|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Machine elf redirect.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
|This page was nominated for deletion on 9 February 2014 (UTC). The result of the discussion was merge to dimethyltryptamine.|
|WikiProject Psychoactive and Recreational Drugs||(Rated Redirect-class)|
|WikiProject Skepticism||(Rated NA-class)|
|This is the talk page of an article that has been merged and now redirects to the page:
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Oh come on
- I have met the machine elves myself, the description by McKeena is pretty accurate for the generic experience. This experience is worth its own article in wikipedia because it highlights that the shamanic stories about weird encounters with spirits are not just stories, but literal descriptions of what they actually encountered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 16:13, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
May I second the Oh, Come On motion. As subject for a WP entry all its own, "machine elves" is beyond absurd. The (ahem) infaux and content of this entry boils down to exploitation of WP, and its readers. The 'excited' broadcast the glorious name of Terence McKenna, his brand, in the form of a 'machine elf' entry - is a stealth informercial, posing as encyclopedia info. Between the lines, the content of this entry is merely wow - his purported 'genius,' and how important his word as 'contributions' to posterity. Subcultural fallout of his charismatic cult-like appeal, his talent, for spell-binding dupes. His brand of hypnotic bs, was of by and for soliciting and recruiting whoever - to be awestruck by his 'ideas' and 'philosophy' and 'theorizing.' Not to sound like an unbeliever, but the entry desperately maneuvers to impart some kind of greater meaning or significance, worthy of 'serious consideration' ... to his 'machine elf' talk gimmick. I wonder if WP policy allows for a piece of (decorum prohibits) like this to just be deleted, scrapped, junked. It reads as a blatant piece of post-Terence propaganda, in his name, amen: Right from Sentence One, two factually false and misleading attributions - "ethnobotanist ... and philosopher Terence McKenna." This colorful rascal was neither a philosopher, nor - for crying out loud (please!) - an ethnobotanist. But the claims aren't random. They're among the more common, fraudulent laurels of fame and worth his followers demand he is owed, as tribute: To an WP admin-editors reasonably concerned/interested - may I refer to WP's entry for Terence McKenna. The accolades of "philosopher" and "ethnobotanist" have, per custom of his PR handlers, have long figured therein - and equally long, been questioned, contested, to no avail. Until very recently - they are now rightly and properly gone, edited out. The entry's Talk Page reflects the firestorm of fury provoked in his 'interest group' - parties who concern themselves with promoting his name, his claim to fame, on these talking points. But in this execrable 'machine elves' entry, the "message from the Terence McKenna sponsorship" continues, using the WP broadcast tower. If this entry can't be just junked - the ideal improvement to my mind - I'd give merging it as moved by an editor (above), a resounding second: Either way, about that first sentence of this eyeball-rolling entry - per WP standards, purposes, and procedures - these resume padding "Philosopher" and "Ethnobotanist" claims - really ought to be removed. To the dustbin of history. Which I'm sure would welcome them warmly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akersbp (talk • contribs) 18:03, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
- Terrence McKeena is not the only one who have witnessed the machine elves. Your argument appears to mostly be based on your disgust of him, which is irrelevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 10:32, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
You've parroted the doctrine well as any - I'm sure its easier than facing the truth. Your retort sums up as "La La La."' But you've recited the Party Line accurately - with copy and paste fidelity. That exemplifies exactly what I noted - the desperate attempt of TM followers to somehow imbue his 'elves" with some worth or greater significance. You've followed form faithfully too - pseudo-authoritative declaration, as if saying something can make it true. Devoid of info, nothing to put content or merit to your words. All insistent, while coyly resistant. Adamant - and dismally empty - assertion imitates something to say, but is unwilling, unready, and unable to muster anything but noise, molded to mimic signal. That's what you're stuck with, by your own choice. A bankrupt treasury - that's the best TMism has to offer. So - for want of anything else to speak from or go on, you'll have to just keep parroting that blabberwocky. In service to TM praise and worship, testimonials are au courant. And the line has to be cast, the story really does have to be repeated over and over, mindlessly, robotically. That's how disinfo works. As Hitler put it, MEIN KAMPF: 'the most brilliant method of propaganda must confine itself to a few key claims ... and repeat them over and over.' Especially at any close encounter with true, factual info amenable to independent verification - by anyone with the guts, genuine interest, and integrity of purpose to check facts, separate wheat from chaff. Otherwise, to heck with it - fall in line with the charismatic spell TM cast so capably upon his susceptible marks. Drawn like moths to his flame, captured by the radiant glow of the brainwash. I find you offer a nice case-in-point, acted out in real time here, to illustrate the 'situation' of this entry, and what it represents... a subversive movement, flying below the radar and using WP as a broadcast tower for its message: Thought-programming 101, the "Terence McKenna Thing." Akersbp (talk) 17:04, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
While I applaud your felicity, your intransigent barrage of fringe logic -and subsequent overlook- against 22.214.171.124's reasonable point of procedure has purported nothing more than your overwhelming tendency to miss the point. Furthermore, your apparent "righteous fury" against McKenna boils down to nothing more than a cheap tactic for you to exploit in a subversive attack on the free flow of thought and ideas. The only type of "subliminal brainwashing" occurring here are your attempts at labeling anyone who attempts to participate in an open discussion as an agent of Terrence McKenna; which are lunatic as your attempts at hiding your motive behind periphrastic and outrageous tirades claiming conspiracy against the whole of WP. If you don't agree with McKenna, that's fine, but don't use it as a pillar to hide behind so you can exonerate logic and accuse other users of claims they didn't make in a circumlocutory(no to mention obnoxious) tongue-in-cheek fashion. Defending the world from intellectual misguidance may be a noble endeavor, but do remember: No one likes a Condescendent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BeautifulVoid (talk • contribs) 19:52, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
At the bottom of the section "Description by McKenna" is an uncited paragraph hypothesizing that the dwarves of Norse mythology may share a common origin with machine elves in human consciousness. The basis for this comparison is quite frankly way beyond loose. They both make things that are unique? McKenna never made such a comparison as far as I recall, and given that it's uncited, I think it's a pretty obvious case of Original Research, or worse, shallow conjecture. I move for its deletion. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 06:35, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Just hard to follow
Regardless of the veracity of the claims, as a layperson, it's hard to understand the concepts this article is actually describing. Please elaborate on this in a concise manner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 16:11, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
May I respectfully suggest - there's nothing wrong with your cognitive faculties or capacity for comprehension, 184.108.40.206. Close, careful exam of the 'concepts' confirms (as you note): they're hard to understand, alright. With good reason I find, like a prize hidden in the Cracker Jack box - clarity of perception. Tested as 'concepts' they prove to have no internal consistency, no substance. Seems they're imitation, counterfeits not the real thing; extravagant sound and fury. Their 'logic' boils down to ulterior subtlety of intent: hypnotic-like suggestion: "Be amazed, be very amazed. Go wow, and get enthused along with the Others" as McKenna called anyone enraptured by his lyrical Rorschach word blots. The 'concepts' are merely mind-lulling lures for anybody wanting to get involved with a scene McKenna staged. Siren songs in essence, sweetly inviting 'Others' to projectively interpret them. Then, we get to feel brilliant along with Terence. Whatever deep meaning suits the moment and listener is welcome. Simply stick in our thumb, pull out some plum of 'profound meaning' - then (reward) get to tell ourselves, oh what a smart boy am I ("Nobody is smarter than you" as McKenna cooed to his gulls). But if anyone prefers critical inquiry to being gullible, rather question than exalt such 'concepts' (not self-delude they 'get them') - the booby prize is, let them be baffled. Whoever doesn't want to play along can eat that cake, feel stupid like they don't 'get it.' But as turns out, surprise - there's nothing to 'get.' These are devices not concepts, subliminally directing whoever away from critical question or pause. Objective #1 is for moths to be drawn to the flame. But if you don't want to be vapidly awestruck - and thus self-impressed that you 'understand' what Terence was saying - the 'meaning' shifts to how hard for 'inferior' (i.e., non-gullible) minds to grasp such 'genius.' I hope this is concise. The 'concepts' are operational, offering a choice. To either (1) go "WOW" and join the choir; (2) go "huh?" and scratch our head till its raw and bloody; or (3) shrug shoulders at the seeming liveliness of nonsense and tune out, scram - stop bothering him and his flock; not realizing the manipulation. As if directed by a Wizard of Oz: "pay no further attention to that man behind his jabberwocky curtain." Their last-ditch function is to repulse and repel 'wrong' attention, like Skeptic Whispering: "no droids of interest here for You, Mr. Critical Inquiring Mind, go away." It seems intelligent notice posed a threat to McKenna; he didn't mean for anyone to see through his convert-recruit campaign, or perceive the web he was weaving as such. That anyone might do so was apparently a troubling prospect for his mission objectives. In essence, his 'concepts are inherently tactical not conceptual. Hence their range of effects, and manifest emptiness of coherent meaning, absence of cohesive content. He had a big vocab, but his IQ mainly seems to have been of cunning not intellect. Bottom line, machine elfing, and his discourse as a whole - was a countercultural exercise in subversion of reason. He tipped his hand here and there: "we have loosed demons, and reason has grown to feeble to save us!" (TRUE HALLU). His 'concepts' were psychodrama, oppositional defiance of rationality by endless masquerade variations on Liar's Paradox. They're 'anti-conceptual' not just non-; brain-breaker covert cues: 'bang head here.' Apparently as slyly intended by the charismatic Trip Master; and applauded as if by trained seals (who 'get it'), eager to help spread the word by whatever means - e.g., WP a useful broadcast tower, this instance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akersbp (talk • contribs) 13:18, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Merge with dimethyltryptamine
So I was trying to merge this article with the dimethyltryptamine article, but a bot stopped me, claiming I was vandalizing. Please halp obiwan-wikipedian, you are my only hope. KaosMuppet (talk) 17:40, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
- It saw that you were redirecting a page to itself. I think you had clicked from the page Machine Elf to dimethyltryptamine and then went to the Machine Elf section you created there, but because you had come there from a redirect, the notation of the page was the page you came from .
- On another note, I think I am going to move that content down to the "popular culture" section. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:02, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
I see this page was deleted to a redirect. I have had to re-add the better references and sources to the article N,N-Dimethyltryptamine, as it was lost at somepoint. The categories were also removed.
It should be noted that although MacKenna "popularised" and invented the term the experience is common to the class of chemicals, and not exclusively a MacKenna topic, though the term 'Machine Elf" provides a useful catch all term.220.127.116.11 (talk) 12:38, 18 November 2014 (UTC)