Talk:List of Wales international footballers (alphabetical)
|WikiProject Wales||(Rated List-class, Low-importance)|
|WikiProject Football||(Rated List-class, Low-importance)|
How to treat Ireland(s) in the list
I wondered if you'd given much thought to what to call Ireland/Northern Ireland when you were doing the English version. Ireland national football team (1882–1950) is a useful page and would lead to the suggestion that it should say Ireland up until 1950 officially although the 'ROI' was active prior to then. I see there are references to Northern Ireland between the wars in the English version, so did you feel it best to use 'Ireland national' from start to 1920, then N Ireland for its continuation and Republic of Ireland since 1950? Eldumpo (talk) 17:27, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- In deciding which "Ireland" to list I went with the Englandstats website, which lists matches up to 1920 as Ireland, then Northern Ireland, with matches against the Republic of Ireland starting in 1946. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:42, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
- It's quite a messy/sensitive situation I know. I don't want to use englandstats as the basis for the Welsh so I think I will go with 'Northern Ireland' from 07/03/51 onwards, although I see various sources use various start dates, but it's not clear whether that's for convenience or reporting how the team was actually referred. I don't feel that strongly about it, will maybe look to rationalise/add some extra notes at the end! Regards Eldumpo (talk) 11:40, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
I have asked Kosack for his views on the matter. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 21:53, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
- I don't have much prior knowledge on the situation but the Ireland team page states that the IFA was still fielding teams with players from both sides of the border up until the 1950 British Home Championship so, based on that, I'd be more inclined to use Eldumpo's idea of using Northern Ireland from the March 1951 game onwards. However, like I said, this is just my opinion after a quick read through on a few pages so perhaps its worth opening up a discussion at WP:Football in the hope of reaching a better conclusion? Kosack (talk) 22:54, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
- Although both my reference books and the RSSSF website all refer to the matches between April 1921 and March 1950 as being against "Northern Ireland", I decided to change them on the list to "Ireland" in order to be consistent with the British Home Championship article(s), although these rather perversely refer to the BHC matches as still involving "Ireland" right up to 1970 (even though they actually are linked to the Northern Ireland national football team), so I am still just as confused. No wonder politicians have struggled to resolve the Irish question! Still, as far as the matter in hand is concerned, I think all three of us are in agreement, that we go with the WFDA website so that the first match between Wales and Northern Ireland was on 7 March 1951. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 05:46, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
- Definitely "Davis" - see Google search for "Walter Otto Davis". Not to be confused with Walter Davies (footballer) (known as "Darky") who made one international appearance against Ireland on 9 Feb 1884. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 05:30, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
As a a little diversion, I've put some statistics together. (The numbers may be one or two out but they show reasonably well where we are.) According to my books, a total of 674 have played for Wales of which 381 have articles on Wikipedia (or at least they are listed in the Category:Wales international footballers). At present, the list contains 540 names so we are about 80% done. Keep up the good work. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 07:35, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
- Hopefully the list is now complete with all
674675 shown; there are still only 386 articles in the Category:Wales international footballers so there's a lot of work to be done to turn all the redlinks blue.--Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:32, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
There should only be one link to each opponent which should be on the first time the opponent is mentioned, so there's work to be done on linking/unlinking. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:32, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for checking and changing, though I have shortened his redlink as there seem to be no others on wiki. Eldumpo (talk) 21:16, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
- I hate to disagree with you guys on this, but both my reference books list him as "Davies" as does the summary of the England match in which he played.. The "Who's Who of Welsh International Soccer Players" (incidentally co-authored by Gareth M. Davies) says "His surname is given as "Davis" in most reference books". www.allfootballers.com (Michael Joyce's website) gives his name as "Davis" which agrees with Rothmans.--Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:43, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
His date of birth is also different: both books have 11 August 1949, whereas you have 11 July (which is what www.allfootballers.com says). As at this stage, we have different equally reliable sources saying different things, I have added a note to the list explaining the differences. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:43, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Robert and Bob Roberts'
I'm having some trouble associated with the various Robert/Bob Roberts of the 1880s/90s. The 'Bob Roberts' in our list is shown as having 2 caps when the Rothmans lists him with 3 (he is just referred to as 'R Roberts' in there) - the 3rd being 7/02/1891 v Ireland. However, I am finding a disrepancy between Rothmans and WFDA for this game. Rothmans have 2 R Roberts listed - players from 'Wrexham' and 'Rhos' which I think corresponds with the players marked as 'Bob' and 'born 1865' respectively from our list. WFDA appears to leave out the Wrexham Roberts and includes Jack Bowdler, but when I add the appearances of Bowdler in the Rothmans lineups I do get 5 caps for him.
In addition, both Rothmans and WFDA show our 'Bob' as the 1st-listed player on 12/3/1887 thus suggesting he was the keeper which doesn't tie with his other appearances, although perhaps that is just explained by a lack of alternative keeper for the game, and maybe that happened occasionally in those days? For extra confusion, Joyce has our 'born 1864' Roberts as known as 'Bob' and the '1865' only known by initial 'R'! The other two R Roberts were not playing for FL clubs.Eldumpo (talk) 12:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
- My two books are more or less in agreement on the following:
- Robert Roberts (footballer born 1864) Druids/Bolton Wing half Games 9 Goals 1
Scotland 29 03 1884 (Scored)
Scotland 21 03 1887
England 04 02 1888
Scotland 10 03 1888
England 23 02 1889
Scotland 15 04 1889
Scotland 22 03 1890
Ireland 27 02 1892
Scotland 26 03 1892
- Bob Roberts (footballer born 1863) Wrexham Full back Games 2 Goals 0
Ireland 27 02 1886
Ireland 12 03 1887
- Robert Roberts (footballer born 1865) Rhos/Crewe Outside left Games 2 Goals 0
Ireland 07 02 1891
England 13 03 1893
- Robert Lee Roberts Chester Fullback Games 1 Goals 0
Ireland 08 02 1890
- The only difference is who score in the Ireland 07 02 1891 match, although I would go with the WFDA on this i.e. neither of them. Cheers --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 14:29, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for response. Firstly, there is an error in what I put above. J Bowdler only has 4 appearances when I tally the Rothmans line-ups, so perhaps that does point to a straight Rothmans error and that they should have Bowdler listed Feb 1891 rather than the 'Wrexham' Roberts? They have the scorer for both goals as W Lewis. The Wrexham Roberts is however listed as number 2 in the line-up and thus if Bowdler is a straight replacement for him in the line-up then he's not in his usual position. It still means 'Wrexham's' 2nd cap was potentially as an out of position goalkeeper. Eldumpo (talk) 16:04, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
It seems that many of the players listed on this page are linked, but do not have pages. If pages were to be made for them, that would be great, but otherwise red links should be removed from the page. Thanks! EWikistTalk 18:49, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
- Cobblers. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:12, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
- What Daemonic Kangaroo was no doubt trying to concisely convey was " per WP:REDLINK, as these players are inherently notable per subject specific criteria, currently WP:NFOOTBALL, a redlink is appropriate as an article should be created for the subject". --ClubOranjeT 09:28, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
This list article should be moved back to List of Wales international footballers over redirect per WP:NAMINGCRITERIA (Conciseness) as this is now a sortable list and the only complete list as far as I can tell. --ClubOranjeT 09:28, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
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