Needs a disambiguation page!
Removed Pre-Christian from opening paragraph
It is well settled that there are no extent European pre-Christian pagan religions still practiced. At best they are attempted reconstructions of pre-Christian pagan religions. To call the pre-Christian without qualification implies they have been continuously practiced since pre-Christian times. I know many fluff-bunnys love this myth and still perpetuate it, but that doesn't make it true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 17:29, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm glad to see someone went through here and cleaned up a lot of the "weasel words". Good job! I have, however, re-inserted the term "Neopagan" over "Pagan". Neopagan vs. Pagan is a debate that was hashed out some time ago over on the Neopagan entry itself, and it is standard terminology in wikiproject Neopaganism. Please give the wikiproject a read-through and decide if you want to help us clean up the Pagan pages. We would love the help!
Dates of the Solstices and Equinoxes
[|The US Naval Obseravtory publishes "the" national standard data for the dates and times of the solstices and equinoxes. The times given there are in UT (Universal Time -similar to GMT) so they read 5 hours ahead of what clocks are reading in the US's Eastern Standard Time or 4 hours during Eastern Daylight Saving Time. Neopagan publications have been mis-stating the dates of the solstices and equinoxes for generations now, probably just by copying from each other and being befuddled by the seemingly ambiguous dates they find when referencing the astronomical data. The following values represent the actual/correct dates based on USA time (EST/EDT).
MARCH EQUINOX: usually March 20th; occasionally the 21st; NEVER the 24th or 25th...
JUNE SOLSTICE: usually June 21st; occasionally the 20th...
SEPTEMBER EQUINOX: usually Sept. 23rd; occasionally the 22nd; NEVER (never) the 20th, 21st 24th, 25th...
DECEMBER SOLSTICE: usually Dec. 21st; occasionally the 22nd
The Earth NEVER (ever) reaches Autumnal Equinox on September 21st. In the US's Eastern Daylight Time zone the Autumnal Equinox usually occurs on September 23rd and occasionally on September 22nd. It is true that -most- Neopagan popular liturature gets this fact wrong and does so with amazing consistency. The standard reference for the time and date of these events (equinoxes and Solstices) is the United States Naval Obsetvatory (USNO)at http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/EarthSeasons.html
earrach 9 Aug. 2006
Gee, that September 21 fault wouldn't be a result of the "ancient" Neopagan practice of lazy research, would it? I've been watching the pages related to this one for a while. Whenever someone disses wikipedia, I proudly point to the Neopagan pages and related articles as proof that the wiki can often right what is published as wrong. Then I point out that Margaret Murray was a Britannica contributor. Nice catch, Earrach!
It is odd that there is so much conflict about the name Mabon being used for the Autumnal Equinox.. i was reading some of the comments added onto the article- er.. definition of Mabon... Mabon is not just a story of the Bringer of Light, it is a lesson on how even in the darkness of the coming winter, there is a seed of light waiting underground waiting to be freed, and how we should not fear the growing cold. It is about the transition between light and dark, where the values of wisdom and experience are represented by animals typically attributed to this season- the stag, the salmon, the owl,eagle.It is a story thaat imparts the necessity to call upon our elders for thier wisdom and experiences. The powers of reincarnation are entrusted to the Underword deities. The Story of Mabon is not random- it is relevant. Even though i grew up with this season being called the Harvest Moon..Blood Moon or Autumnal Equnox, i see no reason to dismiss or belittle the people who celebrate it as Mabon- the pagan community should encourage the efforts made to revitalize and recapture old stories before they are lost. This season marks the beginning of looking within ourselves for that bright seed of hope to carry us through the winter months, to sit around the fire and absorb the knowledge of our elders. Blessed be any who can find a way to bring more people to the fire... (188.8.131.52)
Its not odd at all. Claims have been made that the neoPagan 8-fold wheel is of ancient origin, and that the names are those used a thousand years ago. They are not. The article correctly points that out. The usage is also largely confined to one country as well - the article correctly points that out as well. It doesn't invalidate anyones religious experience from celebrating that particular festival as 184.108.40.206 points out it is celebrated by several names. --Nantonos 05:53, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
I made two changes to this article: the statement that Aidan Kelly (why isn't there a wikipedia entry on him, anyway?) invented the term in the 70s now says it may have been invented by him. I'm perfectly willing to see it changed back, but not without some citation.
I also added mention that the name may relate to Mabon ap Modron, as I have heard, but that the connection is unclear. Again, any citation would be welcomed.
Septegram 21:49, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm a little uncertain about the use of "American". Many people in New Zealand and Australia celebrate this festival under this name. It may have originated in America, but isn't American in the sense of, say, Thanksgiving is. 220.127.116.11 04:04, 12 March 2007 (UTC)