Talk:List of oldest dogs
|WikiProject Dogs||(Rated List-class, Low-importance)|
- 1 Cats?
- 2 Bluey and Others Over 24 Yrs of Age: "Dog" Entry on Wikipedia Says "NO!"
- 3 Moving from unverified to verified
- 4 There are older cats
- 5 Oldest pets on record
- 6 Another dog
- 7 Sources issue
- 8 Pusuke and Max
- 9 Re: List of "oldest dogs" is NOT correct
- 10 PLEASE fix the errors on "Oldest Dogs" page!
- 11 The cattle dog study is not allowed as a reference.
- 12 The best way to fix this.
- 13 Max
I agree 100 percent. There should be a cat list. -
Bluey and Others Over 24 Yrs of Age: "Dog" Entry on Wikipedia Says "NO!"
Wikipedia contradicts itself because the Wikipedia page on the entry for "Dog" claims the following in Section 4.1.1 entitled "Mortality":
The dog widely reported to be the longest-lived is "Bluey," who died in 1939 and was claimed to be 29.5 years old at the time of his death; however, the Bluey record is anecdotal and unverified. The longest verified records are of dogs living for 24 years.
So my question is, wtf is going on here? The great Wikipedia contradicts itself once again, and the problem of moderators on one entry not being on the same page as moderators in another entry rears its ugly head. Clearly at least one of these two entries MUST be false with complete and utter bogus, hogwash, b.s., for content. In fact, it's possible BOTH entries have it wrong, and the truth is that no one knows and conflicting reports, both from reputable sources, exist, and both entries are claiming that one or another side of the argument is "the truth". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 03:46, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Moving from unverified to verified
Wikipedia is not a web-hosting service for Guinness. Verified vs. unverified cannot be Guinness vs all other sources.
I'm undertaking a review of the sources for the unverified. If a reliable source reports that a dog is a particular age, it belongs in the "verified" group. It's important to read the sories and not just the headlines.
If a source just says "believed to be" a certain age, and Guinness disagrees, that belongs in the unverified column. But if a reliable source says the dog was a certain age, and says "believed to be the oldest in the country" that's verified, even if Guinness doesn't agree.
- Mind-numbingly, aggravating work. I'll come back to try to review more refs, but I'm taking a break. Others welcome to pitch in. Please do not revert this to a page that treats only GWR as a reliable source. Beyond that, tho, please feel free to review sources. The ones I havent looked at, at all, are those below #3 in the unverified list. David in DC (talk) 19:08, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
Okay, y'all appear to have gotten rid of all vestige of the 'unverified' list, except that the actual text of the article still makes extensive reference to it, including to specific dogs on it and to the Guinness records as the authoritative source. And I can't fix that, since I have no idea how you eventually ended up ruling as far as the list vs the Guinness list goes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 07:03, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
There are older cats
I met one in 1970 that was still around in 2002 before I retired, so 32+ for the felines. Anyone feel like making a page? The fictional dog Charlie in "The Final Countdown" was only about 3 or 4, but lived from the 1940's to the 1980's. That would be a record if they had pedigreed him. :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 01:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Oldest pets on record
http://mysmelly.com/content/other_articles/oldest-pets-on-record/revision/1.htm --Nick Ornstein (talk) 01:00, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
Well, this can not be verified by any means, but in the 1990s I remember a Hungarian vizsla in our neighbourhood in the 13th district of Budapest that was claimed to be over 21 years old, and indeed he looked like so. I just started breeding German Shepherds back then. Nobody has ever recorded this, and I don't even remember its owner. Unfortunately not even the name of the dog. Does this count? :)
My name is Melissa Dutton,I have a Chow Sheppard she is 19 yrs old.She has been such a blessing to my life.I hope and pray I have her many more yrs to come. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 17:37, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
I'm concerned with the lack of updated sources on this page, I mean do we really know that some of these dogs are still alive?
When Pusuke died he was the world's oldest dog according to Guinness World Records and yet according to this page Max and Minius (both still living) were older than him at the time of his death. I think we should be asking why that was. Was the reason that Max and Minius were unverified by Guinness, or have they died and their deaths have gone unreported. I've looked for news articles on both of them and can't find anything later than the sources already presented here, and these sources date back a few years each.
I know that we can't just assume that a particular dog has died without any sources to prove, but I think it may be a problem with this page that these cases are reported less in the media than, say, longevity cases in humans. It's always easy to come across when the world's oldest person passes away, it's reported quite thoroughly, but this may not be the case for our animal friends.
I'm aware that this issue will be difficult to solve, but it would eventually become a problem if a lack of sources meant a certain dog was to appear to have immortality. Burbridge92 (talk) 10:45, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
- This needs to be followed up and I believe many of these listings removed. After a couple of years and attempts to verify, there has yet to be any citations added. Remove all unsourced dogs.Seola (talk) 02:47, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Pusuke and Max
Re: List of "oldest dogs" is NOT correct
The Wikipedia list of "oldest dogs" that is attributed to Guinness World Records is not true. For example, on the list "Bluey" is listed as 2nd oldest...but on the GWR website it lists "Bluey" as the oldest!
I have been in contact with Guinness regarding this list and was told that no such list actually exists!
I have been in touch with Guinness on this subject as I had submitted my dog..."Jake" (Rat Terrier)...to GWR for a new record that was being started. "Jake" held that record of "Worlds Oldest Dog...Living" for 6 days. Jake lived for 21 years 6 days..from July 21, 1994 until July 27, 2015. I have tried to add him to the Wikipedia page for oldest dogs several times but someone keeps removing him despite the fact that I have provided my contact person' name at GWR, etc over and over.
So....someone needs to do some homework and fix the page as it is FAR from correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rtotoj (talk • contribs) 17:27, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
- Rtotoj, you would be incorrect. The title of the page says VERIFIED, meaning that just because you have papers, doesn't mean it's been verified. Guinness has a process that it goes through. Try looking at the citation from ABC News on Max and you'll see why you're having trouble with proving Jake.
- I don't know who you spoke to at Guinness, but out of mere curiosity I called them too. They said there IS such a list. I would quit ranting about it here because of your dog not being on it and go take care of it instead. This is not the forum to try to prove yourself. MagnoliaSouth (talk) 06:46, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
I...Ronald W. Johnson, Jr....have the Guinness World Record certificate for 'oldest dog living' hanging in my dining room. My Rat Terrier..."Jake"...was awarded the record on July 21, 2015. I would post a photo of the certificate...and will..if someone can tell me how to do it here on Wikipedia. "Jake" appears on numerous websites, etc. that also talk about the oldest cat living. One such article can be found on CNN... http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/living/guinness-oldest-living-cat-feat/index.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rtotoj (talk • contribs) 00:43, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
PLEASE fix the errors on "Oldest Dogs" page!
PLEASE...someone...anyone...fix the MAJOR errors on the "oldest dogs" page. The listing of oldest dogs..."according to Guinness"..is NOT true and does NOT come from Guinness! I know this because for well over a year I have been in communication with Guinness regarding my Rat Terrier..."Jake". My contact person at Guinness...Victoria Tweedy...has told me that no such list exists. Heck, even on the Guinness World record website it lists "Bluey" as being the oldest dog that ever lived...but the Wikipedia page has him listed as second! My "Jake" was awarded the "oldest dog living" record on July 21, 2015 and I have the certificate hanging on my wall...yet the folks at Wikipedia refuse to change anything despite my numerous attempts to get the page corrected. Please do something!
- Please see my comments above. The very same user posted this as did the comments above. Posting it a thousand times won't make it happen.MagnoliaSouth (talk) 06:48, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
I...Ronald W. Johnson, Jr....have the Guinness World Record certificate for 'oldest dog living' hanging in my dining room. My Rat Terrier..."Jake"...was awarded the record on July 21, 2015. I would post a photo of the certificate...and will..if someone can tell me how to do it here on Wikipedia. "Jake" appears on numerous websites, etc. that also talk about the oldest cat living. One such article can be found on CNN... http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/living/guinness-oldest-living-cat-feat/index.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rtotoj (talk • contribs) 00:45, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
The cattle dog study is not allowed as a reference.
Lee, P. (2011). Longevity of the Australian Cattle Dog: Results of a 100-Dog Survey. ACD Spotlight, Vol. 4, Issue 1, Spring 2011, 96–105. The Manual of Style says that Wikipedia cannot reference itself. The study cites a Wikipedia article as part of its research, so the reference must be removed. I am doing so now. Surely another reference can be found for it. MagnoliaSouth (talk) 06:30, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- Wikipedia was not referencing Wikipedia; a study referenced Wikipedia, and the study was cited. I regard this as an inappropriate use of MOS:SELFREF to achieve a sub-optimal outcome. William Harris • talk • 09:59, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
- Additionally, Guinness lists Bluey as the oldest living dog:http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/oldest-dog Will editors that normally contribute to this page address this matter or shall I? William Harris • talk • 10:27, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
- Now addressed. William Harris • talk • 21:14, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
The best way to fix this.
To begin with, the source for Guinness is sloppy and doesn't cite page numbers, edition numbers, etc. You can't just say GBoWR and leave it at that. If you're going to say that it came from the book, then cite it properly.
Second, each dog needs at least two references, three tops. Each dog may be considered controversial so it's been my experience that two reputable sources, not your papers on your dog or your neighbor who can verify it, but reputable such as one published with a reputable publishing house, periodical, etc. Not The National Enquirer or The Sun that reported an alien abducted a dog for 30 years, then returned him.
I do not have access to the many editions of GBoWR, so I cannot verify that nor correct them. I can however Google some of these dogs, if I have time. I'd be more than willing to format the references if someone can provide me a simple list of the GBoWR. Ex: 1975 Pedro pg 264, 1981 George pg 786, etc. Just post it on my talk page please.
- "The following canines' ages were authenticated via Guinness World Records." How so? The method needs to be replicated easily by other editors on Wikipedia to meet the requirements specified in WP:PROVEIT - else the material can be challenged and removed. Additionally, "A document is required by Guinness, such as a birth certificate, to prove his or her age as true." Where did that come from? William Harris • talk • 00:50, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
- Yeah, where did that come from Will? I don't see where I said that anywhere? If your judgement is as good as your accuracy then you've rendered this entire article questionable, at best. Let me guess, did you have something to do with that study? Any study that cites Wikipedia is not considered scholarly to begin with. I'm not saying I agree, but because of inaccurate articles and insufficient sources (ABC News, remember removing that in favor of a study that has nothing at all to do with a list?) that does make one question it. Sorry, but you have failed to make a case here. In fact, I'm not even sure exactly what your case is. You added back citations that were unclear and but I added a news source that you removed. Do you have a dog that didn't make the list? Or did you write that so-called study? You quote things at me, as if I wrote them. Someone who understands Wikipedia will show you that I had nothing at all to do with the comments you've quoted above. Sorry, but your attitude coupled with your unresearched claims renders your writing, incorrect. MagnoliaSouth (talk) 19:57, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
- Someone posted a complaint with Wikiproject Dogs regarding the list on the List page and that "someone removes the information". That has brought me to this page.
- I looked through this Talk page and found some strange things have happened here in the posts above and confirm that this is not an isolated event.
- I looked at the List page and found some strange things happening there as well.
- The List page says that "The following canines' ages were authenticated via Guinness World Records."
- The first dog on the list is "Max". The first citation is the web homepage of GWR. A search on that page for the term oldest dog returns the page http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/oldest-dog and the name Bluey. The citation does not support Max as the oldest dog. The second citation for Max is an ABC media interview with an owner who purports that she owns the world's oldest dog, claims to have sent papers to GWR, but as yet "hasn't got a reply". Nothing the owner says is verifiable, and no documents were shown on the TV interview even though the owner had the opportunity.
- In summary, there is nothing supporting Max being listed in the GWR and therefore on the List of oldest dogs.
- "In Wikipedia, verifiability means that anyone using the encyclopedia can check that the information comes from a reliable source" - WP:VERIFY. This makes it self-correcting. In this instance, I am the corrector - I have made edits and make WP:CITE, WP:VERIFY and WP:RELIABLE available so that others can familiarize themselves with these Wikipedia policies.
Please answer the following 2 questions very carefully: Do you believe that GWR:http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/oldest-dog is wrong, yes or no? If yes, on what basis?
William Harris • WikiProject Dogs • talk • 09:27, 13 October 2015 (UTC)