Talk:List of metropolitan areas in India

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Previous Unlabeled Comment[edit]

I couldn't relocate the exact .jpg I used, but the info's all over the net, so I've cited a reliable source at the bottom of the page that can be referred to. The numbers are the same. Thanks for the hard work 'text'ing it all, and I apologize for my sloppiness with citation! --LordSuryaofShropshire 13:38, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC)

Update[edit]

2010 World Gazetteer figures are out. Adding the update tag if anyone wants to update the article before I get the chance to. Elockid (Talk·Contribs) 03:50, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Update finished. Elockid (Talk·Contribs) 18:22, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Pune Metropolitan Region is the seventh largest in India GreenExcalibur (talk) 14:28, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

References[edit]

Delhi population wrong[edit]

It says 46,049,032 despite both refs 1 and 2 saying around 21,753,486. Am I missing something here? ‑Ugog Nizdast (talk) 12:35, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Ref2 is provisional, not final.--Vin09 (talk) 12:45, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── 4.60 is correct per this ref, ref2 it is metro region. MCR is not delhi alone, it covers NCT-Delhi, Haryana, Rajasthan also.--Vin09 (talk) 12:52, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Providing Accurate Information[edit]

Who ever edits this page please make sure yoi provide correct information based on statistics. I've noticed that the Information provided on this page is not accurate. GreenExcalibur (talk) 14:30, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

@GreenExcalibur:Please report which info is inaccurate.--Vin09(talk) 14:54, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

India list[edit]

What incorrect information are you referring to? This sourced list was already at the article. What alternative sourced list do you have? Eldumpo (talk) 12:34, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

@Eldumpo: First of all check List of million-plus urban agglomerations in India. Here it is metropolitan region. Also, read the first para of your refrence As per the preliminary results of the Census 2011 which means they are not final (but provisional). Can even check List_of_metropolitan_areas_of_the_United_States which has a heading in first column Metropolitan area which you removed here.--Vin09(talk) 13:00, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
  • The authorities have wiki links already adjacent to the specific metropolitan region, so need of any citation tags.--Vin09(talk) 11:59, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

OK, so there is already a UA article, so where is the sourced list showing Indian 'Metropolitan Areas'? In the absence of that there must be a doubt about the notability of this Wikipedia list. Eldumpo (talk) 20:18, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

All information in Wikipedia should be directly cited (especially when challenged/tagged), and a link to another Wikipedia page is not enough. In the absence of any kind of referenced list showing these Metropolitan areas how can you argue it is notable for 'Urban Planning Authority' to be one of the columns? Eldumpo (talk) 20:25, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
@Eldumpo: its not an arguement, if your point is correct then definitely I'll obey, but only the thing is it should not be an issue in future edits, so a detailed discussion is needed. I'll involve other editors also to have their valuable opinion, whatever is correct we'll keep that. @Vensatry, Human3015, Arjayay, Titodutta, Utcursch, and Sitush: Earlier there was a discussion to move List of towns in India by population, when this page was also in the discussion. Please provide your opinion on the discussion.Vin09(talk) 05:19, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
I had a look at the previous move discussions although couldn't see any specific mention of this 'metropolitan areas' list? This list needs to follow core Wikipedia policies such as WP:N, WP:V, and also WP:SYNTHESIS. Eldumpo (talk) 09:25, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
Not specifically discussed, just I remember there was a mention. Whatever, we've started here so not a big problem. Let's wait for others views.--Vin09(talk) 09:35, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
  • I would like to agree with Vin09 that this is a list on "metropolitan areas" and not on "million-plus urban agglomerations". Though there is not an official list like there is for "million-plus urban agglomerations", as long as the current entries cite reliable sources which talk about that particular region (like "Pune Metropolitan Area"), there should not be a problem. Perhaps give WP:SYNTHNOT a look. Best, Yash! 09:26, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
    • This is apparently a list of 'metropolitan areas' but following reliable sources is a key part of Wikipedia, so there is a problem if this is just a collection of information arbitrarily pulled together. Synthnot is an essay, why not concentrate instead on Synth which is part of official policy? The Pune source doesn't even have a population figure! Eldumpo (talk) 08:30, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
      • List of towns in India by population, List of municipal corporations in India all these are similar kind, which do not have a listings on a single reference.--Vin09(talk) 08:57, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
        • All uncited lists have the potential to be challenged, and lists should stand on their own merits, not just as a result of other Wikipedia articles, which are also liable to be questioned. Eldumpo (talk) 17:15, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
      • "This essay is intended to help explain the spirit of that policy. In particular, this essay is intended to oppose taking an excessively strict interpretation of the policy in many cases. After all, Wikipedia does not have firm rules." It is not something that was arbitrarily put together since the metropolitan areas are legitimate. So there are a few issues with some sources which certainly can be fixed. As long as those metropolitan areas exist and are referred to as so, and there being sources which mention the population number, I really don't see how this would appear to be synthesis of published material. The policy states that material from source A should not be combined with material from source B to conclude C. Nothing is being concluded over here and it is just a simple list. I fail to see how this list would not comply with our policies. Yash! 20:12, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
        • Why focus on essays rather than policies and guidelines? It is arbitrary in that it is deciding just because these authorities/metro areas generally have 'metropolitan' in their title they should be included here? However, I note the Andra Pradesh entry does not have this wording so why is it in the list? Given the massive differences in areas between a number of the 'metro areas' it's difficult to see the rationale for bundling them all together. The Pune source mentions that it includes 857 villages, doesn't sound like a standard 'metro area' to me! Eldumpo (talk) 22:01, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
        • The first para clearly explains the existence of such an urban area in India. The reference is from government sites. About the list, the reference are provided alternatively now.--Vin09(talk) 08:30, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────@Eldumpo: As per your point, I've added proper references and removed unsourced ones and non metro areas. I restored an earlier version, but only for adding correct info from the scratch. Reply back if you want anything to be done.--Vin09(talk) 06:10, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm not at all convinced of the notability of this list, and believe it is complete Synthesis. However, it seems there is no consensus at this stage to not have a 'metro area' list, but at the very least all entries have to clearly have a source showing 'metro area'. There are still a few that do not meet that. Eldumpo (talk) 20:39, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
See, I understand what you were pointing in the above discussion. I say the wording exists, but only thing is, there is no reference available as of now for all the lists to be at one place. But still I try to keep it updated as you said with good reference. Let's see for more suggestions from others.--Vin09(talk) 04:44, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for noting the difficulties in this list, without the presence of a reliable list source. I have marked a few other entries as needing a source, as there is no reference to metropolitan. Eldumpo (talk) 11:12, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
@Eldumpo: Check Ref1 and Ref2. Both the maps are Delhi-NCR's. Also, read the definition on the article talk page. An entry need not metro in the name. It may have any equivalent name.--Vin09(talk) 11:41, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
Where is the reliable source indicating that metropolitan areas can also refer to an 'equivalent name'. Do you mean like 'urban agglomerations'? In which case, perhaps this page should just redirect to the India UA article. Eldumpo (talk) 11:48, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
@Eldumpo: I've clearly stated in the first part of the discusison, UA is different. I'm referring to National Capital Region and the core city is Delhi. It may not have name like Delhi Metropiolitan Area/Region. The definition clearly says "an area having a population of ten lakhs or more, comprised in one or more districts and consisting of two or more Municipalities or Panchayats or other contiguous areas, specified by the Governor by public notification to be a Metropolitan area with a core city. I'm only referring to Delhi. Above two maps in the references are clearly states the same thing.--Vin09(talk) 11:56, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
That definition only seems to indicate that once cities are big enough they get referred to as municipalities, but it does not state that municipalities/metro areas have a different definition of measurement than cities. Eldumpo (talk) 13:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Please note, contiguous areas can be equivalent to Urban agglomerations and Census towns or any urban out growths and all are subset of a Metropolitan Area.--Vin09(talk) 11:59, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Have you got a source for this? Eldumpo (talk) 13:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
Ok, for clear understanding, check, check it, UA and Metro Area are different. You asked earlier too.--Vin09(talk) 03:42, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
  • Check THIS REF which states Delhi National Capital Region is the first Metro area, second is Bangalore and third as Hyderabad.--Vin09(talk) 12:09, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
    • Not sure how reliable the source is, but it has a different position for Bangalore and Hyderabad than our list. However, it refers to 'urban development authority'. Eldumpo (talk) 13:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
Erstwhile urban development authority was merged in HMDA. A government site is not reliable? You say it is not equal to our list. You have removed 2011 estimates given by their sites. I don't oppose that. That's the reason the ranking may vary, as Mumbai is 2005 data.--Vin09(talk) 03:35, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
It is not equal to our list as it is referring to 'urban development authority'. If you think that is one and the same thing as 'metro area' then do you think the source is correct in saying that Mumbai and Kolkata are not in the top 3 of India's 'metro areas'?Eldumpo (talk) 20:48, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
I'm referring to Hyderabad not about any ranking, HUDA was merged in HMDA. Also, removal of a newspaper source is not correct when they stating 2011 figures. If you have any issue I said to state here, we'll discuss, than removing ref.--Vin09(talk) 05:35, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────You said urban development authority is not the body for metropolitan area, check Visakhapatnam Ref. VUDA takes care of VMR region.--Vin09(talk) 06:16, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Break[edit]

There's not enough context on that Rediff link. It seem's the ultimate source is Allianz Knowledge but if you search you get this page which refers to urban areas not metro areas. There's nothing wrong in some entries having older dates if that represents the best source available. Eldumpo (talk) 07:08, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

@Eldumpo: I say Mumbai population is 2011's. This ref and many others support it a population of 20 million. I didn't remove but asking you to add the best one.--Vin09(talk) 07:17, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Please note THIS REF has Figures (in lakhs) As per Census 2011 if you add them, it easily crosses 2.5 crore mark, so the present figure easily be taken into consideration which are stated in the table as 2011 census.--Vin09(talk) 07:21, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Suggestion - what about using the Indian entries on this list, as the basis for this article, that at least provides us with a sourced list. Would stick to around 5 Million cut-off though so it doesn't get too long. The list would have to change name to 'urban areas' though. Eldumpo (talk) 07:24, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

@Eldumpo: Please read 3rd page, it says an urban area is fundamentally different from a metropolitan area. Also, I say an urban area includes urban agglomerations, towns, cities, nagar panchayats and out growths per census 2011.--Vin09(talk) 07:37, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
OK, but there is no sensible source for this 'metro areas list'. No reliable source seems to be listing 'Indian metro areas' so it is virtually impossible to have a sensible list, as you have to Synthesise by selecting individual sources that happen to refer to 'metro' and knowing you may not be comparing like for like. Eldumpo (talk) 07:43, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
I say the wording exists, but as we came to a conclusion earlier, let's keep it short this way with available ones. Your opinion.--Vin09(talk) 08:00, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you mean by 'the wording exists'. Yes there are examples of use of the term 'metropolitan areas/regions' but not in any kind of structured or systematic sense. Often the same source refers interchangeably to urban area or agglomeration. In the absence of a sourced list, any entry must have a clear (reliable) source referring to 'metropolitan area'. I'm not convinced all entries can currently say this i.e. Delhi/NCR. Eldumpo (talk) 14:50, 2 April 2016 (UTC)