Talk:List of former Muslims

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Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr.[edit]

Barack Obama provides a brief biography on of Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. in his book Dreams from my Father, page 282. He describes how Rev. Wright had become a Muslim.

Dreams from my Father, page 282 “He had grown up in Philadelphia, the son of a Baptist minister. He had resisted his father's vocation at first, joining the Marines out of college, dabbling with liquor, Islam, and Black Nationalism in the sixties.”

Rev. Wright got his Masters degree in “Islam in West Africa” Reverend Wright subsequently converted back to Christianity. http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/blog/g/4d8a42cb-ede8-499e-b737-df7a0682f19c http://infidelsarecool.com/wp-content/uploads/WrightOnProgrMuslims070807.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thebigbopper5000 (talkcontribs) 00:53, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

"Dabbled in Islam" is not sufficient to characterize someone as having been a Muslim. The New Republic reference would seem to be more definitive, but there's some debate about that as well. Per WP:BLP, we should be cautious about adding potentially controversial material unless we have an unimpeachable source. Since Rev. Wright is back in the media, there's a good chance that we'll hear more about this. We can add him, or not, when we've got a definitive answer about whether he was actually a Muslim in the '60s or just studied it as part of his academic and religious training. Until then, I don't think he should be on this list. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 04:14, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
I agree. With someone of his profile, a conversion to Islam (or reversion from it) would have been explicitly stated by the media, esp. in the heat of the Obama-Clinton campaign.Bless sins (talk) 20:09, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Not a good source[edit]

This source is not a good one. The article uses subjective terminology such as "Whatever God put on his soul" or "It was priceless." There is also discussion about the kingdom of God and sayings of Christ. None of this is surprising considering the article itself is an editorial, and not a news report. Can another, more reliable source be found?Bless sins (talk) 20:10, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:David Hicks.jpg[edit]

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Barack Obama was never a Muslim[edit]

Hi, Barack Obama was never a Muslim. His biological father was an atheist of Islamic background, and his mother was a liberal Christian. I suggest you read this article: Obama: not a Manchurian candidate. The article states the following:

"Obama's campaign aides have emphasized his strong Christian beliefs and downplayed any Islamic connection. The Illinois senator was raised 'in a secular household in Indonesia by his stepfather and mother,’ his chief spokesman, Robert Gibbs, said in a statement in January after false reports began circulating that Obama had attended a radical madrasa, or Koranic school, as a child. 'To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago,’ Gibbs' Jan. 24 statement said."

The article dispels any unsubstantiated claims of an alleged Islamic upbringing. For this reason, I am going to remove Barack Obama's name from the list of former muslims article. Joyson Noel (talk) 14:16, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references ![edit]

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

  • "Balyuzi" :
    • {{cite book |first=Hasan |last=Balyuzi |year=1985 |title=Eminent Bahá'ís in the time of Bahá'u'lláh |publisher=The Camelot Press Ltd, Southampton |id=ISBN 0853981523 | pages = pp. 245-256}}
    • {{cite book |first=Hasan |last=Balyuzi |year=2000 |title=Bahá'u'lláh, King of Glory }} Changed ref to "Balyuzi-2000".
    • {{cite book |first=Hasan |last=Balyuzi |year=1985 |title=Eminent Bahá'ís in the time of Bahá'u'lláh |publisher=The Camelot Press Ltd, Southampton |id=ISBN 0853981523 | pages = pp. 265-266}}
    • {{cite book |first=Hasan |last=Balyuzi |year=1985 |title=Eminent Bahá'ís in the time of Bahá'u'lláh |publisher=The Camelot Press Ltd, Southampton |id=ISBN 0853981523 | pages = pp. 290-310}}
    • {{cite book |last = Balyuzi |first = H.M. |authorlink = Hasan M. Balyuzi |year = 1985 |title = Eminent Bahá'ís in the time of Bahá'u'lláh |pages = pp. 268-270 |publisher = The Camelot Press Ltd, Southampton |id = ISBN 0853981523}}
    • {{cite book |first=Hasan |last=Balyuzi |year=1985 |title=Eminent Bahá'ís in the time of Bahá'u'lláh |publisher=The Camelot Press Ltd, Southampton |id=ISBN 0853981523 | pages = pp. 335-350}}

DumZiBoT (talk) 11:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

 Done. Unified cites for ISBN 0853981523 published in 1985. Reinstated page # visibility with RP template.
Changed ref name for 2000 publication.

SBaker43 (talk) 20:10, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Zohra Segal[edit]

The article in question says that Segal was raised alongside Muslims and was expected to abide by Islamic traditions. It doesn't, however, say that Segal was ever a Muslim or that she covnerted from that faith to secularism. For this reason I will remove her from the list.Bless sins (talk) 02:28, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Please also see Wikipedia_talk:No_original_research/archive26#Conversion. Both editors who responded said that if all you know is that a person was religion X at time a, and then religion Y and time b, without any specific mention of conversion, then its best to avoid saying he converted from X to Y. If you are dissatisfied, we can start a discussion again at the policy page.Bless sins (talk) 15:30, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Check out the following paragraph from the article. "Kameshwar Segal, the young dancer whom she fell in love with... This burqa-clad Sunni Muslim woman who flung aside norms to join Uday Shankar's dance troupe when she was only 23 — what a life she had led!" Plus, later on she states that she is an agnostic who doesn't believe in organized religion. As such, it can be clearly surmised that she used to be a Muslim at least until the age of 23, and later became an agnostic. Moreover, the article clearly states that she was brought up in Sunni Muslim traditions. For these reasons, i'm going to add her back. Joyson Noel (talk) 01:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Bieng brought up in any tradition doesn't mean she held that faith. Secondly, I'll repeat, please take a look at Wikipedia_talk:No_original_research/archive26#Conversion. Both editors who responded said that if all you know is that a person was religion X at time a, and then religion Y and time b, without any specific mention of conversion, then its best to avoid saying he converted from X to Y. If you are dissatisfied, we can start a discussion again at the policy page.Bless sins (talk) 05:27, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Current dispute[edit]

I'm not sure about the curent dispute between Taz Manchestar and Matt57, but both should bring their dispute here on talk, instead of telling the other to do so.

In particular, this is not a reliable source.Bless sins (talk) 03:51, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Charles Wardle - edit warring.[edit]

Two editors are reverting each other with anon adding "Charles Wardle" and named editor removing this. Both are tagging with "vandalism" but it isn't vandalism - this is just a plain old content dispute related to notability. Firstly we only add notable people - the article starts, "list of notable people who have been Muslims sometime during their lives, but left Islam for another religion" etc etc. Charles Wardle doesn't have an article and I doubt anyone could make one.On looking at the links which support the claim then they are apostate then we have [1] which is The Dominion Post web site and [2] which is in Italian but Google translate kindly tells the story (and it is just a recap of the story) with the writer at the end commenting "Charles Wardle could be the result of an unbridled imagination, or entirely real.". So that story is just presented as a unverified account. There just isn't enough WP:RS to justify the entry. Given his claims from his web site of working for the NZSIS then methinks Walter Mitty but you never know; either way all we have is conjecture to date. Ttiotsw (talk) 09:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I did the reversion while signed in and not anon, as you mistakenly assumed. My reason for repeatedly removing Wardle's name from the list is the same as above. So, i am well within my rights to call the IP/IP's persistent addition of Wardle to the list "Vandalism". I suspect that Wardle himself is doing it. In fact, the IP's appear to be from New Zealand (the same country that Wardle is from). As such, the best course of action would be to request an administrator to semi-protect this article, so that only established users rather than anon losers, can edit it. Joyson Konkani 13:55, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
But I don't think that it is "vandalism" per se compared to the other nonsense that gets added as we must assume good faith with whomever it is that is adding it is not mens rea a vandal: but they are just a naughty boy. I too think that this story is manufactured and if it is the subject adding the content so that's just a matter of WP:COI and WP:RS. The guy should enter the chat show circuit and write an autobiography or something. IP protection won't stop them creating sleeper accounts. Better to educate them as to what the criteria is for notability and then they can aim for that. Ttiotsw (talk) 08:48, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
I've already done so. User:Dhard2009 was the first to add Wardle's name. I presented my reason as to why Charles Wardle failed notability (lack of credible news references) and did not deserve to be in the list. Furthermore, i repeatedly asked him to discuss, so that we could reach a consensus on whether Wardle should be in the list. Yet, he simply chose to ignore me and this led to him getting banned. Now, the person keeps on re-inserting Wardle's names under different IP's. The references he provides also do not satisfy WP:RS. I have previously explained it in the edit summary, but to no avail. As such, i am well within my rights to revert the edits as Vandalism. Joyson Konkani 14:08, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Yes, lots of the IP end up in the library at Auckland University and the other recent one is a Auckland dialup. The guy certainly seems to be on a mission. Shouldn't he be studying Art or something ? Perhaps his edits of Wikipedia are not vandalism but part of an ephemeral installation exploring the cross-border manipulation of media ?. Trouble is that blocking all IPs (or a country-level subnet) would go against the current ethos of Wikipedia of allowing anyone to edit. Maybe just better to use URL blacklist of charleswardle.com like we do for spammers. Ttiotsw (talk) 14:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
Are you kidding me? The guy is clearly vandalizing the article and has his own agenda. Yet, you keep excusing his edits as "actions of a naughty boy", "Conflict of interest" and "part of an ephemeral installation exploring the cross-border manipulation of media" (whatever that means). I really think that you are taking the good faith thing a bit too far. You sound quite ridiculous, to be honest. Furthermore, how did you know that IP's were from Auckland, considering that you did not make a user check request? Sensitive articles such as this are better kept semi-protected. I assure you that there are such articles in Wikipedia. For example, Jimmy Wales and Larry Sanger. And how do you URL blacklist of charleswardle.com like we do for spammers? Joyson Konkani 17:12, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
You are taking this way too seriously. You don't need a checkuser - an IP address is the least secure way of editing Wikipedia ! - do a traceroute on the IP - e.g. traceroute on 130.216.172.229 and you'll find a reverse IP of lb315-0b10.lbr.auckland.ac.nz which if you google the lbr.auckland.ac.nz clearly shows that it is the Auckland Uni library. I'm guessing the rest probably narrows it down to a specific console/port/device. This is why I never edit Wikipedia via IP and always logon. As for my "part of an ephemeral installation exploring the cross-border manipulation of media" if you paid attention to your adversary then you'll notice that they claim to have studied science and art at University. This whole affair seems to be manufactured so I was poking fun at the self-reference and absurdity in postmodernism. The "naughty boy" is an allusion to Monty Python, Life of Brian - in which Brian's mother says, "He's not the messiah, he's just a naughty boy" - as the crowd mistook him as the messiah. I think it's topical. I don't see how I'm I'm following WP:AGF when I accuse someone of being a misunderstood loner, a mistaken messiah and uses absurd self-references ?. OK, maybe I should just call them a vandal but Wikipedia should be fun and an intellectual exercise. For spam link blacklisting then see Wikipedia:Spam_blacklist or Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection may be better but like I said - he could just run sleeper accounts to bypass IP restrictions. Ttiotsw (talk) 20:08, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for elaborating. I'm sorry if i was a bit rude. It was because i found it impossible to understand you. Joyson Konkani 04:50, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

(outdent) I have requested page semi-protection. Hopefully it'll work. It could have been a 'bot but the 'bot removed my hidden edit tag (incorrectly) so it passed the Turing test. It's human. Ttiotsw (talk) 00:40, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Well looks like *someone* is back from the Whitangi day celebrations and is editing back in *this* content. Ttiotsw (talk) 04:50, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Atheism is not an ideology[edit]

Without wanting to rekindle a tricky discussion re the Atheism article, I note that the lead's mention of "non-religious ideology", plus the sub-heading "became Atheists" implies that atheism is an ideology. I would argue that it's the antithesis of an ideology.

HiLo48 (talk) 09:15, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

 Done I think it looks better now. Iwanttoeditthissh (talk) 14:50, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


Please add Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam also to the list. It is clear from his book "Wings of fire" that he does not embrace Islam and prefers his religion to be humanism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sreejithsasikumar (talkcontribs) 21:52, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Katja Shchekina[edit]

When you look at her facebook it says she used to have a muslim name until her parents divorced. Now has a non-muslim name. On top of that, check out her pictures with crosses and things and stuff. I think its pretty obvious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jigglyfidders (talkcontribs) 06:55, 9 April 2010 (UTC) if you don't believe me you can send her an e-mail on facebook and she would confirm it.Jigglyfidders (talk) 08:01, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Vague references to pictures of "crosses and things and stuff" & last names on a Facebook fan page -- not an official page, as clearly indicated there: "FAN PAGE (non officiel)" -- are not reliable sources. And only reliable sources can be used to source information on Wikipedia, particularly with regard to living persons. Wikipedia has an especially strict policy on that issue & not just any source will do (nevermind personal assurances as you've supplied above). I've therefore removed the material again; kindly stop adding original research. Middayexpress (talk) 19:57, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Jigglyfidders, please take the things Middayexpress said into account. I can't say it better. Airplaneman 20:39, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
I've looked at the history logs of this page and noticed that many of the additions Jigglyfidders made are very problematic as to their sourcing. I have already removed some of the entries because the sources were nonexistent websites (not merely expired pages, but URL's to websites that never existed) and nonexistent books. 24.217.193.187 (talk) 05:50, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Nazli Sabri[edit]

The article on Nazli Sabri does not mention that she converted, and actually identify her as a Sunni Muslim. The sources attached to her listing in this article are broken if not originally bogus. I suggest that if no one can provide real evidence of her conversion that her name be removed. Ahmed Khalil (talk) 18:58, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

I have fixed this. -- 202.124.73.93 (talk) 13:44, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
I've seen the changes. Thank you. Ahmed Khalil (talk) 19:52, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Akbar the great[edit]

There is no evidence that Akbar the Great ever "changed" his religion and left Islam. The Din-i-Ilahi which is claimed to be founded by him, and thus the one he converted to, is not a religion but a movement based on a statement of policy or a certain point of view. To claim that this is a new religion goes beyond what Akbar himself perceived it as since he never claimed it as such. He never actually coined the name Din-i-Ilahi either. Suggest removing his name from the list.

In general, this article is full of incomplete or bogus information which seem to be included to make a biased point of view and left in place by common complacency. It is meaningless to compile a list of converts to or from one religion or another. I am sure that many of the 1.5 billion Muslims are descendants of the original 100's of millions who converted from other beliefs to Islam, so do we make a list of the say 500 million souls who converted to Islam over the years? Was not Muhammad himself a convert, and his companions, and then all of the inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula, then most of the inhabitants of the Middle East and North Africa, then Iran, then Central Asia, then South Asia, then East Asia? And let us not forget Sub-Saharan Africa, and later Europe, and America. It is utter nonsense. The same is true for other religions. Most Christians are descentants of converts, millions of them. Hindus, Buhddists or whatever are all descendants of converts and we have 2 billion of them; their ancestors who converted to these religions must have numbered in the 100's of millions.

As for leaving a religion, most people noted here are only known because they claimed to have left Islam and thus became celebrated in biased media circles. But really, what is the importance of a person who changed religion to get married to a spouse of a different religion, or someone who wanted to get a visa and come to the West. These people are of no value to either religion, the one they left and the one they joined. As for the few who matter based on their own worth, then their conversion one way or another is only valuable if it was based on some religious insight, not personal gain (like a politician in order to get elected) or lack of belief to start with. And then, what is the point of compiling a list? Are we having a contest between religions to see which one will accumulate a longer list of converts? Sorry, but this is stupid.

I see that there is a request to delete this page, and I recomment its deletion. Ahmed Khalil (talk) 00:28, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

I would probably agree with you if there werent pages on people leaving christianity and judaism.MilkStraw532 (talk) 23:00, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Yes, and I do not see the point of them all. If nothing, then they all should be confined to a certain criteria for inclusion based on the importance of the person and the basis of his/her conversion, and certainly should not contain living persons since these can change their beliefs as they wish before they die (as we can see that these lists contain persons who have changed their religion a few times already). Ahmed Khalil (talk) 18:14, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
this guy is contributing in the convert to islam list while he's giving us that crap [3] You're unbelievable man! --الزمخشري (talk) 17:02, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
It is obvious that your ability to comprehend is limited. My comments and contributions on this and other pages show my efforts to improve them as long as they exist on WP. I asked for corrections when needed and did not vandalize the pages by deleting or altering enteries without checking with previous editors. I added Diana Haddad becaus it happened that I had just read her page that day and that information was there. I will also add more people if I ever cared to find out their "conversion" status at some point in the fututre or happened to know it by chance. Anyway, as long as these pages exist I will continue checking them for accuracy. Having said that, however, I still question their validity, especially as all inclusive lists. And again, I voiced my concerns in the talk page as the appropriate place for discussion and DID NOT force my opinion on anyone by altering the pages myself in anny manner. Now, if you have something of value to discuss then be my guest; otherwise, go find some other venue for your crusade. Ahmed Khalil (talk) 20:21, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

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