Talk:Marie Fox

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Do only fathers count as parents?[edit]

This paragraph says she was born of a specific woman, then, in order to meet the "Did You Know but not bother to check any facts competition to the main page," it goes on to say her father is unknown and again her biological parentage is a mystery?

So, what is the deal, only fathers count as parents? Can we get a source on that? Or did a vandal add the name of her mother? -68.99.89.234 (talk) 21:34, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

No, that doesn't help. Please read what you wrote. The opening sentence gives her mother's name, and the closing sentence says her "biological parentage is unknown." Both cannot be true. Pick one! Please. -68.99.89.234 (talk) 21:39, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Her biological parentage is NOT a mystery if her mother is known. You don't say or cite anything that says the mother's name is fake, you just summarize that not knowing the father makes her parentage unknown. This is not correct.-68.99.89.234 (talk) 21:51, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

The identity of her mother is not known. Various women have been proposed, including her father's maid and a French noblewoman. In fact, it is now widely believed that the maid was the mother. That is why the Earl of Ilchester, a family relative, explicitly describes her parentage as a mystery and goes on to explain that all people who knew the truth about it died before Marie even learned about her adoption. Surtsicna (talk) 21:56, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
I think the issue is with the statement "Her mother's name was given as Victoire Magny of Soissons" in the Background section. It gives the impression that the identity of her mother *was* known (and it was Victoire Magny of Soissons). If there was some reason to doubt that actually was her mother (e.g. no person by that name existed, or due to convention at the time the listed mother's name wasn't her biological mother), some statement to that effect probably should be made. On the other hand, if Victoire Magny of Soissons was her mother, stating that "her parentage is a mystery" is misleading or incorrect, at least by modern standards (in the 1800s parentage might have equated to paternity, but no longer). In that case, statements should be updated to say something along the lines of "her father was unknown" or "unknown paternity", rather than "unknown parentage". -- 205.175.124.30 (talk) 23:09, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
Thank you. Yes, if by stating her mother's name you mean anything besides that is who her mother is, please just say that, don't leave it to the reader to mindread all this other stuff from you. "Her mother's name was given as Victoire Magny of Soissons, but the identity of her father was unspecified." If this means that this was what was given, but it is not believed to really be her mother's name, just explicitly state and cite that. -68.99.89.234 (talk) 23:55, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
The article does explicitly say that it was believed that her actual mother was her father's servant and that, at one point, even the Marquise de Montaigu was considered to have been her mother. Surtsicna (talk) 10:12, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
And do any of these sources deal with what her birth certificate or whatever says? Please write this on Wikipedia, not in your head, and clear up the conflict. If her birth certificate falsely lists a name, say that when the fake name is given. "Her mother's name is given ae on her birth certificate but author Johnson states that her father's servant, who is not the listed person/whose name was something else, is the mother." You explain nothing in the article. What source gives her mother's name and how? Is the servant's name known? What source says the name given is false? -166.137.210.16 (talk) 16:34, 24 February 2013 (UTC)