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es:Navarra says that Ultrapuertos was never ruled by a merino. Hence it is not a Merindad:
- Históricamente el Reino de Navarra estuvo integrado también (aunque no fue constituida como merindad ni estuvo gobernada por un merino, a veces se le denomina incorrectamente como "sexta merindad") por la Tierra de Ultrapuertos o Baja Navarra, cuya cabeza era la población de San Juan Pie de Puerto (Saint Jean Pied de Port en francés; Donibane Garazi en vascuence).
--Error 18:11, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Lower Navarre never was a french province; it was a kingdom until the french revolution of 1789, and part of the french departement ot Lower Pyrennes after that.J.A.184.108.40.206 17:29, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I am not going to start a reversion war. But there needs to be some distinction in the legend of the map between the Basque Country (autonomous community) and the area that SOME Basque nationalists claim as their historical territory.
Right now, to refer to part of France and another Spanish community as part of the Basque community is pure irredentism. I think hinting at the duality between both conceptions of the Basque country by saying "the Basque Country claimed by Basque nationalists" is a suitable compromise between these two points of view.
If a simple reversion is made trying to conflate the nationalist conception of the Basque Country with the legal reality of the Basque country, I think this indicates that the article should be flagged and its neutrality questioned.
- There has been a very loooong discussion at Basque Country (greater region) on this topic (when the point was raised about the old page name which was (historical territory). The upshot was that the concept of the "7 provinces" is used by nationalists, but predates nationalism and is also a traditional concept of a region connected by the Basque language, either current or historical so referring to the 7 as a purely nationalist concept was inappropriate. There is plenty of pre 19th century evidence of the term (H)euscal Herria, not least of all Joanes Leizarraga's (who was from Lower Navarre incidentally) 1571 bible which uses the term to refer to the BC in this sense. Akerbeltz (talk) 08:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
- I still think that the revised map legend is still very heavily influenced with non-neutral nationalist rhetoric (no mention of France for example, even though Lower Navarre is a historical territory associated with the French state). However, I think that at least now the description is more accurate as it more clearly delineates the various definitions of the term "Basque Country" mentioned in the discussion aluded to by the above wiki member.
- In short, fine by me.
You're right, it makes no reference (except for the French flag) to the relationship to France. The whole page needs a rewrite or at least updating but in the meantime I'll see if I can find a map at the commons that places it within the department P-Atl and add that to the box. Akerbeltz (talk) 22:12, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
I need help with
I know this is wikipedia in English, but the article in wikipedia in Spanish have lost their heads and not put not even the basic tab. I ask for help to see if anyone can contact them to see reason. There is an awful dictadura in Spain including wikipedia in Spanish. We are already desperate because you can not write anything because everything cleared. I am forced to ask for help from wikipedia in English to be the strongest . oh, and they have also blocked the discussion area ; is incredible.--220.127.116.11 (talk) 18:23, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
I'll admit, I'm confused. I'm under the belief that Lower Navarre is in present day France and Upper Navarre is in Spain. If that's right, then isn't Lower Navarre north of Upper Navarre? Shouldn't the names be vice-versa? Please someone, unconfuse me! I am a descendant of Navarre and this is something I should understand but don't. Also, anyone know of any good historically accurate books on Navarre? Solri89 (talk) 21:50, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
- Hi Solri89, WP is not a FORUM, but I can shed some light on that. Lower Navarre shows a lower altitude, while Upper Navarre, on the Spanish side, is higher in altitude. The names are historical, of course, starting in the 16th or early 17th century. Regards Iñaki LL (talk) 22:10, 29 August 2017 (UTC)