Talk:List of circulating currencies

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Featured listList of circulating currencies is a featured list, which means it has been identified as one of the best lists produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.
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List by currency, not county[edit]

Can there be a version of this list that shows a list of currencies and what countries use them rather than a list showing countries and what currency they use? (talk) 00:24, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

There is another list at List of currencies, except this list includes both current and historic currencies. – Zntrip 05:11, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, if that had circulating only, that'd be good. How about "List of circulating currencies by country"? (talk) 22:07, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't think it's necessary to rename the article. – Zntrip 22:16, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
It is necessary because this list has clear criteria that bans circulating currencies that are not issued by a government.--HowardStrong (talk) 23:51, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
The table now sorts properly by name of currency. See § Sorting the table by "Currency". --Thnidu (talk) 07:09, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Mils versus Dimes[edit]

Note D groups Mils with Dime which can be misleading. I initially interpreted note D as meaning Zimbabwe had subdivided US$ into 1000 mils since unofficially adopting that currency. Adding that 10 cents is Dime in USA is both irrelevant and confusing to the note and the whole article. Many countries have names for various of their coins. Tiddy (talk) 02:33, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it's confusing, but how do you think it should be changed? – Zntrip 02:46, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi Zntrip. I notice the whole layout has been completely changed since my original comments. Other notes have been added giving individual examples of mils and any fractional units divided further into 10 mils. Obviously my previous comments did not relate to this revised layout.

Note D now only appears against countries which use the US dollar so why retain the reference to mils? Tiddy (talk) 02:42, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

The United States dollar is divided into dimes, cents, and mils; that is why all three are mentioned. – Zntrip 02:44, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Sortable table[edit]

I tried to make the table sortable (so you could list the countries by currency, for example), but the whole thing fell apart. And all I did was write "sortable" in front of "wikitable"... So, do we want the table to be sortable, and what was the problem?--Mátyás (talk) 10:10, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the problem is that for some countries there are multiple currencies (i.e. there's a rowspan="2" for the first column which messes up the second table when it's sorted). I'm not too sure how to fix it, but I would imagine that it's possible. It would be nice for the table to be sortable. – Zntrip 19:15, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

List non-sovereign entities under sovereign countries[edit]

Wouldn't it be better to list non-sovereign entities under the main countries? For example, the BES Islands are part of the Netherlands, but each is listed separately in the table. Pafelikaru (talk) 13:12, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

The BES should be under the Netherlands entry then. Outback the koala (talk) 21:23, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I would suggest a restructuring of the table on these lines:
China, People's Republic of: Chinese yuan, Hong Kong dollar [Hong Kong], Macanese pataca [Macau]
Netherlands, Kingdom of: Euro, US dollar [BES Islands], Aruban florin [Aruba], Netherlands Antilles Guilder [Curaçao, Sint Maarten]
Alternatively, a new article could be created "List of circulating currencies by sovereign countries". Pafelikaru (talk) 05:40, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

This list was never a list of ALL circulating currencies[edit]

A general title of "List of circulating currencies." is clearly inaccurate. To claim it is, is not neutral. Now, this is a list of circulating currencies within national/sovereign borders. The title should reflect that, thus the change to "List of circulating currencies by country".

The consensus is Wikipedia needs to be a neutral, objective place.--HowardStrong (talk) 23:40, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

If somebody wants to create a list of ALL circulating currencies, they can. This page however is not that. It has specific criteria that would otherwise be subjectively applied under its original name. --HowardStrong (talk) 23:46, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I object to this move. No discussion has been made about it, nor has requested moves been used. I also disagree with the reasoning. It is entirely reasonable to exclude private scrip under the original title, as private scrips are not part of the common definition of the word "currency". Furthermore, several examples on this list are not countries, therefore, the current title is misleading. Therefore, I am moving this article back. If you want it moved, use our requested moves procedure. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 02:15, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

use of italics?[edit]

Why are italics sometimes used for the country names? Is it because of defacto currency status? If so, the notes or table introduction should explain. – S. Rich (talk) 20:42, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the fix. – S. Rich (talk) 21:07, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing it out. – Zntrip 21:08, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
For whatever reason, Ascension Island was still italicized. I took the italics out. --Thnidu (talk) 20:03, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

North Korea[edit]

North Korea is officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, and sometimes get hot under the collar (well, by its standards mildly warm) about the name. (As they see it, being called _North_ is acknowledgement that it isn’t the government of the South.)

However, I don’t know the correct name for the currency. JDAWiseman (talk) 12:20, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with the name as it appears in the list. – Zntrip 23:18, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Stop. Edit. Warring![edit]

Re [1] [2].

To make sense of this, it helps to have about the same history that Volunteer Marek was talking about. They posted this comment 18:07, 13 November 2013 (UTC). The latest history change before that was 16:35, 13 November 2013‎, by 2Awwsome, whose username now is evidently . --Thnidu (talk) 03:29, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Look. I'm getting tired of your disruptive behavior, here and on several other articles. With respect to this particular issue:

The AfD suggested merging/redirecting but the main suggestion was to leave a short note, not the whole freakin' table.

You really really really really need to read WP:OR. Just because there's a citation added at the end *does not* mean it's not original research. The good folks who wrote WP:OR even spell this out explicitly and bold the relevant parts for you:

"To demonstrate that you are not adding OR, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented"

Can you please read that? I'm getting sick and tired of asking you.

Neither the link to some random exchange rate website, nor the "sources" at the end of the "Least valued currency unit" are directly related to the concept of a "least/highest valued currency unit" nor do they directly support the text. For the sources to be relevant they have to be about the concept of a "highest/least valued currency unit". All you got here is just websites which quote exchange rates and a bunch of irrelevant websites. And as was shown at the AfD *there are no sources* for "highest/least valued currency unit", most likely because such concepts are meaningless and stupid.

So when you say in your edit summary " it can't be original research if the sources explicitly say it" you are either making stuff up or you don't know what the word "explicitly" means.

As to the argument that I'm removing it only per WP:IDONTLIKEIT, that's nonsense too. Of course, I don't like it, it's junk material that has no place in an encyclopedia. But I am not removing it per "I don't like it" (however I feel about it), I'm removing it per WP:NOR, which is one of Wikipedia pillars.

Finally, please stop referring to other editors edits as "vandalism" when they clearly are not.

More generally, you really need to cut it out with the disruptive behavior, the edit warring and the revenge reverting.  Volunteer Marek  18:07, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

It's not original research if it's sourced. You really need to read policies. The sources directly support the material. Now go vandalise some other wiki. 2AwwsomeTell me where I screwed up. See where I screwed up 18:24, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
The claim, "it's not original research if it's sourced" displays a fundamental misunderstanding of WP:NOR. No original research means that, even if there are sources for a given point, you can't use them to produce something fundamentally new - which is precisely what this table is. The source does not order currencies by value of the base unit. Calling the edit vandalism is far from appropriate and could be taken as a personal attack. I support Volunteer Marek's wording and oppose 2Awwsome's. Kahastok talk 19:49, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
I think that this article is a completely inappropriate place to add this information. This is a list of currencies, plain and simple. This information is completely outside of the scope of the list. If we want to make a not about what the most valuable currency is, that can be done on the individual article for that specific currency. – Zntrip 21:45, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
One suggestion on the AFD page I saw some consensus for was to add exchange information as one or more additional columns on this article. Then a person interested in "most/least value" can sort the currencies by their exchange rates in USD and/or EUR. The exchange information would not always be up to date, however. Breadblade (talk) 21:54, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
The biggest problem, as you pointed out, is that there would be no practical way to keep that information up to date. Someone would have to update a lot of information at regular intervals to make sure that the list is accurate. I think a simpler solution would be to have a link or two in the external link section to currency conversion sites. – Zntrip 02:36, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Agree with Zntrip and Kahastok. The only viable and relevant suggestion at the AfD was to just make a short mention that the Kuwaiti dinar trades for more currency units than any other unit (this isn't exactly true, the Kuwaiti dinar is subdivided into 1000 units rather than a hundred, so it's "sort of" like comparing the 10 $ bill to the dinar). I left a note in the article to that effect but removed the table overall. More generally an encyclopedia shouldn't be in business of providing information on volatile and ever changing prices. We don't have lists of stock market quotes, and there's no reason to have the prices of currencies either. Volunteer Marek  05:04, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
That sounds agreeable to me. A lot of people who were arguing that these statistics are important and useful were really just arguing that is useful, since everything in the merged article could be found there. Breadblade (talk) 14:45, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
I added a source, so now it's definitely not OR, and that means that there is now no valid reason to delete the entry for the highest. 2AwwsomeTell me where I screwed up. See where I screwed up 19:11, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
Is that the most reputable and trustworthy source out there that talks about this? Breadblade (talk) 21:23, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
That's not a reliable source but just a Wikipedia mirror. Volunteer Marek  21:58, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
That's not a mirror, look at the formatting. and the page is different. 2AwwsomeTell me where I screwed up. See where I screwed up 16:02, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
Sigh. Yes, yes it is. That page went up April 2012. The exact same wording was present in the Wikipedia article as early as 2010 [3] if not long before. The stupid mirror page copied a stupid Wikipedia article. It's not a reliable source. Volunteer Marek  12:33, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
You obviously don't know what a mirror site is. 2AwwsomeTell me where I screwed up. See where I screwed up 19:35, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Mirror or no mirror it's not a reliable source. Regardless, all of that is beside the point because there isn't even consensus to include information on exchange rates and currency value in this article. – Zntrip 20:16, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
2Awwsome, my opposition to the inclusion of the information is that it is outside of the scope of the list. This article is a list of currencies that are currently circulated as legal tender. Information about the relative value of currencies is outside the scope of the list and is not easy to maintain. Can you make a case as to why it should be included? Simply having sources for information is not the same as a reason for including the information. – Zntrip 19:19, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
The AfD said merge, not delete and redirect. I will be forced to re-add it to the original page unless you stop removing it. 2AwwsomeTell me where I screwed up. See where I screwed up 19:25, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
The outcome of the AfD does not mean that the content is just copy and pasted to this page to remain here in perpetuity. All article content is subject to the consensus of the community. This talk page exists for formulating consensus, of which there is currently none with regard to the inclusion of information relating to currency value. If you think there is a good reason for including that information, please explain it here. – Zntrip 19:40, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
Just to be clear, there *is* consensus for *not* including that information. That's not the same as *no consensus* for one way or the other. Volunteer Marek  21:57, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
No, that's not what the discussion said. It said MERGE and as I understand it, that means the info from both articles into one, into THIS article and not removing and deleting it. Also see at the top of this page! There is definitely NO consensus for deleting and removing all the information, except between you and yourself... --Maxl (talk) 22:01, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

List of least valued currency units?[edit]

Where did that list go and why is there a redirect to this list now? I cannot find any discussion about a deletion of the list of least valued currency units. And I believe it was an article that made sense. Who, er... took the liberty to delete all the info? --Maxl (talk) 21:48, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

ok, I found a deletion discussion now. However, the outcome was MERGE and not DELETE and REDIRECT. So why doesn't the info show up in this article? Did someone a trick to first attempt to merge the list and then to stealthily delete the info from this page? I think the informatiopn MUST be put back at least into this page if not the original article is to be restored. As far as I can tell from the deletion debate it was a single person who disliked the article and who pushed all this through. I don't think that's fair to other Wikipedians. Fancy enough, all the old edits in the former article which existed befor the redirect are gone, something that is definitely odd as it is not normally done. Something went wrong here, very wrong. --Maxl (talk) 21:57, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
So that's why I haven't been able to find it. Can someone please point me to the discussion about why it was deleted? Gecko G (talk) 00:47, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
You can see the deletion discussion here. The result of that discussion was "merge" to this article. However, the editors of this article, by consensus, did not merge any of the material (you can see the discussion in the preceding section on this talk page). Thus, the article is now a redirect. – Zntrip 04:09, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Zntrip, but that is the one for the Highest-valued currency unit page. However, I'm looking for the one on the lowest-valued currency unit. In particular I want to know what the problem was with the table showing what was the lowest valued currency base unit at different points in history. Gecko G (talk) 01:27, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
The discussion was for both lists. Right after the first nomination paragraph, it says, "I am also nominating the following related pages for obvious reasons: Least-valued currency unit". – Zntrip 03:55, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
Whatever non-pure-original-research material there was in the other article was merged into that one. Unfortunately that was pretty much nothing. Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:09, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

The Abkhazian apsar is NOT a circulating currency![edit]

The Abkhazian apsar is NOT a circulating currency at all. The Russian rouble circulates in Abkhazia, but the apsar is purely a medal-coin currency unit struck in gold & silver for sale to collectors in the numismatic community, just like the Krugerrand - ( (talk) 09:22, 8 March 2014 (UTC))

There is already a note in the list that clarified this. – Zntrip 21:36, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

List affiliated entities[edit]

I think it would be helpful to add the ISO 3166-1 entities which share the administrating jurisdiction's currency. Then this would be useful as a lookup table for the entire world. Otherwise, it's somewhat unclear whether a given entity shares the same currency or has just been forgotten. Not everyone knows which territories belong to which administrator, either. -- Beland (talk) 22:52, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

@Beland: I removed Template:incomplete, which goes on articles to label them as needing improvement, not on talk pages to say that "Hey, this comment is here to say part of the article's incomplete." --Thnidu (talk) 01:26, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
@Thnidu: I like putting Template:incomplete on talk pages so it doesn't mar the article for a minor request, but still puts it into the Category:Articles to be expanded system. But, since you didn't want it on the talk page, I added it to the article itself. -- Beland (talk) 01:32, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
@Beland: @Thnidu: I really don't want to escalate this, but I think it was highly inappropriate to add the tag to the article. While an editor may have a preference that the list be organized a certain way, the fact that it is not organized that way does make the list incomplete. – Zntrip 03:17, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Well, maybe this is better handled by wikidata anyway. [4] -- Beland (talk) 03:57, 25 August 2015 (UTC)


These "None"s make no sense (let alone cents or centavos):

Country or territory[1] Currency[1][2] Sign[3] ISO code[2] Fractional unit Number to basic
 East Timor United States dollar $ USD Cent[D] 100
None None None Centavo None
 Ecuador United States dollar $ USD Cent[D] 100
None None None Centavo None

According to the column headers, that means

Oh, by the way, besides the US dollar there also isn't another currency. This nonexistent currency has no sign or ISO code but does have a fractional unit called the centavo, which has no ratio to the basic unit.

What nonsense! Yes, it's explained in the notes, but try this instead:

 East Timor United States dollar $ USD Cent[D] 100
Local coins are also used for fractional denominations; one centavo = one U.S. cent.
 Ecuador United States dollar $ USD Cent[D] 100
Local coins are also used for fractional denominations; one centavo = one U.S. cent.

I'm putting a link to this Talk page section on the pages of the (five!) projects listed at the top here. {{ping}} me if you want to discuss it. --Thnidu (talk) 06:18, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

@Thnidu: I think your plan makes sense. Chris Troutman (talk) 06:42, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Chris. With your comment and a thanks from User:Jonpatterns, I'm boldly making the change.
BTW, I found it odd that the only two such entries in the table were adjacent; and while Ecuador is adjacent to Panama, I couldn't see why East Timor should use US currency, and I was suspicious. But I found reliable documentation on a UN peacekeeping mission page (2000) and the CIA World Factbook (March 25, 2014). --Thnidu (talk) 12:58, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
That make more sense now. it is curious that the only two countries listed as using cents and centavos begin with E. Jonpatterns (talk) 21:37, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

@Thnidu, Chris troutman, and Jonpatterns: Because the table is sortable, having a row that spans multiple columns creates some problems. What would you all think of the following format?

Country or territory Currency Sign ISO code Fractional unit Number to basic
 East Timor United States dollar $ USD Cent[D] 100
 Ecuador United States dollar $ USD Cent[D] 100

– Zntrip 22:17, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

@Zntrip, Chris troutman, and Jonpatterns: Very nice, Zntrip. I've just put it in, and it sorts just fine.
I've added a note ([N]) to these two, saying essentially what I had in the colspanning cell: "Local coins are also used for this fractional denomination. See the link on the name for details." It's kind to the user to have the basic information on the same page.
I've also replaced "None" with centered "(none)" throughout. This makes it easier to scan the table by eye for them.
Thanks, all, for your input! --Thnidu (talk) 02:09, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
  1. ^ a b "Field Listing: Exchange Rates". The World Factbook. Central Intelligence Agency. Retrieved 2013-12-06.
  2. ^ a b "Current currency & funds code list". Swiss Association for Standardization. Retrieved 2013-12-06.
  3. ^ Antweiler, Werner (2006). "Currencies of the World". University of British Columbia. Retrieved 2006-12-05.

Improve accuracy[edit]

Zntrip, this is my first time on what seems "your" page. I came here, since you changed the category classification on Bitcoin,with the edit summary: "Category:Circulating currencies contains only state-issued currencies". I dont see this piece of wisdom on your List of circulating currencies page. My feedback :

  • Add a (sourced) definition of "circulating currencies", i.e. as to what goes on this page.
  • When you say 'current', you need to insert "As of xx".
  • It s obvious, that virtual currencies are left out, here. It would help if you stated why.

Otherwise, you ought to expect reactions to your classification decision like "declared reason is completely irrelevant" from Ladislav. --Wuerzele (talk) 21:45, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

In the lead paragraph, there is a formulation: "... de facto currencies recognized as legal tender..." This formulation is self-contradicting, since any currency having the legal tender status is de jure currency, i.e., the opposite of de facto currency. This apparent inconsistency needs a correction. Ladislav Mecir (talk) 20:08, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

You're right, I've removed it. – Zntrip 01:07, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Pleonasm in the name of the article[edit]

According to the Currency article, the word "currency" means "circulating" in Latin. Therefore, "circulating currency" is a particularly ugly pleonasm, demonstrating poor knowledge of the terms. As such, it does not look appropriate as a part of the name of an encyclopedic article. Ladislav Mecir (talk) 08:55, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

If you have a better idea don't keep it to yourself. – Zntrip 16:51, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
I gave it a thought and since you are underlining that all the currencies in the list are legal tender, I would prefer something like "List of legal tender currencies", circulating being implied by the "currencies" word. Another, shorter, but equivalent-looking alternative might be "List of de jure currencies".Ladislav Mecir (talk) 18:19, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
The word "currency" does not imply "circulation" in the English language, even if the two have a common Latin root. There are currencies that don't circulate, such as those that are no longer in use. Regardless, I do like "List of legal tender currencies". – Zntrip 18:33, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
The word "currency" does not imply "circulation" in the English language - actually, that is not true. According to Wikipedia (see the Currency definition): "money in any form when in actual use or circulation". This excludes any former-, ex-, or historic currencies no longer functional as currencies. Ladislav Mecir (talk) 19:19, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
I think you are being too precise to the point of absurdity. The definition of any noun is usually articulated in such a way as to apply to a current state of existence. For example, a common definition of "person" is "a living human" and a common definition of "car" is "a wheeled, self-powered motor vehicle used for transporting passengers". It would not be a pleonasm to say "living person" or "working car", just as it would not be a pleonasm to say "circulating currency". – Zntrip 19:34, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
For example, a common definition of "person" is "a living human" - have to disagree. "Person" is defined as "human being". As opposed to that, "currency" is defined as "money ... when in actual use...", so there is a difference. I think that the accuracy of the article is lamentable, taking into account all the problems discussed. Wikipedia editors are not supposed to use new, unpublished terminology like "unit of exchange" (any citation?), "circulating currency" (any citation?), write whatever comes to mind like "de facto currency is legal tender", or write unpublished definitions like "we define circulating currency as legal tender" (which source?). I must also note that I did not read more than a couple of sentences, but my findings convince me that the accuracy of the article is not based on reliable sources. Ladislav Mecir (talk) 00:18, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
You are free to make edits to the article as you see fit. If something sounds stupid, go ahead and change it. However, the list does not claim that "circulating currencies" is a term of art or a technical phrase. "Circulating" is simply an adjective used to concisely describe the scope of the article. I already said that I do not object to renaming the article List of legal tender currencies. I simply stated that I object to your argument that "circulating currencies" is a pleonasm, because there are currencies that are no longer in circulation. – Zntrip 02:34, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

───────────────── Whatever the technical, formal definition of currency may specify when used by bankers, collectors, and lawyers, in everyday English the word carries none of the implication of "at the present time" that goes with the word current (or its adverb currently). Though the two clearly look related if one thinks about them, and in fact do have a common ancestry, to most native speakers of English neither word automatically suggests the other, and currency is just a formal word for "money in tangible form; medium of exchange". Thnidu (talk) 00:46, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Amount outstanding for each[edit]

It would be interesting to add a column showing the value of each currency outstanding in cash (or some similar metric, whatever sources commonly report), converted to international dollars or something standard. Or, we could make this a separate list. I was curious today which currencies are most widely used in practice, and this would be valuable information to have in the encyclopedia somewhere. -- Beland (talk) 00:04, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I've taken out the "incomplete" tag, which is intended to be used in articles, not on talk pages, as it reads
This section or list is incomplete. Please help to improve it, or discuss the issue on the talk page. [Boldface in original]
Note that such a list would require constant care and updating, especially if expressed in some conversion rather than units of the currency itself. See these two comments (Breadblade (21:54, 13 November 2013) and Zntrip (02:36, 14 November 2013)) above.
Speaking of which, I'd never heard of an "international dollar", so I googled it and found a WP article Geary–Khamis dollar. It begins
The Geary–Khamis dollar, more commonly known as the international dollar, is a hypothetical unit of currency that has the same purchasing power parity that the U.S. dollar had in the United States at a given point in time. It is widely used in economics.
International dollar redirects there. --Thnidu (talk) 07:14, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Criteria for inclusion[edit]

Can anyone please explain why exactly are "currencies used by non-state entities, like the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, scrips used by private entities, and other private and alternative currencies" excluded? Mrcatzilla (talk) 19:13, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

This is just a guess, but: Where would you draw the line? A car wash in my neighborhood puts out coupons that look like US currency at first glance. Would you count those? Nation-states and their dependencies form a reasonably well defined set, small enough to work with and maintain. --Thnidu (talk) 21:03, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
I would think a good cutoff would be a currency's market cap, so to speak - total value as expressed in, for instance, USD. The cutoff would still have to be some arbitrary number, true. I'd suggest $1 billion. Mrcatzilla (talk) 17:55, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Is it to keep the article from becoming a bitcoin circle jerk? If so, I'm all for it EditorInTheRye (talk) 22:58, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
I wouldn't count on that if I were you. A "market cap" criterion might at some point exclude the legal currency of some very small country while including something like bitcoins or some local private currency. I'm not saying that WP should ignore the latter two, but they should not be confused with legal tender. Let me quote the lede (emphasis added):
This list contains the 180 currencies recognized as legal tender in United Nations (UN) member states, UN observer states, partially recognized or unrecognized states, and their dependencies. Dependencies and unrecognized states are listed here only if another currency is used in their territory that is different from the one of the state that administers them or has jurisdiction over them.
This clearly defines the target topic of the article.
If other types of currency are to be described, it should be in (a) separate article/s, with See also or disambiguating hatnotes. If such articles are added, it might be appropriate to rename this one, of course with hatnotes &/or a DAB page. --Thnidu (talk) 01:13, 7 December 2014 (UTC)


Somehow Tokelau is missing from the list. Its article says New Zealand dollar (NZD), so why is it absent? Other NZ territories, Cook Islands and Niue, as well as UK territory Pitcairn Islands are listed with "New Zealand dollar". (talk) 09:39, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

From the article's introduction: Dependencies and unrecognized states are listed here only if another currency is used in their territory that is different from the one of the state that administers them or has jurisdiction over them. – Zntrip 18:33, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
Oh sorry, I did not see that Cook Islands and Niue have their own dollars also. I had arranged the table by the currency... (talk) 03:10, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Sorting the table by "Currency"[edit]

I was looking to see what countries (etc.) call their currency the ruble. Guess what? The table sort by Currency is useless for that, because all the "Currency" entries begin with a "State or Territory" name. Is there any way to make the sort refer to the actual name of the currency unit rather than the political unit that (because modifiers precede the noun in English) comes first in the cell?

If you would like to discuss this with me, please {{Ping}} me. Thnidu (talk) 09:06, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

@Thnidu: I see what you mean and I see how this is a problem. The best idea I have is to change the sorting for all the currencies. For example: "{{Sort|Dollar, United States|United States dollar}}" would still make the entry appear as "United States dollar", but make it sort as "Dollar, United States". – Zntrip 17:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
@Zntrip: Mph. Several hours' work at the least, though I can think of ways to speed it up, and best done in a sandbox, then pasted. Okay, thanks. I may well undertake it. --Thnidu (talk) 19:00, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
(memo to self: study Template:Sort)

It is useless, if you want to see that. But, there is List of currencies, which has the currencies just as wished. Though that list does not tell which are circulating and which not. (talk) 22:16, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

@ Take a look at the table now, and the discussion here since your comment. --Thnidu (talk) 19:22, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
@Zntrip: I've edited the table so Currency sorts by <name of currency>, <modifier>. The "name of currency" here is the last word in the text. "Modifier" is whatever precedes it, usually just the adjectival name of the State or territory, but sometimes something else.
  • Most often, that's "CFA" coming between "Central African" or "West African" and "franc"; these all sort first as "franc", then by the full modifier.
  • "Bosnia and Herzegovina convertible mark" sorts as "mark".
  • "Cuban convertible peso" sorts as "peso".
  • "Peruvian nuevo sol" sorts as "sol".
  • The euro is just a "euro".

All diacritized letters sort as their plain ASCII counterparts:
  • The Vietnamese đồng as "dong" instead of "đồng", which would come after all the Latin-1 letters.
  • The Faroese and Icelandic krónas as "krona", before "Swedish krona" instead of after it.
Comments? --Thnidu (talk) 07:07, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
PS: I've put a short note on the Talk page of each of the 5 wikiprojects named at the top of this page, briefly describing what I've done and pointing to this Talk section. --Thnidu (talk) 07:31, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
@Thnidu: Very nice work! The sorting system you used makes the most sense and works very well. I've made two minor corrections, but it all looks really good to me. – Zntrip 08:20, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
@Zntrip: Thank you! — I've also just fixed the last column, "number to basic", to sort numerically, using data-sort-type="number". I don't know how to get the order-of-magnitude separators in with that, though, so the cells that were 1,000 are now 1000 without the comma. --19:17, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

@Zntrip: I've applied the same method to "Fractional unit". I've also made "(none)" and "—" sort as null string (""), which sorts prior to anything else. --Thnidu (talk) 04:40, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

I didn't think it would be like this, but it is very good. Nice job! (talk) 05:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

@ (I don't know if you'll get this ping, but) thank you! --Thnidu (talk) 07:23, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

@Zntrip: I've added a note to the head of the section as an HTML comment. --Thnidu (talk) 16:38, 24 July 2015 (UTC)


Adding Crimea, which officially uses only the Russian ruble as of June 1, 2014. See

I found these sources in Crimea#References. I have checked them both, and they both say this clearly. To discuss this with me, please {{Ping}} me. --Thnidu (talk) 01:27, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

@Thnidu: I don't think Crimea should be a separate entry on the list. It is a disputed territory that uses the currency of the state which currently occupies it. I think a better solution would be to include the Russian ruble as a currency that circulates in Ukraine. A note can be included to say that the currency is only used in the parts occupied by Russia or pro-Russian separatists. – Zntrip 22:38, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
@Zntrip: Makes sense. Done. --Thnidu (talk) 04:14, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
@Thnidu: Looks good, thanks. – Zntrip 04:32, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
@Zntrip: YIKES! I just edited the table to get Ascension Island sorting right, and now the whole page is screwed up and I don't know why! I'm going to diff and see what I can do, and undo that last change if I can't figure it out. --Thnidu (talk) 04:43, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
@Zntrip: Whew! It's OK now. Must be something massively cockamamie with the Sort, Flag, or Flagicon template. --Thnidu (talk) 04:48, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

@ and Zntrip: I have undone the last two changes, which were made by this anonymous user (and were their only edits). The first has already been discussed; see above in this section. The second, apparently a good faith attempt to maintain the table, screwed it up. Please {{Ping}} me to discuss. --Thnidu (talk) 15:45, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Symbols: character vs. image[edit]

While it's a very good thing that Unicode is incorporating more currency symbols— Unicode Version 7.0, Currency Symbols now uses 30 codepoints (U20A0–U20BD) out of its 48 (U20A0–U20CF)— it's not safe to assume that everybody has fonts that support those characters. For example, Unicode 7.0, the first version to incorporate the Russian ruble sign, has been out for less than a year.

I noticed this problem just now, when I saw that the Abkhazian tenge symbol was represented on my screen by a "character unavailable" block with the hex digits 20B8. I'm changing that to the file image File:Kazakhstani tenge symbol.svg, at 9 pixel width: Kazakhstani tenge symbol.svg. --Thnidu (talk) 18:53, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Fractional units[edit]

@Zntrip: In your most recent edit here, reverting another editor's deletion of the Japanese sen, you said in the edit comment "fractional units are still used in finance and accounting". I agree entirely that we should list the sen, the US mill, and other purely notional fractions, but is that clear enough from the text?:

A currency is a kind of money and medium of exchange. Currency includes paper, cotton, or polymer banknotes and metal coins. States generally have a monopoly on the issuing of currency, although some states share currencies with other states. For the purposes of this list, only currencies that are legal tender, including those used in actual commerce or issued for commemorative purposes, are considered "circulating currencies".

ISTM that a reasonable reader could well conclude that we are only listing currency that exists physically, namely coins and notes. A close reading of the paragraph could lead to the correct conclusion, that we are making no such exclusion; but the very fact that it takes a close reading is enough to call for a clearer statement. --Thnidu (talk) 19:12, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

@Thnidu: I have to admit that my edit summary did not reflect my complete reasoning on the matter. It seems that the easiest approach is to include all fractional units, even those that exist only on paper. The only thing that matters is that the currency in question is legal tender; the fractional unit column simply tells a reader what a 1/100 of that unit is called. – Zntrip 03:22, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
@Zntrip: I've added a sentence to the Criteria § making it explicit that we are including non-physical fractional units defined by the regulating government. --Thnidu (talk) 11:23, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Bitcoin again[edit]

@JeffWiant: When you added Bitcoin into the table, you commented

Added Bitcoin as a circulating currency. Citing the as proof of widespread circulation around the globe (and growing volume.) It'd be great to have the formal BItcoin logo and "B" currency symbol added to this content. Thanks

This may seem like a good reason, and I assume you acted in good faith, but it does not meet the criteria that are plainly stated in the lead paragraph of the section (boldface added):

For the purposes of this list, only currencies that are legal tender, including those used in actual commerce or issued for commemorative purposes, are considered "circulating currencies". Currencies used by non-state entities, like the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, scrips used by private entities, and other private and alternative currencies are not under the purview of this list.

When an anonymous user removed it and explained why in the edit summary— "Remove Bitcoin, as it does not meet the page criteria" — you put it back, still ignoring the criteria and the user's comment. This time it's hard to suppose that you still weren't aware of the criteria.

This exact question has been discussed before. Please do not put Bitcoin back into the list. You are already on the edge of edit warring; don't step over the line. --Thnidu (talk) 00:38, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

@Thnidu: When my first edit (adding Bitcoin) was removed, I was never notified why it was removed. As such, I added it back in. Thanks for providing the explanation. What criteria is not met? Obviously Bitcoin is legal tender (the US Internal Revenue Service has guidance on how to pay taxes on its use), it's used in actual commerce (many companies use it for payment for goods or services), it isn't "used by non-state entities" only, and it isn't used only "by private entities". It's supported by many Governments, as evidenced by their allowing it to exist and be used for payments. I won't cross the line and add the edit back but if an opportunity exists to evaluate Bitcoin's inclusion in the list I formally ask that the discussion be held. Additionally (and more importantly) I ask that Wikipedia consider accepting Bitcoin for donations! I'll donate to Wikipedia (and try to get others to) if you decide to accept Bitcoin. Thanks and an enjoy your week! --JeffWiant 03:33, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

@JeffWiant: You're new to Wikipedia, so you may not have known about edit summaries. The explanation for its removal was in the summary of the edit that removed it.
You say "It's supported by many Governments, as evidenced by their allowing it to exist and be used for payments." But allowing it to exist and be used for payments doesn't constitutes legal recognition; the same could be said of store coupons. The IRS also requires that taxes be paid on income through barter, and specifies how it should be done
Bartering is the exchange of goods or services. Usually there is no exchange of cash. An example of bartering is a plumber exchanging plumbing services for the dental services of a dentist. You must include in gross income in the year of receipt the fair market valuof goods or services received from bartering.
— but that doesn't mean that plumbing services or dental services are legal tender.
And neither are "virtual currencies" such as Bitcoin. The IRS is clear about this (Notice 2014-21; emphasis added):
The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) is aware that “virtual currency” may be used to pay for goods or services, or held for investment. Virtual currency is a digital representation of value that functions as a medium of exchange, a unit of account, and/or a store of value. In some environments, it operates like “real” currency -- i.e., the coin and paper money of the United States or of any other country that is designated as legal tender, circulates, and is customarily used and accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance -- but it does not have legal tender status in any jurisdiction.
Virtual currency that has an equivalent value in real currency, or that acts as a substitute for real currency, is referred to as “convertible” virtual currency. Bitcoin is one example of a convertible virtual currency. Bitcoin can be digitally traded between users and can be purchased for, or exchanged into, U.S. dollars, Euros, and other real or virtual currencies.
And further down, in §4 (FAQ):
Q-1: How is virtual currency treated for federal tax purposes?
A-1: For federal tax purposes, virtual currency is treated as property. General tax principles applicable to property transactions apply to transactions using virtual currency.
Q-2: Is virtual currency treated as currency for purposes of determining whether a transaction results in foreign currency gain or loss under U.S. federal tax laws?
A-2: No. Under currently applicable law, virtual currency is not treated as currency that could generate foreign currency gain or loss for U.S. federal tax purposes.
Thanks for being cool-headed about this. :-) --Thnidu (talk) 02:10, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
@JeffWiant: On your two requests:
  1. ... if an opportunity exists to evaluate Bitcoin's inclusion in the list I formally ask that the discussion be held.
    This article is specifically about governmental currencies, as specified in § Criteria for inclusion. Virtual currencies, and Bitcoin specifically, have their own articles. If you think the title of this article is unclear, you can propose renaming (moving)it, via the Talk page and/or on the appropriate project pages (see the box at the top of this page).
  2. I ask that Wikipedia consider accepting Bitcoin for donations! I'll donate to Wikipedia (and try to get others to) if you decide to accept Bitcoin.
    I'm no one special here, just a Wikipedian like yourself, only more experienced. Ask about this at the Teahouse.
--Thnidu (talk) 14:08, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Tongan hau[edit]

I'm moving the note about the Tongan hau from the Fractional units column (on Seniti) to the Currency (main) column (on the Tongan paʻanga). It is not about a fractional unit but a multiple, whose name doesn't even appear in the table:

One hundred Tongan paʻanga equal one hau.

--Thnidu (talk) 01:05, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Indian rupee sign[edit]

An anonymous user ( removed the new Indian rupee sign from the table in the article for two states, India and Bhutan, replacing it with the Devanagari letter "र" (/r/) under India and leaving the cell blank for Bhutan.

DON'T DO THAT. This is the official sign for the Indian rupee:

The Indian rupee sign (sign: ; code: INR) is the currency sign for the Indian rupee, the official currency of India. Designed by D. Udaya Kumar, it was presented to the public by the Government of India on 15 July 2010, following its selection through an “open” competition among Indian residents. The symbol uses U+20B9 INDIAN RUPEE SIGN Unicode character. Before its adoption, the most commonly used symbols for the rupee were Rs, Re or, if the text was in an Indian language, an appropriate abbreviation in that language. The new sign relates solely to the Indian rupee; other countries that use a rupee, such as Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Nepal, still use the generic U+20A8 RUPEE SIGN character.
Indian rupee sign

And since the rupee used in Bhutan is also the Indian rupee, it should also have the same sign. --Thnidu (talk) 23:03, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Symbol for Kyrgyzstan som and Kazakhstan tenge[edit]

Answered for Kazakhstani tenge at Teahouse.

The table gives лв as the symbol for both the Kyrgyzstan som and the Kazakhstan tenge as well as for the Bulgarian lev. I consider the first two suspicious. лв consists of the Cyrillic letters "lv", neither of which is in the word "som" сом or "tenge" теңге; but it is the symbol for the Bulgarian lev, лев.

Here are some online references for лв as the symbol for one or both of these:

On the other hand, there are these (I've bolded all the Cyrillic and nothing else):

  • The official currency in Kyrgyzstan is the som (sometimes written as сом or abbreviated as с in Cyrillic). [1]
  • Hmm, even on the national bank website, I don't see the symbol [лв] being used. I guessed at http COLON SLASH SLASH shop DOT kg * being a Kyrgyzstani store, and lo and behold it is a store of sorts. One of the sites it links to actually uses сом for the symbol (the name of the currency in Kyrgyz), so I'm just going to go with that for now unless we can find a use with a symbol. Reference link here: http COLON SLASH SLASH danichkina DOT shop DOT kg/ *
    Thanks for posting! This fix will be in Drupal Commerce 1.3, which should be released on Wednesday. [2]
(* Masked because the domain has been blacklisted for phishing and malware. --Thnidu)

None of these are governmental official websites. I've tried the CIA Factbook; no luck. (Sigh.) To be continued. Please {{Ping}} me to discuss. --Thnidu (talk) 04:11, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Question asked on Talk pages for Wikiprojects Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Central Asia, and Finance. --Thnidu (talk) 04:27, 19 September 2015 (UTC)


  1. ^ "Kyrgyzstan (§ Buy)". Wikitravel. Archived from the original on 2015-09-05. Retrieved 19 September 2015.
  2. ^ rszrama (2012-05-08). "Drupal Commerce : Issues : Add the Kyrgyzstani som (KGS) currency". Drupal. Retrieved 19 September 2015.

How many currencies?[edit]

The lede says 180. Just now I sorted the table by name of currency and counted the different entries, ignoring the "(none)"s, and got 191.

Now of course it's easy to be off by a couple or three in counting a list on the order of 200, but I would swear that I wasn't off by eleven. I counted the footnoted ones and the ones that weren't linked. Maybe that made a difference, but there's nothing about it in the text. This needs to be clarified and corrected. -- (talk) 07:24, 4 October 2015 (UTC) Oops, this is thnidu.

Yes, really. --Thnidu (talk) 19:37, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

I just did my own count and got 180. Remember that there are a few currencies repeated only twice, like for India/Nepal, Singapore/Brunei (x2), Israel/Palestine, everything bordering Western Sahara, etc. – Zntrip 23:46, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Vietnamese dong[edit]

I will correct its fractional unit to (none) right away. We have stopped using "hào", "xu" or any fractional units since 1985. Centaur271188 (talk) 21:01, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Hmm, that doesn't seem to be in keeping with the practice on this page. Other discontinued fractional units are also listed on this article, for example, Japanese sen and Swedish öre. Then again, I wonder if it really makes sense to include any of these, at least not without a note saying something like "no longer in use". Heimstern Läufer (talk) 10:52, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Well, since this article is about circulating currencies, I prefer to describe their current conditions. We can say something about those fractional units in articles like List of historical currencies, Japanese yen or Swedish krona. Just suggesting :) Centaur271188 (talk) 19:08, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

"Strength of currencies" map[edit]

@Szqecs: I appreciate the work that must have gone into this map, but I don't think it should be here, for several reasons:

  1. There's been considerable discussion about having tables of most and least valued currencies, and the consensus is not to have them. See
    1. This article's talk page, section List of least valued currency units?.
    2. Same page, section Stop. Edit. Warring!
    3. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Highest-valued currency unit, the archived discussion of deleting the named article, which is referenced in item 1.1.
  2. Even if it were notable and not WP:OR (see the discussions referenced above), it would require regular monitoring to keep up to date. Which leads to...
  3. The file's talk page says:
    Strength of currencies relative to USD as of April 2016. For legend and edit instructions, see File talk:Strength of currencies.svg.
    That talk page gives the map's legend but no editing instructions.

Please {{Ping}} me to discuss. --Thnidu (talk) 04:21, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

@Thnidu: 1. The first discussion was merged because it wasn't notable enough to a separate page, this is an image not a page. The second was about original research. I didn't cite any sources, and I probably should. But this is definitely not OR, it's hard facts. All info-graphic maps on Wikipedia can be considered OR, but they're not. The last discussion is about another one that was merged. Again, it's a page not a map.

2. Yes the exchanges rates change all the time, but since the currencies are categorized into 16 bands, they won't change bands all the time. A lot of info on Wikipedia needs to be constantly updated anyway. Not to mention this map is intended to provide a rough idea of the value of different currencies, they don't need to be precisely in the right band. Canada and US are different colors and I can't even tell with the naked eye.

3. I thought it would be apparent how to edit it if one knew what rates correspond to what band, but I can add it if you want. This is no grounds to remove the map. Szqecs (talk) 05:08, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

You wrote:
  • I didn't cite any sources, and I probably should. But this is definitely not OR, it's hard facts.
You must provide sources. Anyone can say "It's not OR, it's hard facts", but "Hard references or it didn't happen!" See WP:VERIFY and WP:UNSOURCED.
  • Canada and US are different colors and I can't even tell with the naked eye.
Then sixteen shades of grey the same color are not very useful. If you want to keep the map up, use a more distinguishable set of colors. I ran a few web searches for "color code" and similar phrases. One of the hits from "Color scale" looks as though it could help you:,%20orange,%20deeppink,%20darkred%7Csteps=16%7Cbez=1%7CcoL=1
Actually, when I first went to it, it was set for nine steps, so I just tried changing the number to 16 and that's what I got. Try fiddling with the list of colors, too. And in any case the color-coding will be meaningless to the reader unless you include a legend.
It's customary to indent each comment on a talk page one level more than the comment it's replying to, using colons at the beginning of each paragraph, to make it easier to see the change of editor. You didn't indent your initial reply, so I'm just using one colon here. Please use two in your next reply. Thanks.
--Thnidu (talk) 18:05, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
@Thnidu: Since you're being a nazi here, I went ahead and read the rules on original research and guess what I found: WP:OI "Original images created by a Wikipedian are not considered original research, so long as they do not illustrate or introduce unpublished ideas or arguments". There you go. And why are you telling me all this? If you think it should be improved, go improve it. If you want others to improve it, write it in the discussion page. If you want it deleted, request a deletion. I have no obligation to spend more time on it just to make you happy. Szqecs (talk) 21:01, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
@Szqecs: Thnidu is not being a Nazi, he is simply voicing legitimate concerns about the quality of this article (also, I think you need to be reminded of Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy). Regardless of the quality of the map itself, I think the more pertinent issue is whether it belongs on this article at all. In that regard, I do not think this article is an appropriate place for this map because it is only tangentially related to the article's subject. Perhaps the map would be more suited to an article related to exchange rates? One that comes to mind is "currency pair". – Zntrip 00:59, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
@Thnidu: Fine, I removed it. Szqecs (talk) 01:38, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

ISO codes[edit]

Resolved, in my view. See Teahouse. --Thnidu (talk) 22:45, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
See also below. --Thnidu (talk) 03:53, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

@Normakku and Zntrip:

Recap: Comrades, the two of you have been edit-warring, or nearly so, over some ISO 4217 codes for currencies, with Normakku adding purported ISO codes and Zntrip reverting them; I won't try to list them all. But most of your₂ edits this month have been disputes over the validity or not of purported codes. (I must add that, apart from the continual re-re-reversion, you have both behaved with civility, with none of the various forms of bad and worse behavior that we see all too often.)

From the article's history page

Normakku's edits are in italics, Zntrip's in boldface, and unrelated ones underlined.

  • 21:01, 8 September 2016‎ Normakku . . (42,510 bytes) (-18)‎ . . (Undid revision 738309236 by Zntrip (talk),
  • (Two unrelated edits by me, Thnidu)
  • 04:31, 8 September 2016‎ Zntrip . . (42,367 bytes) (+18)‎ . . (Undid revision 738304839 by Normakku (talk); not an actual ISO code; please look at the source for the ISO codes column on this list)
  • 03:50, 8 September 2016‎ Normakku . . (42,349 bytes) (-18)‎ . . (
  • 20:57, 6 September 2016‎ Zntrip m . . (42,367 bytes) (-373)‎ . . (Undid revision 738052115 by Normakku (talk); that's not how ISO codes work; they are only assigned by the issuing agency)
  • 17:13, 6 September 2016‎ Normakku . . (42,740 bytes) (+373)‎ . .
  • (unrelated edit by third person, and Z's reversion of it)
  • 17:56, 4 September 2016‎ Zntrip m . . (42,088 bytes) (-60)‎ . . (→‎List of circulating currencies by state or territory: removing ISO 4217 codes that are not listed in the cited sourced at the top of the column)
  • 06:10, 4 September 2016‎ Normakku . . (42,148 bytes) (+138)‎ . . (See my edit on Somaliland shilling. Alternatively, see
  • 05:42, 4 September 2016‎ Normakku . . (42,010 bytes) (-18)‎ . . (See my edit on Tuvaluan dollar. Alternatively, see
  • 05:10, 4 September 2016‎ Normakku . . (42,028 bytes) (-10)‎ . . (Undid revision 737535809 by Zntrip (talk) There is an ISO 4217. See my edit on Sahrawi peseta.)
  • 05:08, 4 September 2016‎ Normakku . . (42,038 bytes) (+528)‎ . . (Undid revision 737644764 by Normakku (talk))
  • 05:05, 4 September 2016‎ Normakku . . (41,510 bytes) (-528)‎ . . (Undid revision 737535809 by Zntrip (talk) There is an ISO 4217. See my recent edit on Sahrawi peseta.)
  • 05:03, 4 September 2016‎ Normakku . . (42,038 bytes) (+518)‎ . .
  • 13:23, 3 September 2016‎ Zntrip m . . (41,520 bytes) (+10)‎ . . (Undid revision 737487710 by Normakku (talk); a Wikipedia article is not a valid source)
  • 04:01, 3 September 2016‎ Normakku . . (41,510 bytes) (-10)‎ . . (Undid revision 737468693 by Zntrip (talk) There is an ISO 4217. See Sahrawi peseta)
  • 00:43, 3 September 2016‎ Zntrip m . . (41,520 bytes) (-96)‎ . . (→‎List of circulating currencies by state or territory: no source for "pending" status of Niue dollar's ISO code)
  • 00:42, 3 September 2016‎ Zntrip m . . (41,616 bytes) (-3)‎ . . (→‎List of circulating currencies by state or territory: Vietnam format)
  • 00:40, 3 September 2016‎ Zntrip m . . (41,619 bytes) (+10)‎ . . (Undid revision 737448590 by Normakku (talk); there is no such code)
  • 21:37, 2 September 2016‎ Normakku . . (41,609 bytes) (+115)‎ . .
  • 21:15, 2 September 2016‎ Normakku . . (41,494 bytes) (-10)‎ . .

Debatables: In some cases Normakku asserts a source, though (often?) only in the edit summary, not as a reference, and Zntrip denies its official force, e.g.,

  • "that's not how ISO codes work; they are only assigned by the issuing agency"
  • "not an actual ISO code; please look at the source for the ISO codes column on this list"

Example: One of Normakku's unofficial sources,[1] from, begins

Listed below is every world currency along with their ISO 4217 Currency Code. The list includes some currencies (marked with an asterisk) that are not officially recognized by the ISO.

It includes "TVD — Tuvalu Dollar", without an asterisk. Well, that looks good.... but is not the issuing agency. According to ISO:[2]

What is ISO 4217?
ISO 4217 is the International Standard for currency codes. The most recent edition is ISO 4217:2015.
Maintaining ISO 4217
Periodically, amendments must be made to ISO 4217:2015 and these are managed by the Secretariat of the Maintenance Agency, in this case the SIX Interbank Clearing Ltd on behalf of the Swiss Association for Standardization, SNV.

Solution?: But wait a minute! We're talking about ISO 4217:2015. Here we are more than halfway through 2016, and what's happening with the ISO 4217? Look up there: "Periodically, amendments must be made to ISO 4217:2015". Well, we can't see the most current version of the list (and the last one was in 2008[3]) without paying for it, but surely subscribes and always has the latest version, and they seem to be pretty well regarded. In other words, comrades, here we have a reliable source that says[1]

TVD - Tuvaluan Dollar
Tuvalu, Dollar
The Tuvaluan Dollar is the currency of Tuvalu. The currency code for Dollars is TVD, and the currency symbol is $.

The morals:

Normakku: It's not enough to mention your source in the edit summary. You have to cite a reference in the article; is a good one, Wikipedia is not. That doesn't mean you have to ref it for each ISO code you add that isn't in ISO 4217:2015. It'll be sufficient to ref it once, in the header for the symbol column.
Zntrip: A reference doesn't have to cite The Official Fount and Origin of All Wisdom in the matter involved. There may well be others that are perfectly well qualified. And after all, ISO and its deputies, the SNV and SIX Interbank Clearing Ltd, are primary sources, while is a reliable secondary one.

Honored fellow editors, I hope you will now be able to put an end to your edit warring and furnish the article with up-to-date, well-referenced data on the ISO codes.

Please {{Ping}} me to discuss. --Thnidu (talk) 02:34, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

@Normakku and Thnidu: Thnidu, I appreciate your attempt to mediate this editing dispute and I invite Normakku to join the discussion. I've already reached out at Normakku's talk page, but have yet to hear anything. My position is rather simple. The ISO 4217 standard is promulgated by an organization, which has published the list on its website, so there can't be a real dispute as to whether an abbreviation is part of ISO 4217. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a primary source in this instance because no interpretation is necessary. Relying on a secondary source that unambiguously contradicts a primary source is simply unconscionable, in my view. – Zntrip 19:16, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
@Normakku and Thnidu: I think I've discovered a solution that we can all agree upon. I've simply added a note after "TVD" stating "This currency code is not part of the ISO 4217 standard, but is used commercially." This note is used elsewhere on the article. – Zntrip 20:00, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
@Normakku and Zntrip: That's good, that'll help. I think I've got something more, but it's not ready yet. --Thnidu (talk) 22:01, 13 September 2016 (UTC) --Thnidu (talk) 05:21, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
@Normakku and Zntrip: Relying on an up-to-date secondary source that is reliable and that unambiguously contradicts an out-of-date primary source is simply common sense, in my view. ISO 4217:2015 was indisputably the most reliable source for ISO 4217 codes when it came out, as was ISO 4217:2008 when it was first released. How many currencies became obsolete, how many were revised or redefined, how many were first issued in the following seven years? Surely a significant number, or why bother to issue ISO 4217:2015? And where was a reliable source to be found in 2014?
Even if there had been only one or two changes between the 2008 and 2015 editions (I tried to find a list, but couldn't), would have listed them almost as soon as ISO announced the change. WP:RS#Age matters cautions:
Be sure to check that older sources have not been superseded, especially if it is likely the new discoveries or developments have occurred in the last few years.
I am taking this question to the Teahouse. Please {{Ping}} me to discuss. --Thnidu (talk) 00:59, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
@Thnidu: I think there is a misunderstanding here. The International Organization for Standardization published the ISO 4217:2015 standard in 2015, but the standard is updated as necessary by a maintenance agency. In this case the maintenance agency is the Swiss Association for Standardization (see here). The most recent version of the standard can be found here and it was made on July 1, 2016. – Zntrip 01:12, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

@Normakku and Zntrip:: I've just written to as follows:
I've been looking all over your site (via Firefox on my mobile), and this is the only address I've found to contact you by. If you're not the right people to answer my question, please pass it along to whoever is.
Your page ISO 4217 Currency Codes says
Below, we list ISO 4217 codes for currencies in circulation, plus some (marked with an asterisk) that are not officially recognized by the ISO.
Your list includes "TVD | Tuvalu Dollar", with no asterisk. But ISO's own Current currency & funds code list, dated July 1, 2016), doesn't list anything for Tuvalu except the Australian dollar, AUS.
So my question is, Is TVD without an asterisk accurate or a typo? And if it's accurate, when did it become official under ISO 4217?
--Thnidu (talk) 03:23, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
@Normakku and Zntrip:: See current answer to my Q at Teahouse. --05:21, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
@Thnidu: Writing to XE is a good idea. I've taken another look at its ISO 4217 webpage and I now question its reliability. It appears to be out of date because it still lists the old code for the Belorussian ruble, which was redenominated on July 1 (the date the Swiss Association for Standardization updated its list). Also, as you can see here, the page has listed "TVD" since at least 2011, so this isn't some recent update. While XE may be a reliable source for exchange rates, I don't think the same can be said about its presentation of ISO 4217. – Zntrip 17:09, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

@Thnidu and Zntrip: I apologize for the late response; I had a busy schedule during the past few days.
In regard of Zntrip's position, I think that the idea to apply the note "This currency code is not part of the ISO 4217 standard, but is used commercially." to the "TVD" ISO code works temporarily with the format of this list. This proposition causes a few problems such as using the International Organization of Standardization and XE's ISO 4217 currency codes list as a reliable source. Three days ago, I wrote an email to the Secretariat of the Maintenance Agency (Swiss Association for Standardization or SIX Interbank Clearing) regarding the Tuvaluan dollar.
Excerpt from the email:
I am conducting academic research on international currencies, and I'd like to inquire about a number of circulating currencies and their respected ISO 4217 codes.
My first question is regarding the Tuvaluan dollar. I'd like to know if the Tuvaluan dollar has an assigned ISO 4217 code (i.e. TVD). According to the "Current currency & funds code list" published at "" (XLS and XML lists), the ISO code is instead the Australian Dollar (AUD). Can you please clarify - is there an official Tuvaluan dollar ISO 4217 code?
Secondly, can you confirm if the currency "Sahrawi peseta" has an ISO 4217 code of EHP?
Thank you for any assistance.
Kind regards,
They responded:
Dear Mr. ,
Thank you for your inquiry. The Tuvaluan dollar has no ISO 4217 currency code because the official currency of Tuvalu is the Australian dollar. The Tuvaluan dollar has been withdrawn from circulation around 1994.
The Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic is not a recognized state by the UN: therefore no currency code can be assigned.
Kind regards,
Secretariat of the Maintenance Agency for ISO 4217
c/o SIX Interbank Clearing Ltd
This email from the Secretariat of Maintenance Agency states that the Tuvaluan dollar has been withdrawn from circulation around 1994. On Tuvaluan dollar article it states "After the 1994 issue, Tuvaluan coins ceased to be produced and Australian coins sent in their stead. However, Tuvalu coins remain as legal tender and continue to circulate alongside Australian ones." (without a source).
Should the Tuvaluan dollar be included in this article? Emails are not considered a reliable source, and according to Wikipedia:Verifiability#Reliable_sources they are unpublished. – Normakku (talk) 03:01, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
@Normakku: 1) Life happens. 2) Excellent hunting! I recommend going to the Teahouse discussion of this question and asking advice of the mentors there. --Thnidu (talk) 03:53, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
@Normakku: Nice work Normakku. Perhaps a note stating that the Tuvaluan dollar only circulates as commemorative currency and not in actual transactions? We could easily find a source on some commemorative coin websites. A quick look on the web shows that Tuvaluan dollars are still being minted (i.e. 2016 Tuvalu 5-oz Silver Star Trek Enterprise High Relief Proof). – Zntrip 05:50, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

──────────────────── @Zntrip: "Not legal tender" is not the same as "not used in actual transactions" I wouldn't be surprised if the older Tuvaluan coinage is still used in everyday transactions, never mind whether government considers it "legal tender". (That is, not that we should ignore it but rather that the population considers it largely irrelevant.) --Thnidu (talk) 14:50, 15 September 2016 (UTC)


Zimbabwean Bond Notes.[edit]

Zimbabwean Bond Notes are in the process of being released. So far, a 2 Dollars Bond Note has been released, along with a bimetallic 1 Dollar Bond Coin.

The currency expressed is U.S. dollars. - ( (talk) 01:29, 7 December 2016 (UTC))

Inclusion Question[edit]

Why is "Akrotiri and Dhekelia" included if it uses the Euro? I can understand Andorra, I guess, since it's part of the UN, but why Akrotiri and Dhekelia or Bonaire? Did they have some sort of currency before that doesn't circulate but is related somehow? Cornelius (talk) 17:58, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

From the lead: "Dependencies and unrecognized states are listed here only if another currency is used in their territory that is different from the one of the state that administers them or has jurisdiction over them." – Zntrip 03:13, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
Oh ok, I see, thank you. I misunderstood that part. Cornelius (talk) 22:48, 15 March 2018 (UTC)


I was expecting a list of currencies with the countries where they are used, not a list of countries with their respective currencies...! (talk) 16:06, 14 August 2018 (UTC) User:

The list is sortable, just click the Currency column. Reywas92Talk 18:22, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, Reywas92. I've just found out that sorting is not available on my cell phone. No problem on my computer, though. (talk) 09:42, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Hong Kong Dollar HKD[edit]

HKD has larger notes than 100, you will see Banknotes of the Hong Kong dollar it has 500 and 1000HKD notes. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 19:45, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

The list doesn't say anything about banknotes. The "100" refers to how many fractional units (i.e. cents) there are to the primary unit (i.e. the dollar). – Zntrip 02:42, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Cabo Verde and Czechia are the current preferred names.[edit]

Cape Verde, the Czech Republic, Swaziland, and Macedonia have changed their short names over the last five years to Cabo Verde, Czechia (along the lines of the Slovak Republic --> Slovakia), Eswatini, and North Macedonia. Why only change only two of them? Do the others' main articles just need to be updated with their current names? Paploo (talk) 01:21, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

The article titles are considered the common English names for the countries on the encyclopedia. It is best to be consistent across all articles. – Zntrip 03:49, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Zimbabwe dollar is back[edit]

Zimbabwe dollar has been reinstated as the sole legal tender in Zimbabwe. All the others are outlawed. See --Baronedimare (talk) 20:49, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Swiss franc[edit]

@ZH8000: The reference you provided clearly states "Die amtlichen Bezeichnungen für die schweizerische Währungseinheit und deren Abkürzungen lauten: deutsch: Franken (Fr.)" (translation: The official designations for the Swiss currency unit and their abbreviations are: German: Franken (Fr.)". Therefore, "Fr." is the German abbreviation for the currency. "CHF" is just the ISO 4217 code, which is already mentioned in the list. – Zntrip 05:40, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

@Zntrip: your argument is perfidious and first of all not applicable. It is not applicable simply – as you say yourself – it is only valid for the German language. BUT THIS IS ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA.
And it is perfidious by you just to extract that single (and non-applicable) item what suits your POV, but not mentioning the whole article. Which actually says in German:
"Die amtlichen Bezeichnungen für die schweizerische Währungseinheit und deren Abkürzungen lauten:
a. deutsch: Franken (Fr.) und Rappen (Rp.);
b. französisch: franc (fr.) und centime (c.);
c. italienisch: franco (fr.) und centesimo (ct.);
d. rätoromanisch: franc (fr.) und rap (rp.);
e. international gültige Abkürzung für Schweizer Franken nach ISO-Norm Nr. 4217: CHF."
Which means in English (incredibly easy to translate):
"The official designations for the Swiss currency unit and its abbreviations are as follows:
a. German: Franken (Fr.) and Rappen (Rp.);
b. French: franc (fr.) and centime (c.);
c. Italian: franco (fr.) and centesimo (ct.);
d. Rhaeto-Romanic: franc (fr.) and rap (rp.);
e. internationally valid abbreviation for Swiss franc according to ISO standard no. 4217: CHF.."
Either you can not read, or then pretend to do so; both are not valid. --- — Preceding unsigned comment added by ZH8000 (talkcontribs) 17:08, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
@ZH8000: I would like to remind you that all editors are presumed to act in good faith. We have to try to communicate with each other in a civil manner to reach a consensus. My interpretation of the source is that "Fr." is the symbol used for the Swiss franc and that "CHF" is the ISO code. Before you altered the list, this is what was reflected. In other words, the list reflected what I interpret the source to say. From what I understand of your argument, the list cannot show "Fr." because the list is in English and "Fr." is not a state-sanctioned English abbreviation. I do not believe that the source says that and I also believe holding that view is antithetical to the purpose of this article, which is to list the commonly used symbol for a currency. These symbols are used in day-to-day dealings by people that actually use the currency and most are rarely, if ever, used in the English language. For example "د.ا" is used in Jordan to refer to the dinar and ".ރ" is used in the Maldives for the rufiyaa, but you would never actually see these used in English. – Zntrip 02:48, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
@Zntrip: I may apologize if you really honestly interpreted the legal words in your given way. But I think there is no room for interpretation. But first of all, let me make clear that there is no symbol for the Swiss franc, such as € or £; additionally, the law never speaks about a symbol. There are just abbreviations, either "Fr.", or "fr.", or "CHF". The mismatch of symbol with abbreviation may lead to a (further) misunderstanding. Anyhow, you can simply read point e. as "internationally valid abbreviation for Swiss franc: CHF" since "according to ISO standard no. 4217" is just an explanatory subclause in order to make obvious what is the source for the internationally valid abbreviation for the Swiss franc. I hope this makes it clear enough. -- ZH8000 (talk) 23:13, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
@ZH8000:No, that does not make it clear. Many currencies do not have a "symbol" that is a separate typographical character, but all have some sort of abbreviation that is used in accounting. What abbreviation do people it Switzerland use for the the franc? The source you cited says the official abbreviation is "Fr." Why should we not include that in the list? – Zntrip 02:41, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
"The source you cited says the official abbreviation is "Fr." Why should we not include that in the list?" – No, it does not. Now I am starting again to doubt you can read correctly. "Fr." is only valid in GERMAN language, full stop.
"What abbreviation do people it Switzerland use for the the franc?" – That's irrelevant for ENGLISH wikipedia. The law undoubtly says that "CHF" is the official abbreviation internationally or for any other language besides German, French, Italian, and Romansh. FULL STOP. -- ZH8000 (talk) 15:46, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
@ZH8000: I think it would help to have another native German speaker assist us, because I believe there may be a miscommunication. I will reach out to another editor who has been active on this article in the past and who also speaks German. – Zntrip 19:12, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi all! Two points: My reading agrees with Zntrip's, namely, that the source does not give an English abbreviation for Swiss francs. And second, a brief research tour around on Google and Google News shows that CHF, SFr and Fr all seem to be in use, but with very few sources for the latter and more for the first two. (Not sure whether that helps us here, though.) —Nightstallion 06:43, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

English is not an official language in Switzerland, therefore you cannot expect that the law explicitely designate an official abbreviation for a non-national language. BUT for anything else, and this is called internationally aka CHF.
The translation is obvious. But you also have it in French:
"Les dénominations officielles de l'unité monétaire suisse et leurs abréviations sont:
a. en allemand: Franken (Fr.) et Rappen (Rp.);
b. en français: franc (fr.) et centime (c.);
c. en italien: franco (fr.) et centesimo (ct.);
d. en romanche: franc (fr.) et rap (rp.);
e. sur le plan international: CHF, conformément à la norme ISO No 4217."
or Italian:
"Le denominazioni ufficiali e le abbreviazioni dell'unità monetaria svizzera sono:
a. in tedesco: Franken (Fr.) e Rappen (Rp.);
b. in francese: franc (fr.) e centime (c.);
c. in italiano: franco (fr.) e centesimo (ct.);
d. in romancio: franc (fr.) e rap (rp.);
e. sul piano internazionale: CHF, conformemente alla norma ISO N° 4217."
You can hardly get any more redandancy for your interpretation doubt. -- ZH8000 (talk) 14:09, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
Firstly, I still don't agree with your reading of the text (“International” is not a language, for one), but more importantly, the tone you choose in discussions is really borderline insulting in many places. Please be more civil in interactions with other editors. Thanks. —Nightstallion 07:43, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
@ZH8000:@Nightstallion: Seeing that there has been no additional input, and that both Nightstallion and myself seem to agree that the source cited does not support the assertion that ZH8000 has made, I have gone ahead and modified the list to show that "Fr." is the symbol/abbreviation for the Swiss franc. I am not so naive as to think that we are all in agreement, but we have two editors who do not agree with the interpretation of another editor's source, and I do think the burden is on that editor, especially in this case when the article being modified is, by its nature, a mostly static one. That being said, I am willing to explore other methods of dispute resolution if all engaged are willing to make a good faith effort. – Zntrip 01:56, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Zntrip, I don't think your approach is correct; no new consensus has been reached. Therefore your blatant revert is not valid. -- ZH8000 (talk) 05:22, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
I concur with Zntrip: CHF is the ISO code for the currency but certainly not its symbol or abbreviation. The commonly used abbreviation for the currency is obviously Fr. This is what is used on Swiss coins as an abbreviation and should naturally be listed in the abbreviation column. Switzerland may suggest CHF for international usage but to list that here as the symbol or abbreviation is silly since it obviously does not follow the spirit of the column's purpose. Reywas92Talk 07:14, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
@Reywas92: Once again: There is no symbol for the Swiss franc. Secondly, the international abbrev. is CHF, since it is even defined by law. "The spirit of the column's purpose"?? – Pardon-me, where is this "definition" defined?? But well, see below. -- ZH8000 (talk) 22:02, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
@Nightstallion:Of course "international" is not a language, but a placeholder for any other situation versus the points a.-d.. There is no place for another interpretation. -- ZH8000 (talk) 05:22, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
removed per WP:BANREVERT HansHeidel (talk) 12:36, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Yes, the abbreviation on Swiss coins is "Fr.". But this is only true for coins. It is not used on bank notes.
And nowaydays, it is rather seldom the case for printed and listed prices. You will find at least the three locally used abbreviatios: namely "CHF", "Fr.", and "fr." – and in this order of events!
See for example Swiss Post for German CH ("Alle Preise in CHF, inkl. MWST.") or Swiss Post for French CH ("Prix en CHF, TVA comprise") or Swiss Post for Italian CH ("Prezzi in CHF, IVA inclusa") or Swiss Post in Eglish ("All prices in CHF, incl. VAT."), Apple in Switzerland, Swiss International Airlines (pretend to be someone from CH and change the corresponding language in the upper right corner) – Except for one, all of these relevant examples are addressed to local buyers (sic!) and the used currency abbreviation is always "CHF"! So is the case nowaydays on most printed slips you get in a restaurant or shop. Of course, you will also find "fr." and "Fr.", but you will encounter problems to find just a few.
"are there any these days?": Yes, of course. Just check the list! LOL -- ZH8000 (talk) 22:02, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
You are being absurd. Change the Swiss Airlines currency to US Dollar, and it says USD, pick Britische Pfund, and it says GBP! They are consistently using the ISO codes for every currency. It's quite common to see "Prices in USD" or "Prices in GBP" elsewhere – I would not expect to see "Prices in Fr." any more than "Prices in $" since what is obviously an attempt to unambiguously give the currency with precision for all naturally uses the international standard for it! None of this means commonly used currency codes should supercede what is obviously the symbol/abbreviation in line with everything else. Reywas92Talk 00:34, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
Jumping into the fray here. It seems clear that the intention of the "Abbrev. / Symbol" column is to show local usage. The entry for Mexico shows "$" as the symbol. Clearly this is a local usage, as internationally, the "$" would be assumed to represent the US dollar unless otherwise specified. Following this logic, the local usage within Switzerland is to use the "Fr." abbreviation, and I believe that is the entry we should have in the table. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:59, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
"It seems clear that the intention of the "Abbrev. / Symbol" column is to show local usage." – If this is really the case (??), then I suggest it is made explicit: Then say it so in the column head! – But then, the local abbreviation for Swiss franc is all three of them: "CHF", "fr." and "Fr."! -- ZH8000 (talk) 22:02, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
removed per WP:BANREVERT HansHeidel (talk) 17:23, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
Formal remark: Please follow the WP:THREAD instruction in order to keep the talk pages readable. THX -- ZH8000 (talk) 22:02, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
  •  Administrator note: User HansHeidel has been blocked as a sockpuppet. An admin reverting their edits per WP:EVADE and another editor reverting that revert have inadvertently perpetuated an edit war that has already been going on for several days, so I have protected the page from editing. Ping me when consensus is reached. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 12:15, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
    • @Ivanvector: Even without HansHeidel, we have four users for the status quo ante, which I restored in reverting the unneeded procedural revert of Hans, and just one advocating that the ISO code should be used as the symbol/abbreviation, despite there already being an abbreviation and no other currency using the ISO code as such. I see no need for further edits but also no need for full protection. Reywas92Talk 17:39, 27 August 2019 (UTC)