Talk:List of converts to Islam from Christianity

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Former Muslims[edit]

These are from the list of former muslims article, I originally moved them from there to this article, but realised "List of converts to Islam" has a larger number of them, and there's a lot of overlap. I'm going to put them below so they can be added (if there are any not currently in this list.) Please feel free to remove them from the list below if you find they're already in the article or you've added them. Thanks! Ncboy2010 (talk) 11:17, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

List[edit]

Islam, is the National Muslim Chaplain for Muslim Americans.[30]]] -->

Claude Alexandre de Bonneval as Humbaracı Ahmet Paşa
Jimmy Cliff, Jamaican reggae musician
Muhammad Ali- a convert to Islam
Chris Eubank British boxer

References[edit]

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Idi Amin[edit]

Idi Amin's father was a convert to Muhammadism in 1910. This was before Idi Amin was born. The alleged source does not mention the conversion of Idi Amin to anything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.123.215.180 (talk) 10:44, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Notability[edit]

Wikipedia has thorough criteria for biographical inclusion, including these notability requirements. I will remove all entries which fail to satisfy these requirements. A person's inclusion on the list found on the dawah site http://www.muslimconverts.com does NOT establish notability. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 16:24, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Excessive detail in some entries[edit]

This list is not designed to be very biographical. It is really intended to direct readers to the linked biographical pages. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 17:11, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

It was not biographical information, it was relevant information pertaining to the personality at hand. There are similar articles that have just as much or more. Xtremedood (talk) 17:33, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Compare List of modern-day Muslim scholars of Islam, List of Muslim theologians and List of Muslim historians. This is how it SHOULD look. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 17:34, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Your subjective opinion should not be forced upon others. You are also making very unproductive changes, for example, you changed: "American Muslim minister, public speaker, and human rights activist who converted from Christianity" to "American Muslim minister, public speaker, and human rights activist. He converted from Christianity" for Malcolm X and claimed it was copy editing. Your edits often seem disruptive and unprofessional. Also, Theresa Corbin, Jerald F. Dirks, and perhaps Sarah Ager are notable. I do not see how they would be contrary to the notability requirements of WP. The source for Theresa is CNN and Jerald Dirks is a well known personality. Xtremedood (talk) 18:29, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Personal attacks are unnecessary. I don't attack you or call you names. We merely have a difference of opinion. So I asked a couple of other editors for their views rather than edit war with you. IMHO your source is unsuitable, and I enjoy copy-editing. I'm allow to copy edit. I think I'm quite good at it. Just because someone adds an entry doesn't mean no-one else can edit it for style or other improvements. Let's not attack each other, please. Let's see what other editors say before we revert each other again. Regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 17:53, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
You did not address the main issues of my last comment and accusing me of making personal attacks, when I clearly have not, is meaningless. Patronizing statements like these "This is how it SHOULD look" are also unproductive. CNN is a legitimate source. Jerald F. Dirks is a notable personality. Theresa Corbin is a notable personality. Xtremedood (talk) 18:21, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Then prove they are notable according to Wikipedia notability guidelines. And use a better source than a dawah website that merely lists people who have converted regardless of notability. I'm prepared to wait and see what other editors think. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 02:16, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Jerald F. Dirks is an author [[5]] and speaker [[6]]. Theresa Corbin had a story about her on CNN [[7]] and has spoken on the news [[8]]. Xtremedood (talk) 13:29, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
These activities do not in themselves constitute notability. Dirks does not meet WP:AUTHOR criteria. Your references re. Corbin do not establish notability. We can ask other established editors if you disagree with me. I'm open to that. Regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 16:14, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
I see less notable people than those two in other similar articles. Feel free to involve any other editors. More input on this issue may prove to be beneficial. Xtremedood (talk) 01:05, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

The new edit[edit]

The new edit is a misrepresentation, the source is very clear, it dosen't claims that 12.5 million christian converted to Islam. The source cited that between 1990-2000, there been more people who converted to Islam comprare to Christianiy, the claiming that 12.5 million christians converted to Islam between 1990-2000 is misrepresentation.--Jobas (talk) 11:12, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

@Xtremedood and GorgeCustersSabre: - You two need to discuss matters here as well, and explain how a source for settling bar bets, which says that 12.5 more people (who may or may not have been Christian) converted to Islam than they did to Christianity is reliable and relevant for an article that is specifically about Christians and only Christians converting to Islam Ian.thomson (talk) 07:18, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
With respect, Ian.thomson, you are expressing a personal bias in saying that the book is merely "a source for settling bar bets" and I'm surprised you are doing so. I have always seen you as more responsible, fair-minded and reasonable. YOU have to demonstrate that the book is unreliable before merely making the claim. By the way, I did not add the book myself; but I accept that it says what it was reported to say. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 07:33, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm willing to drop the reliability issue, but there is still the issue that the source only establishes that 12.5 million more people converted from any religion (or lack thereof, including Hinduism, atheism, Judaism, Buddhism, and so on) to Islam than to Christianity. This article is specifically about people converting from Christianity (and only Christianity) to Islam, and the infobox suggests that the material within it is about people converting from Christianity to Islam. That issue has not really been addressed. Ian.thomson (talk) 07:37, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
Fair comment, Ian.thomson, I didn't add that material. I only re-added it after editor Jobas deleted it after incorrectly saying that the source is false. It isn't. His justification for reversion was therefore inadequate. But you have raised a better point. Let's wait for Xtremedood to explain why he believes that the information should be added to that particular page. Thanks for your input. I appreciate you. Regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 07:44, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
@GorgeCustersSabre: That what i excally tried to say, I did not say that the source is false or wrong as you say you can see here and here or even here at my first comment, I said that the information of that source is cited that 12.5 million more people converted to Islam (from different religious backgrounds) than to Christianity. While the new edit on the infobox use this source and suggests that these numbers are about people converting from Christianity to Islam, That why i said there been a misrepresentation for the information of the source. Any way the new edit place is the article List of converts to Islam and definitely not in this article.--Jobas (talk) 11:34, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
The problem, dear brother Jobas, is that your English is so clumsy I could not follow it (I'm sorry to say). Even now you have expressed yourself in a muddled way. Still, go in peace. Regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 18:12, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
@GorgeCustersSabre: English is my fourth language; and regardless of the level of my English, I think my point was very clear. have a nice.--Jobas (talk) 19:19, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

There are several issues with deleting it. First, Jobas claimed the source was incorrect, which has not been established. Then Jobas over here [9] makes the false claim that the statement violates copyright, which is not the case. Not to mention that Jobas clearly makes 3 reverts within 24 hours, which according to my history on WP violates the 3RR, which ian.thomas claims it doesn't for some reason. It seems like an attempt by Jobas to try and divert the issue. As for the reference, it is a valid reference by perhaps the world's leading institute on world records. The source is good in that it correlates the total number of converts to Islam and Christianity. This, I think is a valid source to be included in the article. Xtremedood (talk) 03:42, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

Xtremedood is correct: via his talk page I warned Jobas not to violate the three-revert rule, and to take the issue to the talk page, but he went ahead and violated it anyway. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 08:11, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
Regarding the 3rr claim, Jobas's reverts date to:
16:56 is an hour and a half before 18:23, meaning he only made three reverts in 24 hours (not more than as is required by 3rr), or four within 26 hours. In fact, it works if you count it the other way, as well. Between 16:56 May 26 and 16:56 May 27 he only make three reverts. Not more than three, which is what WP:3RR actually forbids.
Furthermore, this article is only about specific named individuals who have converted from Christianity to Islam. It is not about atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Zoroastrians, or any other non-Christians who convert to Islam. It is not about groups of Christians who have converted to Islam, either. It certainly isn't about people who have converted to Christianity. The figures from Guinness (sociological reliability aside) are about people from any belief system converting to either Islam or Christianity, and the comparison between those number of converts. Ian.thomson (talk) 08:35, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
Dear Ian.thomson, it's not like you to become pedantic. You know as well as I do that he edited four times in a teeny amount over 24 hours. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 09:01, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
Please be assured that my admitted pedantry was not directed at nor inspired by you. As I said at WP:3RRNB, I would have counted the four reverts in 26 hours if Jobas hadn't been the only person at the time trying to sort matters on the page. Ian.thomson (talk) 09:08, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
Thanks Ian.thomson. That's good enough for me. Regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 09:17, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

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Biased editing by Jobas[edit]

user:Jobas has engaged in an editing war in this article as well as the List of converts to Christianity from Islam. While he repeatedly removes content from this article, citing sources as the reason (even though he fails to provide evidence), he does not allow for anything to be deleted from the other article and have engaged in an edit war to suppress details of Christians converting to Islam, but exaggerate claims of Muslims converting to Christianity. Xtremedood (talk) 09:37, 28 October 2016 (UTC)


Should the material deleted by user:Jobas be reintroduced until he or someone else can prove that the sources do not indicate as he says, due to massive one-sided editing on his part? Xtremedood (talk) 09:55, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Let's see most of the deleted names, do not mention that this perosn convert from Christianity, it's just mention that he or she was convert to Islam, with no information about the background and many of these source are blogs or ureliable source:
For example: The source of Dawud Wharnsby, IslamonLine.net is not exist. Other names as Joe Tex the source only mention he convert to Islam, it say nothing about his former religion, Other example [=http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3020416/Muslim-who-abused-troops-is-ex-British-boxing-ace.html the source here is unreliable] and say nothing about Anthony Small former religion. this list is about converts to Islam from Christianity, so you should provide source that this person convert from Christianity to Islam, not a soruce or blog that he convert to Islam with no information about his former religion. And please don't play the victim card, I changed the sources that you removed from List of converts to Christianity from Islam (I didn't revert your edit, i provided better sources).--Jobas (talk) 10:07, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Comment Summoned by bot. This RfC is absurdly over-broad and poorly drafted. You're going to have to re-draft it if you want meaningful input from outside editors. I assume this editor added or removed specific persons. You need to hone in on the specifics in the text that are at issue, and set forth the dispute in a neutral fashion. Coretheapple (talk) 14:52, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
user:Coretheapple, The editor removed a lot of references here from this article, as seen here [10] and here [11], while re-adding a lot of materials on the opposite article, as seen here [12], [13], [14], [15], [16], [17]. The user has a history of such biased edits on similar pages such as in regards to a controversial porn star [18], where previous consensus (here [19]) was that due to the religious nature of the controversy, the porn stars religion should be addressed, something he ignored with more recent edits [20] [21]. These biased edits and his history is a reason why I am proposing a reversion of this article to it's previous state, until user:Jobas can prove that the sources do not indicate such or give other information pertaining to the matter as to why they should not be included in the list. Xtremedood (talk) 22:39, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
These are not even diffs, just, in the main, prior versions of the page. How do you expect me to understand what he did without diffs? You need to be clear and to be understanding of the limited time of volunteers. For your information this article came up on STiKi as I was doing some vandal fighting a couple of hours ago. You may want to file a clear report at AN/I if you are convinced an editor is engaged in gross misconduct. But remember that diffs will be required, there as here. Coretheapple (talk) 22:48, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose Not only is this RfC poorly formulated, as User:Coretheapple mentioned, but individuals should only be included in this list if the citation specifically states that the religion they converted from was Christianity. It's evident that many of the citations don't claim that and therefore, User:Jobas's edits were warranted. Bmbaker88 (talk) 22:49, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
I'm glad you were able to figure out what the issue is, as I could not from this RfC. A properly drafted RfC would deal with the specific problem that this editor feels is being caused. Give us something to work on! Don't force us to use detective work to figure out what the issue is. I sure won't. I don't have the time or interest. Coretheapple (talk) 22:52, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
List of converts to Islam from Christianity is is specifically about people converting from Christianity (and only Christianity) to Islam, so every name is mentioned here is should be well sourced and the source should mention clearly that this people converting from Christianity (and only Christianity) to Islam, many sources of the article are unreliable and blogs, yet i only removed the names which the source don't cliam that converting from Christianity to Islam, I will give an example here, Marion Caunter is been removed since the source don't mention he converting from Christianity, It's only been mentioned that she is convert to Islam, onther example is Dave Chappelle, he is been removed the source is mention that he is convert to Islam, but is say nothing about former religion, other example edley Churchward he is been removed since the source again it's only mention that he convert to Islam, the same case is for Zainab Cobbo the source do not mention that she convert from Christianity.
Just a note, I do not claimed that this sample do not converted from Christianity, but the source that been surpported withn do not cited that, so it been removed.--Jobas (talk) 07:10, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
I agree that the source must state the religion from which they are converting. We cannot just take a stab at it or assume. BLP requires that. Coretheapple (talk) 14:04, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
Agreed, it must be referenced reliably that the people in this article are converting specifically from Christianity to Islam. Rubbish computer (HALP!: I dropped the bass?) 14:15, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

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