Talk:Manal al-Sharif

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title: is the topic al-Sharif or the driving campaign?[edit]

The usual Wikipedia debate about whether al-Sharif is notable for anything more than her driving rights campaign is bound to be raised. My guess is that the driving rights campaign would be more likely to be consensually accepted as notable than al-Sharif herself, although this does depend on the reactions of the KSA authorities. If they are repressive enough, then chances are a huge amount of world attention will focus on al-Sharif, making her notability come up above the wikipedia-notability threshold.

Is anyone in favour of a rename to something like 2011 Saudi Arabian women driving campaign or Teach me how to drive so I can protect myself (this second suggestion is the name in the Associated Press article)? Boud (talk) 21:11, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Given that al-Sharif got dubbed a prisoner of conscience, I think she's become a prominent face of this movement and worthy of an article in her own right. Perhaps if similar arrests continue to transpire in the near future, we can consider merging if we have a logical name for the movement to combine them. Khazar (talk) 18:28, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
This does seem to have become very personalised around al-Sharif - at the choice of the KSA authorities - and internationalised. A possible second arrest or non-arrest became five days' arrest which became 10 days' arrest (in the article: "detention" to be careful in terms of international terminology; many countries have "arrest" being a serious thing following conviction while pre-trial "detention" is "not arrest".) If the authorities really have lost control and more and more women just drive anyway and the mainstream media consider that notable, chances are that that would justify a separate article with some overlap/crosslinks. We'll see... Boud (talk) 20:44, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Given Mona Eltahawy's much talked about article for Foreign Policy, "Why Do They Hate Us?", in which she calls Sharif "a one woman revolutionary force who pushes against an ocean of misogyny," one cannot say Manal is known only for her driving stunt. She continues to fight for women's rights in her country in all areas; she is a multi-issue feminist, fighting for anything from the right to vote to the right to travel without a male escort. To quote from the article: "The Arab uprisings may have been sparked by an Arab man -- Mohamed Bouazizi, the Tunisian street vendor who set himself on fire in desperation -- but they will be finished by Arab women. Amina Filali -- the 16-year-old Moroccan girl who drank poison after she was forced to marry, and beaten by, her rapist -- is our Bouazizi. Salwa el-Husseini, the first Egyptian woman to speak out against the "virginity tests"; Samira Ibrahim, the first one to sue; and Rasha Abdel Rahman, who testified alongside her -- they are our Bouazizis. We must not wait for them to die to become so. Manal al-Sharif, who spent nine days in jail for breaking her country's ban on women driving, is Saudi Arabia's Bouazizi. She is a one-woman revolutionary force who pushes against an ocean of misogyny." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.167.238.86 (talk) 02:27, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

blanking vandalism log[edit]

Done by hand - this may not be a complete log. Most (probably all?) got reverted within about 1-5 minutes. All these users were warned. Some ignored the warnings and were blocked.

Boud (talk) 18:22, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

religion[edit]

We've had several recent changes to al-Sharif's unsourced religion. While several circumstantial pieces of information could be used to guess what (if any) religion al-Sharif identifies with, that doesn't count as reliable sourcing. And nobody has tried to explain on the talk page. I don't even see any point in putting "Islam" without a source. Al-Sharif is claimed to be Saudi Arabian by most sources, so statistically, chances are that she's a Muslim, but this is still a guess. Recent changes include:

I propose that we remove the religion entry totally until someone finds a source. We can then NPOV if there are various claims that al-Sharif is Sunni Muslim vs Shia Muslim vs Buddhist vs Catholic Christian vs whatever. Any objections? Boud (talk) 19:17, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Nope, I agree completely. Khazar2 (talk) 19:18, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Done. Boud (talk) 22:52, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

She is Muslim - the al-Sharif family is from Mecca and are considered descendants of the Prophet Mohammad. Whether she personally identifies as Muslim is another matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.167.238.86 (talk) 02:31, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

archiving citations[edit]

I've mass archived this article's citations for future reference below. -- Khazar2 (talk) 03:52, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Long list of archived citations
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

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Suggestions[edit]

Hi its nice to read about Manal's struggle for women's rights. Here i would like to suggest some of my observations which could help improve the article more.

Thanks! I hope you don't mind my interweaving my comments, but it seems like the easiest way to answer. I really appreciate your responses. -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:34, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Our of total 38 citations, 11 are in lead, means almost 1/3 of the article citations are in lead, Those citations shall be moved to related sections.
  • That statistic isn't quite right, since as you can see, several citations (including all of those) appear multiple times in the article. Since this is a complex and controversial subject, I think it's okay to leave those citations there per WP:LEAD. -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:34, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
  • The lead should specify about the location of campaign.
  • I think it's clear enough that it takes place in Saudi Arabia, but you're welcome to add more info if you like.-- Khazar2 (talk) 14:34, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
who helped start a women's right to drive campaign in 2011 can be written as in 2011 she helped start a women's right to drive campaign in Saudia Arabia.
  • I think I prefer the current phrasing for now. -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:34, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Need to avoid multiple wiki-linking of (Youtube, Twitter, bail....) etc.
  • Removed some using the duplicate links tool. Bail is linked in the lead and body once each, which is okay per WP:REPEATLINK. Thanks for pointing this out. -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:34, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Wajeha al-Huwaider shall be removed from the list of See Also as she is already wikilinked many times and discussed in the article.
  • From the sub-section of Background the main article about Women's rights in Saudi Arabia#Mobility shall be removed at is already wiki-linked in the above paragraph at Women's rights campaigns.
  • I think it makes sense to have the "main article" link, so I delinked the one above. -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:34, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Are there any other activity/campaigns if she support? or only she is associated with this two campaign. If she is associated with other activities it should be discussed.
  • Well, there's more in "post campaign", for example. Is that the kind of information you're looking for? -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:34, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Some more information is required for 2011 women prisoners campaign, if she was supported by any other organization, results of this campaign. etc....
  • I don't have sources for this, but if you can point me to the sources you're looking at for this, I'll be glad to work them in. -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:34, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Her family (Husband, son/daughters, Parents etc) information is required in main section. Best wishes for GA. Regards :)--Omer123hussain (talk) 13:35, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Thanks again! -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:34, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Manal al-Sharif/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: ChrisGualtieri (talk · contribs) 23:05, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

  • I'll be reviewing this one. Give me some time to review the material. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 23:05, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
Great, thanks. Just to give credit where credit's due, User:Boud was the main contributor to this one, but I'll be glad to do whatever's needed to take it to GA. -- Khazar2 (talk) 23:18, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Lede issues: References are not required in lede, but...

  • " A women's rights activist who had previously filmed herself driving, Wajeha al-Huwaider, filmed al-Sharif driving a car[6] as part of the campaign." - Why the ref not at the end of sentence?
  • "Al-Sharif was detained and released on 21 May[7] and rearrested the following day.[2]" - Again.

Background - You use "Background" as a heading twice. I do not think that is a good idea.

  • Agreed--  Done -- Khazar2 (talk) 23:49, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Women's rights campaigns issues:

  • "As of 2011, women in Saudi Arabia have limited freedom of movement and in practice are not allowed to drive motor vehicles." - Out of date.
  • "As of 21 May 2011, about 12,000 readers of the Facebook page had expressed their support" - If it is a snapshot and not the current figure, use "By 21 May 2011..."
  • "On 26 May, authorities said that al-Sharif would remain in detention until 5 June 2011, according to lawyer Waleed Aboul Khair.[11]" - Bad prose. Is he her lawyer or just a lawyer? "According to Waleed Aboul Khair..."
  • I think your dispute is with the Associated Press style guide on that one. But rather than make an assumption I'll delete the word. -- Khazar2 (talk) 23:49, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
  • "As of 31 May 2011, it is unknown whether or not the charges were dropped.[9]" Update.
  •  Done It appears she simply served those 10 days in jail on those charges and that was the end of it; I can't find any reference to further charges, so I'm removing this echo of the AFP reporter's confusion. -- Khazar2 (talk) 23:49, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

I will post the template later, but these are the only concerns I have right now. The lack of updates and dated statements are a bit confusing. The reference issue is not a big deal. Just work on these issues and I will pass it. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 23:21, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions; I've implemented all of them. Just let me know if you see anything else that needs work. Cheers, -- Khazar2 (talk) 23:49, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
GA review
(see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose):
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):
    b (citations to reliable sources):
    c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):
    b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Symbol support vote.svg · Symbol oppose vote.svg · Symbol wait.svg · Symbol neutral vote.svg


Congrats, it passes. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 01:31, 20 July 2013 (UTC)