Talk:List of pseudo-German words adapted to English
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What is wrong with "schnitzel"?
What exactly is the problem with the word "schnitzel"? Is someone saying the word doesn't exist in German and that it has been made up in English, or that it has changed its original German meaning in English to something else? So does someone think it an English word formed on the analogy of German and which is felt by most English people to be German but is in fact not German?
Let me assure you all, "Schnitzel" is in fact as German as they can get, and every German knows exactly what a "Schnitzel" is. It should never have been in this article in first place, because it is not a pseudo-German word. Believe you me, it is as "echt" German as they can get. I am going to remove it from this article. No wonder nobody could find a source to substantiate its pseudo-Germanness, because there isn't one. Dieter Simon (talk) 22:52, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Let me give you the definition of the word from the Duden I have: "dünne Scheibe Kalb- oder Schweinefleisch, die (oft paniert) in der Pfanne gebraten wird", and the definition of a Wiener Schnitzel is: "paniertes Schnitzel vom Kalb", all of which is translated: 'a thin slice of veal or pork which is (often coated in breadcrumbs) fried in the pan' and that of Wiener Schnitzel: ' veal schnitzel coated in breadcrumbs', that is all. There is no mystique about this and that's all there is to it. If anyone has a special way of preparing his schnitzel is up to them, that doesn't alter the fact of it being a pure German word.Dieter Simon (talk) 23:18, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
- Well, it was in the article when you created it. (Nichts für ungut ) Gruß, Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:07, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, Michael Bednarek, you're absolutely right. At the time I got quite carried away( and a bit excited), because Mikkalai in his wisdom had removed this and the following sections from the original article pseudo-anglicism it had been part of and left it in abeyance (5 Feb, 22.51). Although it's true, it shouldn't have been in the "Pseudo-anglicism" article either, but just to get rid of it without doing something about it or telling anybody, was a bit much. There were two other section reverted as well: "pseudo-Gallicism" and "pseudo-Spanish" (now under List of pseudo-French words adapted to English and Pseudo-Spanish adapted to English). Looking at the three articles, there is yet another article List of French words and phrases used by English speakers into which the other French article should be merged, which I shall do if and when I have a mo. Sorry, yes you're right. Dieter Simon (talk) 17:25, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Additional information on "Schnitzel"
In addition to the issue relating to the word "Schnitzel", that word is definitely of German origin. I am a resident of South Australia. Historically, South Australia has a strong German influence, culturally, linguistically and ethnically. Today the German in South Australia has become so assimilated into the mainstream Australian society although they remained the second largest ethnic group after English.
Now, in South Australia, almost all of the pub as the local refer to Hotel, you would find Schnitzel on the menu. It has always been popular with South Australian. However, for the rest of Australia it is rarely seen on the menu in the pub,that is partly due to lack of German influence in other states of Australia. Many Australian refer to them as Snitz and it is definitely an Australian dialect.
Dieter Simon is right that there are special ways of making Schnitzel. Although in several pubs in South Australia do have Schnitzel on the menu. It is very rare to see Pork Schnitzel on the menu. We often have Chicken Schnitzel and Beef Schnitzel on the menu. In some cases, Veal Schnitzel is on the menu. There is a hybrid version of Schnitzel which is popularly referred as Veal Parmangia Schnitzel or Chicken Parmangia Schnitzel which is an Italian style Schnitzel with Italian and cheese sauce on it.
Overall, Schnitzel is definitely a German word that made inroad into English especially where there are German presence in an English speaking world. It is a word that got stuck in Australian English especially South Australian dialect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 09:41, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
I would also remove the Stein-thing which also lacks citation. It's not very common, but you can also refer to a Bierkrug as "Stein" in German, for example my grandfather couldn't drink cold beer because of his stomach and he would always order his beer "im heissen Stein". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 10:09, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
- I have never heard Stein used in German for a beer mug. If your grandfather used it that way, I suspect it was a very regionalised expression (Austrian?), or you may have misheard Seidel. Anyway, pouring beer into a hot mug seems most barbaric to me — it would kill any head. On the other hand, a Bierwärmer was, and probably still is, a fairly common utensil for those so afflicted. Stein should stay in this list. Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:48, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
- Stein is definitely used as an expression for a 1l beer mug. It may be uncommon and/or regional, but that doesn't qualify it as pseudo-German. It is mentioned here as an old, regional form of litre, used in the Palatinate. Ken Arnold —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 09:52, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
- I'm living in Palatinate and here Stein is definitely used as an expression for an 1l beer mug - similar to the term Maß which is used in Bavaria. So I would support Ken Arnold in his opinion that this disqualifies the term as pseudo-German. If you take into account that the Ramstein Airbase - one of the US largest military bases outside the USA - is located in Palatinate it seems quite possible that the term slipped into usage in the USA. Hendrik 126.96.36.199 (talk) 14:03, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
I would at least change the part about stein. I am german and lived in Palatinate and I can say that the word is used for a 1 litre beer mug regardless of whether it is made out of earthenware or glass. Nevertheless it is not very common in Germany to say stein. By the way it is also not common to wear lederhosen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Weiherberghof (talk • contribs) 23:17, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
"Steinzeug" production did not end in the 19th century. It is still used for "Humpen." See the German articles on those topics (in the latter article: "Der Humpen wurde und wird überwiegend aus Glas oder Steinzeug,"
or e.g., look at companies producing beer mugs out of the stuff: http://www.bierkrugfabrik.de/produkte/steinzeugtoepfe_detail.php . Kdammers (talk) 04:14, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
How would you classify these words? Fatherland is a direct translation from German "Vaterland" but has negative connotations absent in the original German. No English speaker expressing patriotic sentiments would refer to his homeland as the "fatherland", while a German would see nothing wrong with that. In the opposite direction there is folk/Volk, which sounds tame in English but is associated in modern German with Nazism ( "Master race " is "HerrenVolk") CharlesTheBold (talk) 02:36, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not sure how your question relates to this article, "List of pseudo-German words adapted to English".
- The article Fatherland lists many groups that refer to their native country by that term, although I suspect it is indeed a calque, a loan translation, from the German term. I don't believe the word has always negative connotations in English, nor that it never has those in German — that's determined by context. Of course English speakers would not use that term to describe their country of birth, they would use "Motherland" or "Mother Country" or "Homeland", depending on their specific circumstances.
- Volk has many meanings in German, and always had; see de:Volk and Folk#Volk in German. Its usage in English in this spelling, as opposed to the native "folk", probably has mostly negative, or ironic, connotations. However, your assertion that it is associated in modern German with Nazism is unsupported; it is still used in many contexts without these. Also: "master race" is not "Herrenvolk", it's "Herrenrasse" — that is very dubious. A "race" consists of many "Völker" and the term "Herrenvolk" is older than Nazism.
- I can't see how either term belongs into this list. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:56, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
I removed blitz chess because this is used in German as Blitz Schach http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzschach. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Weiherberghof (talk • contribs) 22:47, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
The use of Stein
While Stein means stone in German, it is also used in some regions to refer to a beer mug holding one liter in volume. Most often these mugs are not made from earthenware, but from glass. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 16:52, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
while Blitz is indeed unknown in that meaning (i.e. "blitzing the QB or bombing England) in German there is "blitzschnell" (which could be translated as lightning fast) and the implication in the word "Blitzkrieg" isn't necessarily anything about lightnings but rather how "blitzschnell" the (tank) forces overwhelm the opponent's defences i.e. the first few weeks after D-Day could be classified as an American "Blitzkrieg" (in the German sense of the term) against the Nazis. The term originated pre WW II in tactics manuals but first saw widespread use after the "lightning fast" defeats of Poland, France and the Benelux. Hitler himself btw. later said he didn't like the word (at a point in time where it had become clear that the war against the USSR had nothing "lightning" about it) Long story short all but the few who know a lot about British culture (or football for that matter) would say a "Blitzkrieg" involves tanks rather than aerial bombardment (although this was of course a part of Nazi operations in France 1940 and Poland 1939). I hope that leaves more clarity than confusionHobbitschuster (talk) 17:15, 3 December 2014 (UTC)