Talk:List of primary destinations on the United Kingdom road network

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Redhill?[edit]

Is Redhill a Primary Destination? I would think it is to close to Reigate and so i have removed it from the list. please correct me if I am wrong. FM talk to me | show contributions ]  08:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is. It appears in the LTN 1/94 (the central government list of primary destination), which as far as I have found is the only official documentation. RTW and Uckfield are not, although they may appear on maps as such. They may well be primary destinations by virtue of another factor, but until a citation can be provided to substantiate it per wp:v, then they should not be included.  — MapsMan talk | cont ] — 13:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Dorset[edit]

Not sure about Wimborne... my road atlas doesn't show it as such. Signs on the A31 are signed Dorchester/Ringwood, but older ones do say Wimborne.

Portland definitely is though, despite not really being a town. 212.137.63.86 (talk) 12:30, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Road atlases do not always confer with the DfT guidance; unless, of course, some other reference was used published after LTN 1/94.  — MapsMan talk | cont ] — 19:17, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Scotland[edit]

Can Scotland be broken down into regions as has happened for England and Wales? Also, the introduction to the article describes Crianlarich and Scotch Corner as towns - they are villages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.12.7.4 (talk) 08:58, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

It actually said "small towns" but if you want to debate semantics...
The national/regional subdivisions are as per the original Government document, which did not include any counties/regions in Scotland; this is probably because the DfT doesn't cover Scotland, so they may have lifted a pre-existing Scottish Office guidance. I have deliberately retained the original counties/regions from the referenced source to avoid any debates over whether historic counties or any other division should be used. I hope that clears that up. — MapsMan talk | cont ] — 19:07, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Map references[edit]

Are there official OS map references for primary destinations? Or do, say, large urban areas and dispersed rural villages lack precise location? Laurel Bush (talk) 10:37, 6 September 2008 (UTC).

No, the reference document only lists places, or like "Teeside", areas.  — MapsMan talk | cont ] — 22:00, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Locations could be almost anywhere?
The official list might be practically meaningless?
Laurel Bush (talk) 17:36, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Humberside[edit]

Why is Humberside listed, when it hasn't existed for over a decade. It should be split into East Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.61.68 (talk) 23:26, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

As stated in the article's footnotes, the county structure is as at 1994, the date the list of destinations was published. This is to make it easier to compare destinations to the published source.  — MapsMan talk | cont ] — 21:56, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Updated list[edit]

An updated Primary Destination list has been published. [1]

Regards, FM talk to me | show contributions ]  20:22, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

This list is now organised by region, instead of redundant local government divisions: the whole article needs to be reorganised. 195.200.159.2 (talk) 08:01, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
This has been done, apart form Northern Ireland. Does anybody know where there is a list, or should the information be gleaned from a reputable atlas (and noted as such). Martinvl (talk) 12:45, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Northern Ireland list[edit]

The Northern Ireland list has been removed by User:82.26.72.129‎ on the grounds that http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php? (and implicitly the Sabre website more generally) is not a reliable source.

Recent DfT documents for England allude to devolved responsibility for determining primary destinations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, so presumably there exists an official list of primary destinations in Northern Ireland (possibly including cross-border destinations such as Dublin), maintained by the Northern Ireland Executive.

An official NI list does not seem to have been published online, though it would presumably be available under Freedom of Information.

A 2004 NI Roads Service publication provides "indicative" maps of the Northern Ireland primary route network and of NI classified roads (Appendix 3 on page 42 and Appendix 4 on page 43 respectively). These maps include labels for major towns outside Belfast, which might or might not correspond to non-Belfast NI primary destinations. The labels on these official road maps compare with the deleted Wikipedia article text as follows:

[Table re-edited to also include a column for highlighted places on ViaMichelin]
Destination Original wiki list NI Roads Service maps ViaMichelin
Annalong Appendixes 3 and 4
Antrim wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Armagh wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Ballycastle wiki Appendixes 3 and 4
Ballymena wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Banbridge Appendixes 3 and 4
Bangor wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Belfast wiki ViaMichelin
Belfast City Airport wiki
Belfast International Airport wiki ViaMichelin (as "Belfast Airport")
Broughshane Appendixes 3 and 4
Carrickfergus wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Castlewellan Appendixes 3 and 4
Coleraine wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Comber wiki Appendix 3 only
Cookstown wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Craigavon wiki Appendix 3 only ViaMichelin
Crossmaglen Appendixes 3 and 4
Downpatrick wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Dungannon wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Dungiven Appendixes 3 and 4
Enniskillen wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Larne wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Limavady Appendixes 3 and 4
Lisburn wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Londonderry wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin (as "Londonderry/Derry")
Lurgan Appendix 4 only
Maghera Appendixes 3 and 4
Magherafelt Appendixes 3 and 4
Maguiresbridge Appendixes 3 and 4
Moneymore Appendixes 3 and 4
Newcastle wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Newry wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Newtownards wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Newtownbutler Appendixes 3 and 4
Newtownstewart Appendixes 3 and 4
Omagh wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Portadown Appendixes 3 and 4
Portrush Appendixes 3 and 4
Sion Mills Appendixes 3 and 4
Strabane wiki Appendixes 3 and 4 ViaMichelin
Toome Appendixes 3 and 4
Warrenpoint wiki ViaMichelin

The maps do not state whether the labels are intended to indicate primary destinations but clearly the deleted article text and the map labels are sufficiently different to leave doubt as to which NI places are official primary destinations.

Richardguk (talk) 01:49, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

The list should be re-instated, possibly with a note that SABRE is not neccessarily a reliable source. Perhaps the editor concerned should update the list to indicate soures that he has found rather than to just delete sections wholesale. The image should be reinstated regardless of the rest of the section. Martinvl (talk) 07:40, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
May I suggesat that you visit www.michelin.com, and zoom into Northernm Ireland. The map there shows primary destinations and is probably authoritative. This is far better thna just deleting information that is probably 90% correct. Martinvl (talk) 12:59, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
I have added a column in the table above to show which places in NI are highlighted in green at ViaMichelin (at zoom levels 6 and 7, where 1 is the most detailed zoom). Since no places in the Republic of Ireland are shown with similar highlighting, and since primary destinations are a well-established concept in France (home of Michelin), it seems reasonable to conclude that the the highlighting is intended to indicate official primary destinations. Belfast International Airport is only shown at zoom level 6, and is labelled as "Belfast Airport". The omission of a green label for Belfast City Airport might be because it overlaps with Belfast itself, or because the Michelin map is out of date, or because it has not yet been made an official primary destination (note that Birmingham Airport, East Midlands Airport and Luton Airport were only added to the official English list in December 2011).
On that basis, I propose that we reinstate the NI list, but listing just the places highlighted at ViaMichelin (and therefore excluding Ballycastle, Belfast City Airport and Comber which were previously listed in the article).
Richardguk (talk) 14:53, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
If you nose arounf the map you will find a link that explains the notations - it has words to the effect that the town names with green boundaries are signposted on green signs - and primary locations are signposted on green signs. I therefore agree that the list can be re-instated, but wioth a reference to the Michelin map. Martinvl (talk) 15:17, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Ah, missed that, well spotted! Have now also added a link to the key. — Richardguk (talk) 21:16, 17 February 2012 (UTC)