Talk:List of members of the 20 July plot

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Indexes
WikiProject icon This alphabetical index of Wikipedia articles falls within the scope of the WikiProject Indexes. This is a collaborative effort to create, maintain, and improve alphabetical indexes on Wikipedia.
 
WikiProject Military history (Rated List-Class)
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
List This article has been rated as List-Class on the quality assessment scale.
WikiProject Germany (Rated List-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
 List  This article has been rated as List-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Biography (Rated List-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.
 List  This article has been rated as List-Class on the project's quality scale.
 
WikiProject Lists (Rated List-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
 List  This article has been rated as List-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 

Untitled[edit]

What might "i. G." in "Oberst i.G" mean?

Tabletop 06:00, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

i.G. (German: im Generalstab) means: in the General Staff I was wondering whether it is a good idea to translate the titles of the persons into english?

Caesium 17:06, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Excellent idea ;)

Changes made 1/5/2007[edit]

A bunch of style fixes mainly.

1) All military titles were capitalized consistently

2) Title and description added for Hans Speidel

3) Correct title/description and dates added for Karl Sack

4) Helmuth Stieff entry now links to article

5) Entry style made uniform as <title/rank> <name>, brief description (born-died)

6) For a General Staff officer, the phrase was always placed after his rank

7) The excessively long description for Prince Louis Ferdinand was replaced with "Hohenzollern pretender"

8) Some punctuation and spelling errors fixed

--Rich Rostrom 00:29, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Expand to include witnesses and opponents[edit]

How about including a section listing the opponents like Otto Ernst Remer and others, and one for witnesses, like drivers, secretaries, relatives and other pieces of the puzzle? They were not directly part of the plot, of course, but involved, so a move to List of persons of the July 20 Plot would be a good idea. Their reports are often shown in documentaries, so it would be helpful to have their data listed here in an overview.

  • Kurt Salterberg, guard in the Wolfsschanze at "Sperrkreis I A"
  • Rudolf Kuphal, soldier of Wachbattalion Großdeutschland, witness of executions
  • Hans W. Splinter, motorcyclist at Allgemeines Heeresamt
  • Rittmeister Möllendorf, ordered Wolfsschanze guards to let Stauffenberg's car leave
  • Schweizer, butler of Stauffenberg in Berlin, both speaking with Swabian accent to each other in Stauffenberg (Film)

-- Matthead  Discuß   23:20, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Helmuth James Graf von Moltke not part of the plot[edit]

I propose to eliminate von Moltke from this list because Roland Freisler, the judge at his trial, found no evidence that Moltke had participated in any conspiracy to bring about a coup d'état. Freisler instead determined to be treasonous the fact that von Moltke and his friends had discussed a Germany based on moral and democratic principles that could develop after Hitler. User:HopsonRoad 02:30, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I understand removing the name of a person as not really being involved. But! I have to state that in my opinion there were many on the list that probably were not involved, other than having their names included as a means of "cleansing" undesirables from the party. Since we can assume that at least some of the judges "might" have been supporters of Hitler there is a good chance that some totally innocent people were found guilty thus "members".

This person was found not guilty but, it seems to me, was still considered as a member of the plot that was exonerated. I am just saying that if all that were found guilty then would have had a fair trial, how many more would have been exonerated? Again, to me, a name of someone accused, therefore considered a member at the time, should be included for fairness, and the information provided concerning the exoneration. It is history that the man went on trial for a reason. The reason, as far as I understand, was not jay-walking but because his name was included as one of the "members of the 20 July plot". Am I wrong in my supposition? Otr500 (talk) 03:34, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

  • All the chat that goes on and one would think an answer to a valid question would be answered. I guess this means the name should be added back by default. Otr500 (talk) 01:26, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Dietrich Bonhoeffer not directly involved[edit]

Though Dietrich Bonhoeffer worked for the Abwehr and had family connections to the plotters, he was in now way directly invovled with this assassination attempt (regardless of whatever he may have thought of it). Bonhoeffer was not arrested because of this plot-- he was arrested because of his involvement with smuggling seven Jews out of the country, as well as the general tensions between the Abwehr and the SS. For that, see the wikipedia section on his arrest.[1] See a recent book for an examination of the way that Bonhoeffer's role in the Abwehr as been greatly exagerrated. (Bonhoeffer the Assassin?: Challenging the Myth, Recovering His Call to Peacemaking) At the very least, his role is in dispute, and the list should reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.132.43.45 (talk) 14:47, 1 November 2013 (UTC)