Talk:List of family relations in the NHL

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New Addition for 2013-14 NHL Season: Namestnikov -- Father/Son Evgeny (John) Namestnikov 1993-97 Vancouver (35 games), 97-98 NY Islanders (6 gm) 99-2000 Nashville (2 gm)

                          Vladislav Namestnikov 2013-14 Tampa Bay Lightning (4 games)
 additional notes: John is Brother-in-Law, Vladdy is nephew to Vyacheslav (Slava) Kozlov 1182 NHL games with Detroit, Buffalo & Atlanta    Thrashers.  Both Father & Son played for the Syracuse Crunch of the AHL.  CNY Puckhead (talk) 19:27, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

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Foligno Brothers Error

Nick and Marcus' father Mike played over 1000 games and is an assistant coach for the New Jersey Devils. I'd fix it but I don't know how.

Former featured list List of family relations in the NHL is a former featured list. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page and why it was removed. If it has improved again to featured list standard, you may renominate the article to become a featured list.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
May 22, 2007 Peer review Reviewed
June 1, 2007 Featured list candidate Promoted
May 6, 2010 Featured list removal candidate Demoted
Current status: Former featured list
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Games Played[edit]

A column of total number of games played by the family would be great. Then you could sort on that and see the most 'significant' families (families with just a couple hundred games aren't of interest to most people). Some marker indicating one of the members is active would be required.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:24, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Manon Rheaume (cont'd)[edit]

The players inclusion criteria should remain -a player must have played a regular season or playoff game-. GoodDay 18:35, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I still think they should be in. I even thought we had come to a concensus last time to add her as an exception but I would have to go back and read all the past discussion to see if that was the case or not. Being the first female player in the NHL makes her notable enough to be listed as a family relation on this list. --Djsasso 18:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
I prefer keeping the current 'criteria' (no exception). The only way Manon Rheaume should be allowed, would be to allow inclusion of all exhibition-only players. As Yankees76 said, she was no Jackie Robinson (she's been the only female). GoodDay 18:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
See and I completely disagree, doesn't matter if no more females followed her. She was still the first, and as much she is as notable, if not moreso, that most of the people on this list. There is no reason why you would have to add all exhibition-only players. They did not become as notable as she did. --Djsasso 19:31, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
It's either no exceptions or inclusion of all; again it was just a Phil Espositio PR stunt. GoodDay 19:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
There is no reason why it has to be all or none. No offense intended but you do have a tendancy to always try to push for all or none. When there is always a possibility for middle ground. This is one of those cases. Whether or not it was a PR stunt does not mitigate that she was the first female player. PR stunt or not she was and always will be the first female NHL player. In fact there is even an article about this type of reasoning WP:ALLORNOTHING. Yes its aimed mostly at deletion discussions but it can apply to situations like this as well. --Djsasso 20:08, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Add her, if you (or Canuckle) wish. I just hope others will accept the 'double standard' of it. GoodDay 20:14, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Well I will wait to see what others say. But I see no reason why she absolutely should not be added. I can see reasons why its a grey area, but I see no absolute reason why she can't. So I will wait and see. --Djsasso 20:16, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
There really is no double standard as she is not being allowed on the list because she played an expedition game, but because she was the first woman to play in a game, expedition or not. T Rex | talk 19:09, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
I'd be more then happy to include Manon Rheaume and the other 'exhibition only players'. At least those players 'earned a try-out', unlike Rheaume (a PR stunt). GoodDay 19:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
{re-indent) As the person who overhauled this page, I would like to throw my $0.02 in, realizing of course my vote means no more than anyone else's. As we stated above, the exhibition only requirement is important, because there are a ton of no-name siblings who would be included on this page if the pre-season were to count. As that is the rule we established for the page, the fact that one person is left out is the (some would say unfortunate) result. I agree with GoodDay, Manon Rheaume is nothing more than a PR stunt used to sell tickets for one game. If she held a steady spot on the roster during the preseason and ended up back in the minors, I would say you have a stronger argument. Since she didn't, she's no more notable than Eddie Gaedel, and thus should be left off the page. Anthony Hit me up... 23:06, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I disagree. Our standard is already extreme inclusionism. Right now, Bobby Hull is cited not only as a New York Ranger in all pertinent lists and categories but as a Ranger Hall of Famer based on the four games he played years after his formal retirement in a blue uniform in a European exhibition tournament, and there are those here who advocated his inclusion hard. Regardless of the motivations behind Rheaume's signing -- and I can think of few notions more arbitrary and subjective than us deciding what players are notable or not based on our perceptions of the general manager's motivations -- she played two regularly scheduled NHL exhibition games. If folks would like to revisit the silliness of Hull = Ranger, sure, let's go for it, but if you're going to advocate the one, then the other must remain also. Beyond that, the article is wildly inconsistent. What's Keith Gretzky doing there? Marguerite Norris? If the criterion is "connection with the organization," then suiting up for exhibition games sure as heck qualifies.  Ravenswing  20:28, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

As I've said before, feel free to add Rheaume (just don't forget the others). As for the Bobby Hull situation? see New York Rangers article. GoodDay 20:33, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Get ready to add Troy Crosby then. He never played in a regular NHL game either, but as I noted above would have most likely appeared in a pre-season game in 1985. My own opinion is that this argument is ridiculous and would not be taking place if Rheaume was a male. However, perhaps the strongest argument for her not being included in this article is that she does not even appear on the Tampa Bay Lightning all-time player list on their own website[1]when even Normand Rochefort who played all of 6 games for the franchise is. She's not a player, coach owner, official, or head scout. She was a novelty act, who probably did not appear in enough minutes to qualify as being the goaltender of record in either game she played. I'm surprised there is such a debate over a person who played probably less than 3 periods of pre-season hockey. --Yankees76 20:56, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Quite frankly if the only way to make sure someone as major as Rheaume is not left off the list then I would be more than willing to add Troy Crosby and all the other exhibition only players. I think it is a grave error to leave her off, novelty act or not. --Djsasso 21:00, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
There is one easy solution. Change the name of the article from List of family relations in the National Hockey League to List of family relations in Professional Hockey. Then the Manon Rheaumes and Hayley Wickenheisers can be added along with the Ryan Sittlers, Terrence Tootoos and Darryl Campbells of the hockey world. --Yankees76 21:21, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Great idea ...Professional Hockey. We'll have to divide the article of course into NHL, AHL, European Teams, WNHL etc. How's about it folks? GoodDay 21:26, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't have an issue with that. --Djsasso 21:27, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Nix the 'sections for Leagues' suggestion, we simply add NHL, AHL, European Elit League etc, next to the person's name. So we know what level they got to (exhibition included). 21:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Makes sense. I can see issues with verification, however is fairly complete. I would also ensure it's professional "Ice Hockey" as well. --Yankees76 21:47, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I think that would make this already incredibly large list beyond workable. As it is, it takes a minute just to upload any changes to the page. I'm concerned about several things:
  1. The size of the page
  2. The verifiability of the information
  3. The notability of the individuals on it
  4. Maintaining featured status

As it is, we have very clear standards for who can have articles on this site and who cannot; they have been extensively discussed and refined in the Hockey WikiProject. If we proceed to open this up, there is no conceivable end to where this article could go. There are countless leagues in North America, and if we include Europe, we're talking literally thousands of players and individuals on this site. The current standards for this page, restrictive though they may be, are in the best interests of Wikipedia and the editors involved. The mere fact that we are considering an overhaul of this magnitude simply for one person is incredulous. The standard works. The page works. Let's leave it at that before we blow all this away simply for one individual. Anthony Hit me up... 12:40, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Anthony has good points folks. What are we gonna do, now? GoodDay 16:06, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
PS-I'm glad you brought up the difficulty factor concerning making edits to this article. It gets tiresome seeing Wikimedia Fountation (server is down), when trying to make changes after waiting a minute for the page to un-freeze. GoodDay 16:24, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Divide the article?[edit]

As Anthony pointed out (above), the article has gotten long and bloated. Perhaps we should divide it up into sister articles. Those articles would deal with NHL players, AHL players, European Elite players, NHL management (owners/gms/coaches), European Elite management, NHL officials (refs/linesmen), etc, etc. It seems inevitable. GoodDay 17:06, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

The problem with that argument is that as the page stands now, you have all varieties of relations on the page. Players are related to referees, coaches are related to builders, there's no way we can narrow the scope of the page down without doing serious damage. I agree the page is bloated as per your comments above, but unfortunately I don't see any other way we can deal with it. If we increase the scope of the page above to include Manon Rheaume and all the Europeans, we might as well just give up. On the other hand, cutting it into smaller articles would also be a pain. The only conceivable reduction method would be to split it along familial connections: one page for siblings, one page for parent-children, and one page for the rest; that's how I split up the page in my sandbox when I was overhauling it. If you do it any other way, you risk cutting out relations and information. I would have no problem splitting the page into smaller connection pages; I am vehemently opposed, however, to any expansion of the inclusion criteria. Leave Manon Rheaume out, because it's just a slippery slope otherwise. Anthony Hit me up... 14:31, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm at my wits end, I'm no longer certain what to do. I do know one thing however, I'll these potential headaches would be avoided if the current criteria remains (meaning no Manon). GoodDay 16:57, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Anthony Hit me up... 17:09, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Does anybody know how to divide this article? Perhaps into List of siblings in Ice Hockey, List of parents and children..., List of cousins... etc. It's only gonna get more difficult to edit or even view the page. GoodDay 16:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
As I said above, the only legit way to divide the article is to divide along familial connections. The size of the page as it stands now is unwieldy; 111 kilobytes is massive. Another few things to consider when we split the page down:
  1. What do we call the new sub-pages?
  2. What does this article become? A link to the sub-pages?
  3. Do the sub-pages then become their own featured lists as a result of breaking off from the main one?

We're going to need some input on this before we take any action, though I suggest doing it soon. I'll alert the hockey wikiproject. Anthony Hit me up... 20:32, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

It's seems everyone is agreed to division along those lines (familial lines), aswell as keeping the current inclusion criteria. GoodDay 22:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

My two cents[edit]

I think the article should stick to just players and another section should be made for other relations, such as coaches, trainers, whatever, etc. I also liked the old layout without the notations on the far right, it was easier to view/navigate without having to scroll down. -RiverHockey 21:09, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I tend to agree, the list was much shorter & easier to work with, before the format was changed (remember the saying? if it ain't broke, don't fix it). Furthermore, could somebody out there please divide this goliath of an article up? Make each section an article itself? GoodDay (talk) 23:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
It's only 113k, which is pretty average for a page so its not really a goliath article. The reason we thought about ividing it up was because we wanted to include Rheaume in it etc. --Djsasso (talk) 23:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I find the size of this article has slowed down the ability to obtain it & edit it. GoodDay (talk) 23:31, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree that an all-players section would be better. I would also like to see a section for family records: ie families with the most members, games played, goals, assists, points, Stanley Cups, etc.Hellbound Hound (talk) 13:59, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Parise Bros[edit]

Zach Parise's Brother plays for Lowell, New jersey's minor team. his brother is Jordan Parise —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dark Lord Revan (talkcontribs) 05:57, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

refs in scroll window[edit]

just an aside, i believe this violates WP policy. refs are not supposed to be in a scrollable window, as it impairs access for those with disabilities or those on limited terminals. Anastrophe (talk) 00:38, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Bubla and the Olympic Gold Medal[edit]

At the father-son line "Jiri Bubla - Jiri Slegr" there is written: "They both played for the Vancouver Canucks. They both won the Olympic Gold Medal and IIHF World Hockey Championship Gold Medals making them the only father/son combination to do so.[244]" However, this is not true. Jiri Bubla won only Olympic Silver Medal in 1976. The link does not say it either. I will remove the note. Miraceti (talk) 13:28, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

The Hextall Family Tree[edit]

New at this guys, so please forgive if this an intrution, or the wrong way to go bout it. But shouldn't the section have a Grandfather-Son-Grandson section Ron Hextall is the grandson of Hall-of-Famer Bryan Hextall, the son of former NHL player Bryan Hextall Jr. and nephew of former NHL player Dennis Hextall. I mean 3 NHLers out of one Hall-of-Famer has got to account for something, The Hextall's were mentioned I see, but A grandFather-Son-Son-GrandSon combo is pretty Rare. lateofphilly (talk) 21:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

They're already listed twice on the Parent-child section (Bryan to Bryan Jr. and Dennis, Bryan Jr. to Ron). No need to repeat it again in a separate section - grandparent-to-grandchild is f0r cases where NHL playing time skipped a generation. NeoChaosX (talk, edits) 22:13, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Should Brett Hextall be on the list? He was drafted by the Coyotes, but hasn't played in the NHL. Playing in the NHL doesn't seem to be a prerequisite, some of the included people aren't players at all, but merely involved in some way. Brett is a player who is or at least was involved in the NHL in some capacity. (talk) 05:29, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

They need to have been in the NHL or held a management role in the NHL is the requirement I believe. If they don't play a single game then they don't qualify. I know we regularely cut players who only played in exhibition games because they aren't official games. So if he didn't play at all then he definitely doesn't qualify. -DJSasso (talk) 11:27, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Should the Brodeurs be listed here?[edit]

Well, after finding out about Mike Brodeur and his "distant" (to put it in Mike's words) relation to Martin Brodeur, I'm curious as to whether that's enough to list them on this article. Someone put the two Broduers under "Siblings", but their distant relation would disqualify them for that. I reaize, however, that "distant" is too vague and it could cover any sort of relationship. So I'm curious - is the relation between Mike and Martin Brodeur enough to be listed here, or do we not have enough information to know for sure? NeoChaosX (talk, edits) 22:16, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I personally probably wouldn't. But we do have a cousin section so technically. -DJSasso (talk) 00:09, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
I would probably say not unless we have a firmer grasp of what the relationship is. If Mike is Martin's fourth cousin, twice removed, on his father's side, that is a bit ridiculous. Resolute 00:55, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Slap Shot Mania[edit]

I noticed that Jack Carlson & Steve Carlson was listed under brothers. 3rd brother Jeff Carlson never played in the NHL but did play in the WHA and IHL and a few more prof. leagues. But that's not all. They have a cousin, David Hanson, who played 100+ games in WHA and then a couple of dozen games in NHL (Red Wings and North Stars). That's not all. David's son, Christian Hanson, is a centre for the Maple Leafs. But, as stated earlier, only Jack & Steve is mentioned in the list. Anyone care to fix this or is it left out for some reason? (talk) 21:43, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

NON NHL but notable families[edit]

Cyclone Taylor is listed here as a notable relation to an nhl player. However he never actually played in the NHL. THere are a few familiy relations which can also be determined pre NHL. Can we change the name of the article to reflect at least professional hockey families rather than solely NHL families? Just some thoughts. Thanks for anyones time Ottawa4ever (talk) 14:20, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I am guessing the reason for him was that he played in the NHA, which though not technically the NHL, many people consider it the same thing. I would probably remove him and any others like him. -DJSasso (talk) 14:56, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
He also played in leagues that were considered on par with the NHL at the time, played against NHL teams in the Stanley Cup Finals, won the Stanley Cup, is in the HHOF, and is generally considered to be the best player of his era. A previous suggestion was "professional hockey" which someone rightly suggested it would make this list way too long. But certain leagues were considered "Major League" (original IHL circa 1905, NHA, PCHA, WCHL circa 1920s, WHA). (talk) 16:45, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Joe Malone and Cliff Malone[edit]

Does anyone have any sources to verify Cliff Malone is the nephew of Joe Malone (ice hockey) Ive found this link;[2], I also have this link; [3] it would seem that that they are referring to the same Cliff malone as he played for the Montreal Royals in the second link posted and the internet database with cliff malone indicated that that cliff also played for the royals. Is this too much original research to include in the article? Any ideas, Thanks Ottawa4ever (talk) 18:27, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

The Howes[edit]

Why are Mark and Marty Howe listed separately from Gordie and Viv? (talk) 04:10, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

error: Buchanan, Ralph & Ron[edit]

Under the Notes section of parents and sons, the description is in error, I believe, and certainly confusing.

"Ron only played five games in the NHL, and Ron only played five."

I think it should probably say Ralph in one of those places... not Ron twice... and also clarify a bit better. Not being a sports buff, I can't decipher the references enough to make the corrections myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steph6n (talkcontribs) 09:02, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Manon Rheaume redux[edit]

And here we go again ... First off, we've been more than happy to credit a player in exhibition play only as "belonging" to that team. (Bobby Hull a New York Ranger Hall of Famer? Really? Seriously?) Secondly, this list is already jampacked with people whose NHL credentials stretch no further than being an equipment manager, an assistant in the front office, a scout, a "medical trainer" and suchlike ... which is quite enough of a whopping "can of worms" as it is, and which doesn't seem to much bother people, at least not nearly as much a female player seems to.

You're burning to get rid of Manon Rheaume? Fine. Then get rid of every other person who did not play in a NHL regular season or playoff game. I'd be down with that, and that'd give the article a firm, objective criterion. As it happens, the list does not otherwise exclude rostered players who didn't play in a regular season game. (Come to that, it doesn't exclude much of anyone. If the criterion is "employed by the NHL in some capacity," as it appears to be, Rheaume certainly qualifies, as does the GM's secretary, the assistant deputy head of marketing and the head usher ... some of whom must have been family members of players. Want to bet I can't come up with fifty or sixty of those just going through the Team Directory sections of NHL Media Guides?  ῲ Ravenswing ῴ  05:23, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

  • When I watched over this list, and it was FL, the criteria to make the list was:
    • 1. Played in a regular season NHL game.
    • 2. Coached an NHL team.
    • 3. General manager of an NHL team.

There were no equipment manager, broadcasters, minor leaguers, etc. Now that the list is no longer FL, and isn't protected as much, it's run amok. I have neither the time nor the energy to devote to maintaining it, so I shudder to think what I would find. But Manon Rheaume (and thus Pascal) don't belong on this page, at least under the standard that was set at the time this was FL. My $0.02. Anthony (talk) 14:21, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

  • I've no objection to head coaches or general managers. What we do have are scouts, front office middle managers, assistant equipment managers, linesmen and all manner of folks whose sole claim to being "in" the NHL is that they were at one point employed by a NHL team, a description which applies in equal measure to Manon Rheaume. I'd be more than happy to strip out all the dross if there is consensus on a firm, objective standard.  ῲ Ravenswing ῴ  15:36, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
  • I would trim it back to where it was when it was a FL. -DJSasso (talk) 15:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Agreed, the list has become bloated, with undeserved entries. GoodDay (talk) 23:38, 15 July 2011 (UTC)


I deleted alot of unqualified entries from this article. IMHO, if one hasn't been an NHL player (i.e. played atleast 1 NHL regular seaon game or 1 NHL playoff game), one shouldn't be admitted. That's why Lester & Frank Patrick got the boot, aswell as the Smythes, Fergusons, Griffiths, Wirtzs, Irvins etc. GoodDay (talk) 12:25, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

  • Err ... consensus is running that head coaches and GMs qualify, which leaves Frank Patrick back in, for one.  ῲ Ravenswing ῴ  15:19, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
We should use "played at least one game in the NHL regular season or playoffs" as the criteria for inclusion. People who were only in management and/or coaching, merely muddies the waters & makes this article too long & difficult to edit. GoodDay (talk) 15:25, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
Scarcely, considering the size of the article. In any event, consensus is running strongly towards their inclusion, so if you wouldn't mind halting editing them out until such time as that consensus falters?  ῲ Ravenswing ῴ  19:55, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
Okie Dokie. GoodDay (talk) 19:57, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Grandfather & Grandson[edit]

Why are Bernie Geoffrion & Blake Geoffrion being deleted from this section? GoodDay (talk) 18:23, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Stanley Cup as coach or GM[edit]

I didn't bold them, but how should we do with Darryl Sutter and Dean Lombardi who have now won the Cup with the Kings, although not as players.BleuDXXXIV (talk) 02:56, 12 June 2012 (UTC)