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- 1 Pyrard de Laval
- 2 D[h]ivehi?
- 3 Redirected.
- 4 Talk:Maldives
- 5 Link
- 6 Mergers
- 7 Latin transliteration of the Maldivian language
- 8 Maldives Scouting
- 9 Southernmost IE language?
- 10 ??
- 11 Divehi is the correct spelling
- 12 Move Divehi language and Mahl language to this pagge
- 13 Move the page to the title Maldivian language
- 14 Move the page to the title Divehi language or Dhivehi Language
- 15 Minor error in Phonology --> Intonation
- 16 Letter size and spacing in typography
- 17 Requested move
- 18 Dhivehi-bas
- 19 Vocabulary of the Maldivian Language, Compiled by Lieut. W. Christopher, I. N. Communicated to the Bombay Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society (January 1, 1841)
- 20 misconstructed example
- 21 Common Phrases - Goodbye
Pyrard de Laval
The translation of what Pyrard said in the 17th Century: "This Kingdom is called in their language Male'-rague', 'Kingdom of Male', and other peoples of India call 'Male'-Divar', and people 'Diues' (Dhivehi).... The main island, as I have said, is called Male' which gives the name to the rest of the others: because the word means Diues (Dhivehi) when number of small islands gathered. Leone (talk) 15:37, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
- In my opinion the correct version should be also without this h, i.e. "Divehi". I checked ISO 639-1 and there is also dv = Divehi.
- But in web, many places are using with h. Would be nice to hear opinion from somebody familiar with language names --TarmoK 11:06, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
moved from my user page --TarmoK 12:16, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
Regarding your concern, about how D[h]ivehi is spelled, in talk page. In Maldives it's written with 'h'. However ISO 639-1 has it spelled like Divehi. The likely reason for this could be because, with the letters divehi produce the exact Thaana unicode equivalent. If you include a H the output is different. Below are two differnet outputs.
|↓ Incorrect pronounciation|
|divehi||ދިވެހި||← Correct local form|
|dhivehi||ދހިވެހި||← Incorrect local form|
|↑ correct pronounciation|
I think for this reason its written without h in ISO specification. However its really pronouced with the letter h. --Oblivious
- Complementing to the comment by Oblivious I know that in some languages adding an "h" makes the sound more puffy! Example, writing Nepalese with English alphabet, the sound of the letter D would be as it whould normally be (eg, Dog). However, if the letter h is inserted after D, the sound would be D but with a puff, much similar to "D-hh". My point here is that the same letter is pronounced quite different in different languages. Especially languages with its own script. The "D[h]" in "D[h]ivehi" is pronounced more like the "th" in "The" --Rxs
- "the same letter is pronounced quite different in different languages." Absolutely, Romanization =/= IPA, and that's what's going on here. The 'h' is used in the official Dhivehi Romanization scheme to indicate that 'dh' and 'th' are dental, not retroflex. (That same scheme happens to use 'lh' for a retroflex lateral.) There's some discussion in chapter 3 of Amalia Gnanadesikan's published grammar (https://www.degruyter.com/view/product/185743). (And fwiw, this Romanization is much more consistent than the spelling systems of some languages. English, I'm looking at you!) Mcswell (talk) 16:11, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
- That would be logical, me thinks.--rxs 05:32, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I disagree that in the Maldivian language the word 'Divehi' is really pronouced with the letter h. In fact it is not. It has a plain dental unaspirated 'd'. When writing in the Urdu language, for example, the aspirated letters include a special 'h' following them, but the fact is that Divehi has lost the aspirated sounds.
For the correct use of letters with 'h's added in the languages of South Asia (like for example the word "Buddha", which has an aspirated 'd' sound), please check the Standard Indic table in Dhivehi Writing Systems. It is sad to say this, but the present official transcription of the Maldivian language doesn't make Maldivians look good. Especially since the "-dives" of "Maldives" has the same origin as the "Dive-" in "Divehi". What would you think if you would have to write "England" for the country and "Enghlish" for the language? The present transcription is definitely inconsistent and makes its users look somewhat crass. It is time that Maldivians stop getting obsessed with politics and religion and begin to get their act straight with their culture.Mohonu 17:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
If you ask a Maldivian to write "but" he will write "bat", that is Maldivian Latin way. But in English wiki we have to use the ISO standard. So it is not "Dhivehi" but correct way is "Divehi". Deviathan (talk) 10:42, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Now everything has updated including ISO and ethnologue. See: http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=div and http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=div The first spelling used in both places is Dhivehi with an "H". This means their first priority too is that. And according to Wikipedia guidelines the common and official usage of the subject has to be preferred in case such a clash occurs. For sure most people use "Dhivehi" and for sure the official spelling too is Dhivehi in the Republic of Maldives as well as most of the official organizations. Leone (talk) 19:59, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
- Merging of Moloki bas: Definitely yes. The language of Fua Mulaku is a dialect of Dhivehi. It is one of the dialects most divergent from Standard Dhivehi (in that it is more archaic), but still one of its dialects.
- Merging of Dhivehi Writing Systems: No. In my opinion, there should be a separate article for that, with a link as early in the Dhivehi article as possible, as for example with Sinhala and Sinhala alphabet.
Cheers, Krankman 21:16, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Latin transliteration of the Maldivian language
To user Deviathan. Please explain rationale for removing referenced paragraphs referring to Latin transliteration in Dhivehi language. The temporary adoption of Latin script during the 1970's ignoring previous lingustic research made by HCP Bell and Wilhelm Geiger was an important event in the history of the Maldivian language. Erasing referenced text without justification looks like vandalism to me.126.96.36.199 12:21, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Southernmost IE language?
I don't know on what basis the assertion is made that Dhivehi is the southernmost IE language...I think Afrikaans at least is a strong contender for southernmost... Tomertalk 19:32, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
I probably agree with you, but this is the southernmost one that developed naturally: Afrikaans is a derivative of Dutch. This makes it a West Germanic language like English and German, so it's really more of a European language spoken in Africa. The Person Who Is Strange 05:30, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Afrikaans is as natural as Maldivian. It's not a constructed language, nor is it a pidgin or creole, which are both kinds of natural language anyway. The only way I can see justifying the exclusion of Afrikaans would be to distinguish between ancient and modern development of the language, or indigenous versus colonial. --Thnidu (talk) 03:51, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Divehi is the correct spelling
In ISO Standard 'd' is used for unaspirated 'd' or 'daalu' in Divehi language. In Divehi there are no aspirated sounds. This confusion started when in 1970s Maldivian goverment adopted a system of transliteration called latin, in which 'dh' is used for unaspirated 'd' and 'd' is used for retroflex 'D' or 'Daviyani' in Divehi. In ISO standard 'Daviyani' will be written with 'd' a dot below. So the correct spelling is Divehi according to international standards. Manikfan (talk) 11:39, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia guidelines we have to respect the common and official usage of the subject in case such spelling clashes occur. Brother Manikfan, you may already know this if you see the Wikipedia naming conventions. Coming to the commonly used term, it is undeniably Dhivehi with an 'h'. Moreover, from the official documents also we see with an 'h'. So that is why we have to use the spelling with an 'h' in Wikipedia.
Coming to the ISO part, on the documentation for ISO identifier for Dhivehi language they have three names for the language. (i.e. Dhivehi, Divehi and Maldivian) The first spelling used is "Dhivehi" with an "H". See from this link: http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=div So this means their first priority too is the spelling with an "H" as it is the official as well as the common usage of the subject. Leone (talk) 19:29, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
Move Divehi language and Mahl language to this pagge
Mahl spoken in Maliku (Minicoy), India is not different from the standard Divehi. The Addu, Moloki and Huvadu dialects of Divehi are more different from standard Divehi than Mahl. so why not we change the name like this Divehi (Mahl) language. Manikfan (talk) 11:49, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
- I moved it back and merged the page history, which had been stranded. kwami (talk) 09:20, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
- Mahl dialect is different from the standard Dhivehi. The difference is that there are classical words as well as influences from Malayalam. While we speak to Minicoyans even we can experience the clear differences. I myself have experienced a state that on the first hand what they say could not be understood. It took some time to adjust and understand the speech. It was in a Malayali 'raagu'. And the similarities are much closer to northern Maldives speech than to standard Dhivehi. It has to be understood and respected that Mahl is considered as a dialect of Dhivehi language by researchers. See these links:
- http://www.maldives-ethnography.com/linguistic.html (Many more links available)
It is a serious mistake that for a particular period the article has been named as so. It's truly a serious and completely unacceptable matter to have used the word Mahl in brackets, synonymous with Dhivehi. For instance imagine, how about the cases of Dhivehi (Huvadhu), Dhivehi (Mulaku), Dhivehi (Addu), etc... For sure there are more speakers of these dialects individually compared to Mahl. There is no language with the name being considered synonymous with a dialect. So please don't use Mahl synonymous with Dhivehi. It is a dialect only and that state can't be changed no matter that the above mentioned change of name by Brother Manikfan has led to this mistake being spread to some mirror sites. Leone (talk) 19:17, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
Move the page to the title Maldivian language
Move the page to the title Divehi language or Dhivehi Language
Regarding the above argument, Maldivian doesn't only refer to the language, it is the word for the people of the Maldives any thing which is connected to the Maldives, like Maldivian food, because of these reasons the word Maldivian will show more search results than Divehi or Dhivehi. The name of the language is officially accepted as Dhivehi not Maldivian, which is merely just a geographic term. Official name of the language academy is also "Academy of the Dhivehi Language".
In case of Malaysian language also the official name is Bahasa Malaysia and it is the common usage among Malaysians when they write English. The same way Bahasa Melayu is used more commonly than "Malay" in Malaysia and Malay speaking countries. However, according to Wikipedia naming conventions the common name of the subject in the English speaking world or in reliable sources of English language usage has to be preferred. That's why Malaysian or Malay is used in cases of the former and Maldivian has to be used for Dhivehi. So no matter the internal sources use the native name "Dhivehi" commonly, in the English speaking world and reliable sources such as encyclopedias, dictionaries, journals, etc... it is very different. Please refer to oxford dictionary and many other sources given on top. When searched through the reliable sources of English language usage "Maldivian" turns out to be the common name of the subject. While a commonly used English name of the subject exists that is the one which has to be preferred according to the guidelines. It is very clear from the reliable sources given on top that Maldivian is not only just a geographic term. It has the same use as that of the words Spanish, Dutch, Russian, etc... Leone (talk) 10:00, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Clearly should be "Maldivian". Just ask any monolingual English speaker to read "Divehi" out loud, and see what nonsense you get! "Maldivian" is the normal English name, and the only one most people will know, or at least be able to recognize. — kwami (talk) 10:29, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Concerning the argument that "Maldivian doesn't only refer to the language, it is the word for the people of the Maldives any thing which is connected to the Maldives, like Maldivian food", you could say the same for English, French, Japanese, Russian, or almost any other glottonym. That's why the name of the article is Maldivian language, like probably every other language article. --Thnidu (talk) 04:03, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Minor error in Phonology --> Intonation
"Take the word ‘possible’ in English. The two ‘ss’ sounds in it are pronounced in much the same way as the single ‘s’ in a word like ‘positive’."
"Positive" is pronounced (by a native speaker) with a voiced "s", as if spelled "pozitive", whereas the letters "ss" in "possible" are unvoiced. Another example needs to be created.
Best regards, Nikevich 09:08, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Letter size and spacing in typography
The few examples of D[h]ivehi that I have seen (such as in the printed Unicode 3.0 manual, and this article) use very small glyphs. As well, inter-letter spacing looks quite excessive. Can Wikipedia compensate for this? (I'm using Mint Linux 11, a derivative of Ubuntu, which, very likely, provides default fonts for Mint. I'm also using the Chrome browser.) Perhaps Arabic shaping and joining is needed; the examples look strange, but that might simply be my unfamiliarity with the language.
Best regards, Nikevich 09:18, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
- Possibly an effect of leaving room for super- & sub-scripts. You get a similar effect w Tibetan. — kwami (talk) 09:35, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes. Divehi means an islander. Maldivian also means etymologically the same since "-dives" of "Maldives" and the word Divehi have the same root, Sanskrit "dvīpa" which means "island". Thus calling "Dhivehi language" and "Maldivian language" is the same on etymological grounds. But "Maldivian" should be used in English Wikipedia since it is the name in English. Leone (talk) 12:37, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
To be honest, if you want to translate 'Islanders language' to Dhivehi, then a native speaker would translate that phrase to 'Rashumeehunge' bas'. For a native speaker the term Dhivehi = Maldivian. and the term 'Island' = rah. --Jinaakko (talk) 17:52, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
Vocabulary of the Maldivian Language, Compiled by Lieut. W. Christopher, I. N. Communicated to the Bombay Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society (January 1, 1841)
Vocabulary of the Maldivian Language, Compiled by Lieut. W. Christopher, I. N. Communicated to the Bombay Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society (January 1, 1841)
The subsection on loan words referring to actions has the following set of examples:
- Book (buk) kuranee = booking
- Develop (divelop) kuranee = developing
- tharaqqee (develop) kuranee = developing
All the other loanword examples, for all parts of speech, use loans from English, presumably to be clear to the readers of English Wikipedia. The third line is obviously not a case of an English word tharaqqee being borrowed into Maldivian as "develop". I don't know what the person who added it meant by it, but maybe some other Wikipedian will, so I'm going to comment it out instead of deleting it. Thnidu (talk) 04:21, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Common Phrases - Goodbye
Why is goodbye included in the common phrases section despite the very section before it specifically states that islanders don't use hello and goodbye. As I do not speak the language I cnnot contribute to this, but something should be changed!? Alexandre8 (talk) 15:17, 22 June 2017 (UTC)