arguments, like their theory that the president of Walmart is also a "president of the United States" (which is grammatically and semantically wrong in the first place; that would be a president in the United States, but no native speaker of English would put it that way). I could go on, but that's sufficient.  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  09:49, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Trump portrait[edit]

Does anyone else think that the crop on the Trump portrait is too tight? Obama's seems a little too tight too. Most of the other presidential portraits seem to be a wider angle. The uncropped originals seem a little too far, but maybe we could do a new crop somewhere in between. Trump and Obama's portraits seem too "in your face" to me. Rreagan007 (talk) 17:24, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

There was a recent RfC here (about a month ago, see archive #11) about the portraits. The consensus was both in favor of the current list, and in favour of requiring further consensus to make any changes. FYI - theWOLFchild 20:30, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
Agree: Trump and Obama are cropped too tight, and this list would be well-served by an intermediate setting. On the other hand, Gerald Ford could you some closer focus. @Thewolfchild: Note that Rreagan007 is doing the right thing by laying out his proposed change here, we'll see if consensus emerges. — JFG talk 01:02, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
@JFG: I didn't say he wasn't "doing the right thing". As for the cropped images, you'll see from my comment here that I basically agree. - theWOLFchild 01:13, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
Sounds good, thx. — JFG talk 01:37, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
I don't think so, but that is just my opinion. I tried zooming Trump's picture out, but was reverted by Foghe on May 2. Corky 02:20, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
Can you clarify? Do you support the current closeups, the zoomed-out originals, or something in between? — JFG talk 02:37, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
I'm neutral on Trump's portrait. I think it's fine, but I won't oppose it being zoomed out just a smidge. Obama's is fine. Corky 02:44, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
After further thought, I believe Trump's cropped version is fine. If it had a darker background, I think zooming out would be fine, but right now I see it as a contrast issue. Corky 23:49, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Cropped images[edit]

This issue is now being discussed at Wikipedia talk: Manual of Style/Images#Cropped images FYI - theWOLFchild 23:11, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

John Quincy Adams portrait[edit]

I believe the current portrait for John Quincy Adams is inferior in comparison to the other Presidents on this list and should be replaced, I nominate this one as painted by George Caleb Bingham from 1844 as a suitable replacement.

George Caleb Bingham - John Quincy Adams - Google Art Project (cropped).jpg

Thoughts? Bold and Brash (talk) 12:19, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

  • Oppose - sorry, but don't see this as an improvement at all. - theWOLFchild 15:35, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
John Quincy Adams cropped.jpg
It focuses on his chest and up in the same aspect as the other Presidents, while the current one is a full body shot. Here's the current image as reference. Bold and Brash (talk) 17:23, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
The current one (not "full body" btw), is the better portrait. It shows more detail and is more realistic. The recent infatuation that some users seem to have with zooming in on the subjects faces aside, this particular suggestion looks like it's been airbrushed to hide his wrinkles, like for a magazine cover or something. Its looks rather silly, especially in comparison to other image. (imho) - theWOLFchild 00:16, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Its from the original painting which didn't have wrinkles tho. I don't know if its an "infatuation" per se, but I sure would be apart of it since zooming on the face better identifies the individual for the reader, the current image has Adams's face very blurry due to it not being the core focus of the painting. Bold and Brash (talk) 10:23, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Well, like I've said to others; the great thing about Wikipedia is that it's not a book, you can tap on an image and enlarge it as much as you like. Zoom right in on the pores of his nose if you want... - theWOLFchild 20:02, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Jackson and Adam Jr. both have photos of each other[edit]

Why is there paintings in their section? AHC300 (talk) 20:51, 13 September 2018 (UTC)