Talk:Living on the Ceiling
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Sitar and tablas[edit]
I think 3RR may now have been broken, by an anon ip editor, over this detail, which some may even regard as trivia. I have already agreed that the session musicians involved need not be mentioned by name - especially if we only have their first names (but that in itself is not a clear rule, as Gerry Rafferty's "Baker Street" shows us) And no-one is suggesting that this was the first or only pop record to have used these instruments. But I still think it was most unusual in its era - indeed, was there any other? And it's not just the use of the instruments themselves. It's the fact that their contribution, in the overall structure of the song. is quite distinct. I wonder do any other editors have an opinion on this? I imagine that many people who hear this record for the first time might well say to themselves "what an unusual sound, how did they make that?" and then consult wikipedia to try amd find out. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:50, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Firstly, 3RR has not been broken. Secondly, even though you now agree with this point, I'll reiterate that sessions musicians on records (particularly singles) do not need to be included unless they are of some notability - these two aren't and the album doesn't even list their full names. What would the point of listing two first names in an article be? It tells the reader absolutely nothing. Thirdly, your message above reads more like opinion rather than fact, and crosses the line into WP:OR. Unless Blancmange were the first band to use these instruments on a mainstream hit record in the western world, it adds nothing to the article. The Beatles and The Rolling Stones were both using such eastern instruments back in the Sixties ("Paint It Black", Sgt Pepper, etc), so Blancmange were hardly the first. There have been several others, and in fact, the British band Monsoon had a big hit in the UK in 1982 with "Ever So Lonely" which used sitars and tablas (and a much wider array of eastern instrumentation), and that came out six months before "Living On The Ceiling", so Blancmange weren't even the first users of such instruments in that particular era. I'm not trying to take anything away from this terrific song, but with or without names, there is little that is notable about saying "The distinctive "eastern sounding" chord progression in the tune is enhanced by the use of sitar, played by Dinseh, and tabla, played by Deepak". It is pure trivia, and while that kind of commentary might be suited to a review of the song, Wikipedia is not in the business of reviewing records or cluttering up its articles with trivia. 88.104.17.39 (talk) 18:25, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for your full and robust reply. Not sure you why didn't just put "removed - trivia" on you edit summary. Um, you've removed that para three times? I was agreeing with you about the names, by the way - so that issue has gone away? And thanks for the info on Monsoon's "Ever So Lonely". I must admit that, even though it was number 8, and checking with YouTube, I had certainly forgotten about it. But it is a very different type/genre of song? I am just as surprised that its article doesn't also mention the instrumentation - I think it should. Basically all I am suggesting is the addition of some facts - e.g. something like "the song features sitar and tablas" as a minimum. Meanwhile, am happy to look as well for a source that supports my hunch that the use of these instruments, on such a successful hit, was generally notable. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:08, 4 January 2013 (UTC) p.s. you seem like a seasoned and knowledgeable editor - why don't you have an account? or why have you chosen not to log in? Your first deletion was unexplained and I had assumed was idle vandalism.
- Some supporting links re notability: [1], [2], "However, it was the Indian influences of Pandit Dinesh on tablas and Deepak Khazauchi on sitar who had both given Living On The Ceiling its alluring flavour that came furthest to the fore." - [3], [4], [5], [6], etc etc. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:57, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for your full and robust reply. Not sure you why didn't just put "removed - trivia" on you edit summary. Um, you've removed that para three times? I was agreeing with you about the names, by the way - so that issue has gone away? And thanks for the info on Monsoon's "Ever So Lonely". I must admit that, even though it was number 8, and checking with YouTube, I had certainly forgotten about it. But it is a very different type/genre of song? I am just as surprised that its article doesn't also mention the instrumentation - I think it should. Basically all I am suggesting is the addition of some facts - e.g. something like "the song features sitar and tablas" as a minimum. Meanwhile, am happy to look as well for a source that supports my hunch that the use of these instruments, on such a successful hit, was generally notable. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:08, 4 January 2013 (UTC) p.s. you seem like a seasoned and knowledgeable editor - why don't you have an account? or why have you chosen not to log in? Your first deletion was unexplained and I had assumed was idle vandalism.
- Firstly, 3RR has not been broken. Secondly, even though you now agree with this point, I'll reiterate that sessions musicians on records (particularly singles) do not need to be included unless they are of some notability - these two aren't and the album doesn't even list their full names. What would the point of listing two first names in an article be? It tells the reader absolutely nothing. Thirdly, your message above reads more like opinion rather than fact, and crosses the line into WP:OR. Unless Blancmange were the first band to use these instruments on a mainstream hit record in the western world, it adds nothing to the article. The Beatles and The Rolling Stones were both using such eastern instruments back in the Sixties ("Paint It Black", Sgt Pepper, etc), so Blancmange were hardly the first. There have been several others, and in fact, the British band Monsoon had a big hit in the UK in 1982 with "Ever So Lonely" which used sitars and tablas (and a much wider array of eastern instrumentation), and that came out six months before "Living On The Ceiling", so Blancmange weren't even the first users of such instruments in that particular era. I'm not trying to take anything away from this terrific song, but with or without names, there is little that is notable about saying "The distinctive "eastern sounding" chord progression in the tune is enhanced by the use of sitar, played by Dinseh, and tabla, played by Deepak". It is pure trivia, and while that kind of commentary might be suited to a review of the song, Wikipedia is not in the business of reviewing records or cluttering up its articles with trivia. 88.104.17.39 (talk) 18:25, 4 January 2013 (UTC)