Talk:Maryam Mirzakhani

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Minor edit[edit]

I changed "She is an expert on" to "Her research interests include" (that's what http://www.claymath.org/fas/research_fellows/Mirzakhani/ says). She may be an expert on what her dissertation was about, but we'll need sources to say she's an expert on the other topics. --Ishi Gustaedr 00:07, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

What is her ethnicity? Persian, Kurdish, Azerbaijani, etc? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.20.63.194 (talk) 10:36, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


One author of the article had confused the Fields Medal award committee with the Fields Institute. The latter is a Canadian research institute in Ontario. It has nothing to do with the selection of the Fields Medal laureates. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.68.227.77 (talk) 18:35, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Persian women's movement[edit]

I removed the link to the Persian women's movement because it made it seem (to me at least) that she belonged to some organization for Persian women. If she has some documented involvement in promoting Persian women, then it probably should be put back (with a reference). If it's just there because she's a Iranian woman with a Wikipedia article, well there's probably a lot of other Wikipedia articles that would qualify to have it as well. --Ishi Gustaedr 22:17, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

where does she live rigth now? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.255.27.157 (talk) 01:08, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

Sources for early (teenage) work[edit]

I removed a reference on the "Recognized locally as a brilliant teenager" line because it was from a recent USA Today article that recognizes her later work as brilliant. We are looking for some sources that touch on her early years perhaps before "she found international recognition" from the Math Olympiads. --Ishi Gustaedr 19:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Peacock tag[edit]

With this edit, 81.208.106.77 (Talk) added the {{peacock}} tag without any indication of what part of the article is objectionable. I'll guess it is the "Recognized locally as a brilliant teenager" line (which you can see above we are looking for a source for). I've left a message here and on the user's talk page. If there is no clarification in the next few days, I'll remove the tag. --Ishi Gustaedr (talk) 18:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Lead[edit]

I reordered the lead to make the prize the first element of the 2nd paragraph, as its the most important element of her notability (so far). I also added what she won the award for, which was not in the lead. I then removed the "2nd middle easterner" part, because once you get beyond firsts, its detracts from the snappiness of the prose.Two kinds of pork (talk) 03:13, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Protection[edit]

The article should be (semi-)protected to stop the ongoing edit war. She is an Iranian "expat" in USA. If she belongs to irans azeri/azerbeijani ethnic group, this can be mentioned, if there are CREDIBLE sources. But there is no justification for misusing Mirzakhani and the award for (the promotion of) a nationalism or an irredentism. There a conventions on wikipedia and Nelson Mandela was of course primarily a South African politician and only secondarily of Xhosa ethnicity.--Severino (talk) 09:52, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

her father (Ahmad Mirzakhani)is from Shemiran and mother... Tehran,she is a Persian not a Azeri and about 'usazeris.org'... It is not a reputable site.Kasparjust (talk) 11:06, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Press release[edit]

Hello. I added the IMU press release to External links. This PDF file is in the public domain. If it was a source and I missed it, feel free to delete. Also I added a "notable citation" template above. The wording isn't exactly right but it's okay for lack of another one. You editors did such a great job that the IMU links Mirzakhani's name from their website to this article. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:07, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Iranian vs American mathematician[edit]

82.8.62.228 (talk) 18:47, 18 August 2014 (UTC) I do not understand why there is a dicussion on this point. The WikiPedia page of all Fields Medal winners mentions their nationality, why should this one not follow the same pattern? Whether you want to present yourself as a Russian or Dutch physicists is entirely your decision, but it is not up to you to choose for other people. Prof Mirzakhani is Iranian, not American: her birthplace and citizenship are both Iranian: this fact is documented in various sources, including media. The place where you live does not change your citizenship unless you request it to. Some Iranian-born scientists who work in the US have US passports and may be described as Iranian-American but it is not the case here, unless you present some source of evidence.

Moreover, as pointed out by YmBlanter, your claims are utterly incorrect: she did the first half of her studies in Iran, she won her Olympiad medal as part of the Iranian national team then studied at Sharif University in Iran for her BSc.


The lede currently says "Iranian mathematician", and my attempt to change this was reverted within ten minutes. As a matter of fact, the nationality should not play any role here. She did not work a singe day in Iran, therefore she could not be an Iranian mathematician (despite the fact that she is Iranian, and of Iranian origin). The fact that she works in the US makes her an American mathematician, and her citizenship is absolutely irrelevant here. Yes, she is an American mathematician of Iranian origin - but WP:LEDE does not recommend to state the origin in the lede, therefore for the lede she must be an American mathematician. (Same way as I am a Dutch physicist because I am employed by a Dutch university, despite the fact that I still have Russian passport). Previously, the lede said Iranian-American mathematician, but even this was reverted.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:02, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

@User:Ymblanter: Being American/Iranian/Dutch/etc is a legal term. In the latest version of her CV, she describes her citizenship as "Iranian". Regarding the working etc, she has published an academic paper and a famous book on number theory during her BSc study in Iran. Taha (talk) 19:32, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Good, then she is American and Iranian mathematician (or Iranian and American, I do not care). This is not about citizenship, this is about affiliation.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:36, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Please ignore the extra random facts that I provided after my second sentence and just take a brief look at the Citizenship article. Taha (talk) 20:43, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
I did. I absolutely do not dispute the fact that she is an Iranian citizen.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:49, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
We have a source saying that she was a citizen of Iran in 2006. Long time ago. Did she become a USA citizen? Roger (talk) 23:51, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
The fact that she is a longtime resident of California,made things complicated.I mean,given the fact that she has done some extraordinary research with regards to her age,and being a professor at Stanford University,she is definitely eligible to receive EB-1 or EB-2 Visas. Please notice that it's been a longtime that she resides in US,and If we do not consider the time period which she's been a student at Harvard University,she absolutely needed some kind of Visa remain in US for such a longtime after her graduation. I believe she has one of these Visas which I have mentioned above. She just decided not express it publicly. 2.178.218.59 (talk) 01:44, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Please do not enter your speculations as facts in the article. She is an Iranian and the media points to this. Even acquiring a citizenship does not automatically make you of that country as Gérard Depardieu is not a russian actor. As per living in California, it does not prove anything regarding her nationality. Terence Tao has been living there way before here while he's never being called an American guy. Please accept the reality that an Iranian has won this prize.--Drako (talk) 03:51, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

It's largely a matter of self identification. If she becomes a US citizen, and says "I'm American", then tag her as such.Two kinds of pork (talk) 04:32, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Good, I see I was already accused in POV and adding unsourced material, whereas nobody here really addresses my point preferring to attack a strawman. Well, continue without me. I do not have absolutely any interest in this article.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:51, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
    Copied from MOS:BLPLEAD (which is a guideline):

#Context (location, nationality, or ethnicity);

    1. In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if notable mainly for past events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable.
    2. Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability.

--Ymblanter (talk) 08:11, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

According to your logic, Messi would be a spanish footballer, not an argentinian, Fabio Luisi an american conductor, not an italian and so forth. Your self-assessment is irrelevant here. Mirzakhanis self-assessment would be of greater importance. About the guidelines you posted: Do you have proof that she is american citizen? This is the only relevant point here. In this case, describing her as Iranian-American would be proper.--Severino (talk) 08:36, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

First, the guideline says explicitly that the residence (in her case, place of work) is important, irrespectively of the citizenschip, and the point whether she is a US citizen is completely irrelevant; it says nothing about self-assessment. Second, as I stated before, I would not object to describing her as Iranian-American mathematician, but other users for whatever reason do not want "American" mentioned in the lede despite the fact she is working at the US university.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:00, 17 August 2014 (UTC)


Read your own edit: "...the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident...". Not "irrespectively of the citizenship"! And I meant YOUR self-assessment with which you began the thread and which you cite as an example for the description of Mirzakhani.--Severino (talk) 09:30, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Again: in her case, since she is a long-time current US resident (nobody disputes this?) the guideline says that this fact should be mentioned in the lede. For this, it is irrelevant whether she is a US citizen or not. I really fail to understand what is ambiguous here.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:33, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
The issue of Nationality is vague and ambiguous. At least there are 5 ways to define the Nationality: 1) Nationality as ethnicity,2) Nationality as Citizenship,3) Nationality as current place of living or working, 4) Nationality as the place where someone grows up and raising, and 5) Nationality as cultural and family-based self-determination. If we consider these together,I think it's better to add "American" to the lede. In larger scheme,it seems it would be better to replace nationality with birthplace in all biographies to preserve neutrality policy of Wikipedia articles. Rezameyqani (talk) 09:34, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
It seems that the gaps in editors opinions about subject of Prof. Mirzakhani's nationality is much wider than previously thought, and it may result in serious dispute whether her nationality should be mentioned or her birthplace,or even her current residency. So I suggest that we bring this issue to the Mediation Committe.Do you agree? Rezameyqani (talk) 10:41, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
To be honest, I do not have time for it. If I am the only one thinking the lede should mention she is an American mathematician, just drop it.--Ymblanter (talk) 10:50, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
@Ymblanter No,You are not.At least I support your views. Rezameyqani (talk) 11:03, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
I haven't checked yet if Ymblanters guidelines are cited correct but what he posted here is this:

"...the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if notable mainly for past events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable...previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability.." So this seems to be a matter of discretion: citizenship or residence, now or when she/he became notable or in the past (when notable). Iranian-American would be Ok for me.--Severino (talk) 14:25, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

I think there are two possible solution to reslove this dispute: 1)introducing her as an Iranian-American ,2)introducing her as an Iraninan-born mathematician who currently resides in California,US,and removing nationality in scientist infobox(my preferred solution). If we could not reach a consensus on this dispute,I strongly recommend referring to the Mediation Committee. Your comments are welcomed. Rezameyqani (talk) 15:31, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
To be clear, there should not be any dispute about her citizenship as a legal status. She herself declares her citizenship as Iranian. Thus, she is an Iranian who resides at California. Taha (talk) 18:28, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Just a remark that the CV is from 2005.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:33, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, the CV is from 2005 which looks a bit outdated, but please note that there are plenty of sources out there who claims that she is an Iranian mathematician. I do not understand why we should call her an American or even Iranian-American, while there is no source for American citizenship (this would be OR). But, "an Iranian mathematician who currently works/resides in America", looks OK to me. -- Bkouhi (talk) 21:36, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
The CV which @Taha mentioned is dated back to 2005. In that time period, she was a research fellow at Clay institute . After that , she was appointed as an assistant professor of mathematics at Princeton university and shortly after in 2008, she is appointed as a professor at Stanford university. As we can see, many changes happened to Prof. Mirzakhani's career, that has not been mentioned in that CV. So, anyone can cast doubt on the credibility of that CV, and I believe we must discuss CV's credibility,too. Also, without any doubt, being a professor at a university, is a job! According to US residency laws, any foreigner who wants to work in US,he/she must have some kind of employment Visa. If you look at the Wikipedia article about permanent residency in US, you will find out that some employment visas will eventually lead to permanent US residency(i.e. EB-1 or EB-2). So I believe that the best way to end this dispute is to contact with her or her legal representative to obtain reliable information about citizenship. Finally,I think my proposal about editing this article(i.e.introducing her as an Iraninan-born mathematician who currently resides in California,US,and removing nationality in scientist infobox)can help us to reach a consensus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rezameyqani (talkcontribs) 22:40, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

You can't write "Iranian-American" unless you find a reliable source that says she is a US citizen or a reliable source saying that she identifies as an American (which lots of foreign academics working in the USA do not). You don't even know if she has a permanent US visa. I know academics who have lived longer than her in the USA and just renew their temporary visas every few years. Wikipedia is intended as an encyclopaedia which ordinary people can visit to learn some facts. Don't expect them to dig into the arcana of Wikipedia rules in order to understand what the first sentence of the article really means; just tell them the facts you can source in a way they will understand. The known facts are that she is Iranian and that she has lived in the USA since whenever it was. Just say that and let the readers decide to think of her as Iranian-American or not. Zerotalk 04:40, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Another reason is that Iranian-American says "Iranian-Americans, or Persian-Americans, are Americans of Iranian (Persian) ancestry or people possessing Iranian and American dual citizenship." while Americans says "Americans, or American people, are citizens of the United States of America.". So US citizenship is required both ways if you aren't going to contradict Wikipedia itself. Zerotalk 04:45, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
  • If there are no further objections I am going to change the lede to "Iranian mathematician working in the United States". My understanding that this is the consensus in this discussion, and also compliant with the Manual of Style.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:27, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Agreed. Please remove nationality from scientist info box, because in "Born" section in info box it's mentioned the she was born in Iran. Thank you Rezameyqani (talk) 08:21, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Oppose, there is no reason to remove the nationality from the Infobox, I think it should explicitly mentioned, the "Born" section has nothing to do with the nationality and I see no point in removing the nationality from the Infobox. -- Bkouhi (talk) 13:23, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
@Bkouhi If you can give me a CLEAR definition of "Nationality", I withdraw my proposal.I believe the subject of birthplace is far less disputable and far more agreeable than subject of nationality. We must create consensus,and not to insist on things that separate us.Thank you. Rezameyqani (talk) 15:55, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
"Iranian mathematician working in the United States" would be fine in my opinion. Infobox is something else.--Severino (talk) 16:33, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
@Rezameyqani: I think we don't need to define the "nationality" word, it is not our duty to define something (WP:OR). We have sources that claims that she is an Iranian (in other words, her nationality is Iranian), the source has already defined the "nationality" word, all we need to do is just quote the source. This would be OR if we try to define the "nationality" word, IMO. -- Bkouhi (talk) 16:58, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
@Bkouhi You are claiming that you have sources that claim she is an Iranian.what kind of sources they are?you probably mean the outdated CV. Am I right? In that CV we can see citizenship,and I think you think that nationality is equal to citizenship.Am I right about this? Rezameyqani (talk) 17:35, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
She's born in Iran, grown up there, has been part of the IRANIAN national team, has studied in an Iranian university and has won several national titles in IRAN, herself has clearly stated that she's IRANIAN, what you'll are saying here is beyond me. What the hell of a source should one provide to prove she is from that place? Can someone please tell me what is all this deliberate targeting of this article about? Why doesn't anyone talk about Talk:Martin Hairer who's Austrian and is living in the UK? Or Terence Tao who is Australian and lives in the US? Please stop this baseless fruitless discussion and accept what the sources tell you. Drako (talk) 04:52, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
OK,Do whatever you want.I whithdraw completely.you do not want to even read what I was written here properly.bye. Rezameyqani (talk) 08:49, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
The situation with Hairer is even worse, since he actually never lived in Austria (was born and studied in Geneva), but him I know in person and do not want to deal with that article because of possible conflict of interests.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:52, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
@Ymblanter, I suggest you not to discuss the matter of the professor Mirzakhani's"Nationality" here anymore.You know why?Because there are people here whom they are complete definition of this French proverb:"Celui qui dort peut être réveillé, mais quelqu'un dont il prétend qu'il dort ne peut pas être réveillé."Rezameyqani (talk) 08:49, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
@Rezameyqani: Please be more considerate, we are not pretending to sleep, if you want to say something, say it with civility, talking that way will get you nowhere. In regard to sources, just Google it, you will find plenty of them: [1], [2], [3]. -- Bkouhi (talk) 10:16, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
@Bkouhi,I already told you,I do not have anymore time to spare on this discussion,Is this clear enough? I'm gradually understand why there is so much debate about the credibility of Wikipedia articles.There are some "editors" here who do not even know what kind of sources are reliable.This is why there is course in top universities for analyzing the references.I suggest you to read the stories of vigorous efforts by Dr Gholamhossein Mossaheb ,the Chief editor of Persian Encyclopedia.Senior editors always was complaining about his methods,You know why?because he never trusted contents of newspapers or magazines,unless they give a reliable and updated evidence.This is what a true encyclopedia does.Not like the flow of editing in almost any Wikipedia articles.Rezameyqani (talk) 10:40, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
She was a world star, two times Mathematics olympiad gold medalist way before she resided in the US and she carried and continued to carry Iranian nationality. Calling her Iranian-American is POV. I suggest we write: " was an Iranian mathematician and a professor at several American Universities ... ". That already says that she resided in the US. Sangak Talk 18:33, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Controversy[edit]

There is also an issue raised here.[4] Roger (talk) 23:51, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

I see someone removed the section in question. I agree with removing the bizarre speculation about going back to Iran and facing lashing, but I would have kept the news that the President of Iran congratulated her, and tweeted a picture without a head scarf. Roger (talk) 00:23, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
That would be OK. The opinion of members of the iranian regime about a woman w/o a scarf are given to much importance in the version which was posted; beside the fact that it was mainly speculation.--Severino (talk) 08:29, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Mr. Rouhani does not have a tweeter (sic) account, I learned at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Maryam_Mirzakhani. I'm sorry, but the news is bogus. --rtc (talk) 10:38, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Thank you rtc for the clarification. Since two more users were changing the part, I removed the entire twitter thing to reach some consensus and perhaps put something in the article. These are the sources:
I still doubt whether this matter deserves any coverage at all. Anyhow, please express your opinion about this. Taha (talk) 06:21, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
I predict that if you don't mention it at all, something will be constantly re-added by random users, and it will probably be less accurate. --rtc (talk) 12:15, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
I support removing the material per WP:UNDUE. Kaldari (talk) 19:46, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Nationality or Birthplace?[edit]

82.8.62.228 (talk) 18:40, 18 August 2014 (UTC) Why should it be removed? Prof MIRZAKHANI is Iranian, and this fact is documented in various sources, including media. Do you have any problem with that? The WikiPedia page of all Fields Medal winners mentions their nationality, why should this one not follow the same pattern?

Headscarf and tweets[edit]

Can someone explain why this is in the article? Just because some newspapers reported on it, doesn't mean we should use it without explaining the significance of this.Two kinds of pork (talk) 06:07, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

I think it should be mentioned.

research work[edit]

Why is the president of Iran congratulating her in the section discussing her research?--345Kai (talk) 00:19, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

working in the US?[edit]

It is redundant to say in the first line she's working in the US when next sentence asserts that she's a Stanford professor. --Drako (talk) 22:57, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

It is also redundant to say she is Iranian whereas the infobox states this. There are many people who know what the US is and much less who know where Stanford is located. Additionally, she spent her entire career in the US starting with the grad school, not just in Stanford.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:39, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
This is putting way too much weight as the place of residence which is not supported by the wiki policies. Nowhere you find articles opened like this. If they do not know, it can be written like Standord University, California, USA. No need to add such a fabricated thing.--Drako (talk) 06:42, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
It has to be added per manual of style. Additionally, in the topic above I discussed the addition and got consensus for it.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:44, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Pictures/images of her[edit]

lt would be nice if someone could upload her photo. 212.174.135.252 (talk) 15:11, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

I concur. - LouisAragon (talk) 15:02, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

On the issue of residence...[edit]

@David Eppstein The first sentence states:"Maryam Mirzakhani (Persian: مریم میرزاخانی‎; born May 1977) is an Iranian[1] mathematician in the United States". By "In the United States",what are we trying to say?She just works in US,but resides elsewhere?She resides in US and works there too?it's vague.Besides,There should not be any reason to get concerned for including her current residence in the first sentence,since her page states that she resides in US.Rezameyqani (talk) 21:09, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

We should list the nation that she lives in and works in, in the first sentence of the article, rather than trying to rewrite that first sentence to pretend that she is only Iranian and that her residence in the US is somehow temporary or unimportant. If you want to rewrite it as stating that she is an Iranian immigrant to the US, rather than stating that she is Iranian and putting the US part later in the sentence, that woud be ok too, but removing the US part from the first sentence is wrong and frankly smells like inappropriate nationalism to me. —David Eppstein (talk) 21:18, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Disagree.She's Iranian and she resides in US.we do not know for sure that whether she's permanent US resident or not.Rezameyqani (talk) 21:42, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
The word "currently" in your preferred phrasing indicates that you believe this status is temporary. But you have given no evidence for this, and in the other direction she has been living in the US for 15 years, she is married to a (Czech) westerner who's also been living in the US for the same amount of time, and she has a permanent (tenured) job at a US university. There is zero evidence that her home in the US is anything but permanent. In fact even the evidence that her citizenship still lies with Iran is very weak: it's a curriculum vitae from over ten years ago. The current phrasing that she is based in the US is accurate, does not depend on knowledge of her citizenship or residency, does not need changing, and should not be changed in a way that reflects a nationalistic agenda. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:26, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
If you look at the above discussions which I took part last year on this issue,you'll see that I have your view about her residency,but we should not edit Wiki on our gut feelings or our guesses!You're the one that claims that she's US permanent resident.You're the one that must being some evidence,not me!!!Having a tenured job at somewhere doesn't mean that someone is "permanent resident" of that country.country. Kontsevich is a tenured professor of math at Rutgers,but he spends most of his time in France.Does this make him a US permanent resident??Rezameyqani (talk) 23:45, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Learn to read. Being a permanent resident of the US is a specific legal status that I made no claims about. I claimed that her visa status is irrelevant for determining how to write about the fact that she lives and works in the US. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:47, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
You're accusing me of not reading your words properly,it's amazing!I didn't bring nationalistic agenda.it's ridiculous to say so!That CV from 10 yrs ago is outdated??OK.Show me a new version of her CV,and then I will cease talking.I know all of things you've said about her.All of'em.even more.But I gave up editing her page bc I didn't have any solid evidence about her residency status.I know she spends most of her time in US,but this 'spending of time' IS NOT enough...Rezameyqani (talk) 23:58, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
We had this discussion already twice on this page. WP:MOS says we should indicate where she works in the lede. Legal questions aside, she is residing and working in the US. The previous version, which emerged from the discussion, was "Iranian mathematician working in the United States", and I still think it well describes the subject of the article.--Ymblanter (talk) 03:24, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
@Ymblanter (talk) Due to numerous attempts to settle this issue,and failure of almost every proposed solutions,I brought this to the mediation committee.These disagreements have a long history for themselves,at least from the past year.Rezameyqani (talk) 09:06, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
There is not a single source for "American" claim and it should be removed. A nationalistic agenda could be credited to David and similar users, I should remind you there are thousands of foreign scientists working in the USA but nationality adjective in leading sentence doesn't change. --MehrdadFR (talk) 12:23, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
The POV pushers want to lead to say "Iranian", whereas there is a clear consensus that she was an American professor, since she did not work for a single minute in Iran, and that this fact must must be mentioned in the lede. "Iranian-American" was a compromise.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:18, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
She was a world star, two times Mathematics olympiad gold medalist way before she resided in the US and she carried and continued to carry Iranian nationality. Calling her Iranian-American is POV. I suggest we write: " was an Iranian mathematician and a professor at several American Universities ... ". That already says that she resided in the US. Sangak Talk 18:30, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
No, calling her Iranian is POV. For the whole world, a Stanford professor = an American professor, does not matter what nationality she has. (Actually, I suspect she had both, but this is a different issue).--Ymblanter (talk) 18:54, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
And a winner of an Olympiad is not a mathematician, whoever brilliant they can be. A mathematician is whoever does mathematics as their profession.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:57, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
@Ymblanter, calling her "Iranian-American" without sources about dual citizenship is POV. Honestly I don't know did she held an American citizenship which implies I can be wrong, a proper source would solve everything. Personal's WP:OR are irrelevant, and claim "Stanford professor = an American professor" doesn't make sense. Example: Mr. Ernst Herzfeld has worked in Iran for most of his life, as both explorer and professor, and his status of professor at Berlin university was only on paper. Later he also worked as professor in Boston, Princeton and New York, but still he is only a German. Not an Iranian, not an American. Another example is Arthur Upham Pope, he worked for years in Iran as a professor, he died there and he was also buried there. Still, he is only an American. There are numerous other examples. --MehrdadFR (talk) 19:06, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
I would not object changing these examples to the actual places they worked. I do not see how mentioning that she worked in the US is POV. Actually, the opposite, not mentioning it in the lede, is POV. It is incorrect to say that she was Iranian mathematician whereas she did not work a single minute in Iran.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:09, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
Ok, there are too many Iranian POV pushers here. I unwatch the page. Write whatever you want, I do not care. Wikipedia has a lot of junk, there is just another article turned to junk. Great.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:11, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
@Ymblanter, that's correct, but I see David's edits as an extreme opposite. Considering she has been in the USA for about ten years, we may conclude there's quite possibility that she gained American citizenship in meanwhile, but there are not enough sources about her private life for confirmation. Perhaps we should find it out very soon, many articles will soon appear. As I stated above, this is only a citizenship issue. I agree about your remarks about career - for sure it should be mention in lead sentence and I would strongly oppose any POV attempt of removing it. --MehrdadFR (talk) 19:45, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
Let me repeat, since it seems to have gotten lost among the mass of POV-pushing above: she was a member of the US National Academy of Sciences. One of their rules is that members must be US citizens. Therefore, she was a US citizen. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:43, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
According to the this website, you're right. They split membership to domestic and foreign, and Mirzakhani is listed under first. Dave, you should mention this earlier and avoid childish stories about marriage (I almost assumed she's half-Czech). :) --MehrdadFR (talk) 19:53, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
Now this really became a mess. I was one who inserted {{dubious}} template, asking source about American citizenship here, but after David Eppstein gave important notice about NAS, I reverted template myself, left only "Iranian-American", and said "David Eppstein has confirmed it, bravo!". Soon after, David has responded with "I have confirmed nothing. I have merely stopped edit-warring. You should too; your nationalistic POV-pushing does not improve the encyclopedia". This confuses me, probably he didn't even check my changes. NAS' Membership Overview says "Members must be U.S. citizens; non-citizens are elected as foreign associates", and on this list we see Mirzakhani was listed under non-foreign (U.S. citizen) members. So, David actually did confirmed she's an Iranian-American. After article is unlocked, I suggest David Eppstein or Ymblanter to: (1) restore Iranian-American, (2) use cite_note-39 as reference in both lead and infobox, (3) undo this edit. That's it. I really didn't know about NAS, it would be easier if two of them mentioned it earlier instead of referring to career which is as I said irrelevant for nationality adjective. --MehrdadFR (talk) 20:31, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

She's clearly had both Iranian and American citizenships. The question is now whether the sentence "Mirzakhani was an Iranian/Iranian-American/whatever mathematician" refers to her nationality or citizenship. But whatever we decide to write as the first sentence, these two facts (citizenship and nationality) should be included elsewhere (infobox, for example) in the article. Physicsch (talk) 02:47, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Edit Warring[edit]

⚠ Warning Please stop. Seek WP:CONSENSUS here. Thank you. (This page is not on my watch list. If my attention is required please ping me or drop me a line on my talk page.) -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:06, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

American[edit]

Per NAS, members of the National Academy must be U.S. citizens [6], otherwise they'll be elected as "foreign associates". Mirzakhani has been elected as a member [7], so she must have been a U.S. citizen. This should be reflected in the article. --Drako (talk) 20:18, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Personal life[edit]

Please rearrange the personal life section to be in chronological order, as follows. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:14, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Mirzakhani was married to Jan Vondrák, a Czech theoretical computer scientist and applied mathematician who is an associate professor at Stanford University;[1] they had a daughter named Anahita.[2] Mirzakhani was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2013.[3] After four years, it spread to her bone marrow.[4] She died on 15 July 2017.[5]

  1. ^ "Jan Vondrák" (PDF). Stanford University. Retrieved 14 July 2017. 
  2. ^ "A Tenacious Explorer of Abstract Surfaces", simonsfoundation.org. Retrieved 13 April 2014.
  3. ^ http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2017/07/13/528317/Iran-mathematician-Maryam-Mirzakhani
  4. ^ France-Presse, Agence. "Sorrow as Maryam Mirzakhani, the first woman to win mathematics' Fields Medal, dies aged 40". The Telegraph. Retrieved 15 July 2017. 
  5. ^ "Maryam Mirzakhani died" (in Persian). Mehr news Agancy. 15 July 2017. 
 Done Eden5 (talk) 20:03, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 16 July 2017[edit]

Can some one please unblock the page so thai I can edit the death place of this person and her father? [1][2] Malayedit (talk) 04:38, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

I want to edit the fact that her daughter was 6 years old + she died of breast cancer where the cancer spread to her bone marrow.

Metalreflectslime (talk) 08:42, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

References

Page is already unlocked. Eden5 (talk) 20:05, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Free-use photo replacement[edit]

Suggestion[edit]

Interesting article. I suggest mentioning the date of her death and the cause of it in the lead section. Best, Doctor Papa Jones • (Click here to collect your prize!) 10:36, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Iranian[edit]

I think this should be Iranian. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:44, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

I think it should be Iranian-American. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:41, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
I was commenting only on the dab link. That lasted 8 minutes (as per the request below), but has now been delinked altogether (with the edit summary "dl"). But the discussion above seems to be unresolved. The infobox still gives just "Nationality" not "Citizenship", and does not accord with the first line of the article? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:18, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

There is no question here, not even a debate. Various Iranian news channels and magazines have conducted regular interviews with her (from 1994 until April 2017). She was merely a U.S. residence and not a citizen. She was Iranian, and she herself identified as Iranian in her interviews and Résumés. The IRIB has done an interview with her family members (including her husband) and friends in which they all talk about how proud of an Iranian she was and that's why she named her daughter Anahita. Furthermore, In spite of the fact that she was entitled to apply for citizenship, she did not. She did not even apply to become a naturalized citizen. This whole 'debate' here is artificial and irrelevant, and what some editors are rather disingenuously trying (and failing) to promote is nothing short of a propaganda. She was an Iranian, not Iranian-American. That is a fact. Furthermore, she did her undergraduate, postgraduate, and won the International Mathematical Olympiad whilst also in Iran. The only valid case for using "Iranian-American" is if she had a U.S. citizenship - which she did not. Nor did she, even remotely, identify herself as American. She was Iranian and identified herself as such in every appropriate occasion. This article ought to be semi-protected as long as certain users attempt to make some perverted changes to promote a particular geopolitical narrative. Neutral Observer (talk) 16:35, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

I understand that you would like to believe that she was not American. But how do you explain that the National Academy listed her in their category of members who are US citizens, and not in the category for noncitizens? —David Eppstein (talk) 17:05, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

I recommend you to read what I wrote again. This is not a matter of "belief". Although, I appreciate that you are not in a position to contact the National Academy to ask for an explanation in order to clarify this rather silly situation. Not only she was not a U.S. citizen, she was not even a naturalised citizen. The vast majority of her interviews in last 15 years were conducted in Persian. Given the sudden event of the last 96 hours, the level of demand for information in the English media has been overwhelming. Therefore, various Persian outlets including (but not limited to) Iran Broadcasting University, Zanan, POOSHESH, IRNA, have been trying to prioritise and translate some materials into English. In fact, I am aware that the BBC Persian tried contacting the National Academy on a number of occasions to seek clarification. But then her family members were contacted whom then clarified the issue, and hence, the BBC article identified her as Iranian. As I said, the IRIB, Daneshmand, Jame Jam TV and many others, have done a number of interviews with her, her family (husband), and university professors (at Sharif, Harvard, and Princeton). Maryam Mirzakhani has said in all those interviews - as the question was very specifically asked - that she identified herself as Iranian. In fact, she has rewritten poems (in Persian) dedicated to her love for her motherland. She specifically did not want to apply for citizenship and purposely decided not to talk about it. Giving the National Academy the benefit of the doubt, this vagueness may have been the reason for their shamble administrative work. However, I am doubtful as the university faculty and the relevant medical authorities were all aware of her immigration status. This is not a matter of opinion or one's beliefs. Neutral Observer (talk) 18:40, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

You are repeating yourself forcefully, but you are not providing verifiable documentation for your claims. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:43, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

It is very obvious that you are not familiar with the most rudimentary principles of academia and proof. The burden of proof is on you, not me, or others that have objected to such propaganda type of editing. Even using the Wikipedias policy of available information, right at this moment, outweighs what you, in fact, are the one forcefully propagating here. Neutral Observer (talk) 18:58, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Despite your misinformed bluster, the fact remains that we have an actual verifiable source for her US citizenship (the national academy) and none for your claims that she never took US citizenship. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:05, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

I have to say, I am rather amused by your nonsense. BBC Persian Pooneh Ghoddoos and Kasra Naji, prior to publishing the article, had contacted her mother to get a confirmation. Rana Rahimpour - another BBC Persian employee - is yet to receive any response from the National Academy. Gholamali Khoshroo - Iran's ambassador to the United Nations, CNN, ABC, and all the other mainstream sources that Wikipedia uses as an authority, none have referred to her as an "Iranian-Amercian". Her husband - Jan Vondrák - also described her in the interview with Daneshmand as Iranian. The National Academy cannot be taken as the single source of "proof", without any consensus, whilst ignoring the direct contradicting information available via mainstream sources. I suspect some of those interviews and other relevant materials will be translated into English soon enough. But it appears that the National Academy is better informed about the legal status of Maryam Mirzakhani than herself, her husband, her family, and the Permanent Representative of Iran to the United Nations. I will be even more amused in a week or so when this perverted issue is put to rest, and you yourself are forced to revert any changes. Neutral Observer (talk) 21:10, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Further information has come to light, thereby confirming the fact that Maryam Mirzakhani was not a U.S. citizen and merely "made the United States her permanent home". Here is the National Iranian American Council statement on Dr. Mirzakhani: https://www.niacouncil.org/niac-statement-passing-maryam-mirzakhani/ which is a proof that Dr. Mirzakhani was not an American.

This is in line with the articles produced by the New York Times, Scientific American, BBC, and many others. It may come as a surprise to some editors here, but media outlets such as the New York Times and the BBC, have a high editorial standard. Prior to releasing the statement, the NIAC directors - Elham Khatami and Reza Marashi - confirmed Dr. Mirzakhani's legal status directly through her husband Jan Vondrák. Furthermore, Firouz Naderi, a friend of Dr. Mirzakhani, and Sanam Narghani-Anderlini, a regular contributor at the Atlantic Council, have also confirmed this. Neutral Observer (talk) 20:45, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

I read the NIAC statement three times and it simply does not say what you claim. On the contrary, the words "made the United States her permanent home", repeat permanent home, strongly suggest that she became a US citizen. Being a US citizen does not prevent someone from being proud of their Iranian heritage as she obviously was. Zerotalk 21:19, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
A green card is permanent, but a green card holder is not a citizen. NPalgan2 (talk) 21:22, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

@NPalgan2 - Yes exactly. One cannot adopt a creative interpretation in order to suit one's narrative. The fact of the matter is, as confirmed by her family (mother and husband), friends, the NIAC, NYT, BBC - and various other mainstream sources - she was not an American passport holder/citizen, therefore not an American. That is a fact. Neutral Observer (talk) 21:54, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

@Zerotalk - There is no claim or paraphrasing for that matter. That quote is taken directly from the NIAC statement. For the sake of clarification, I will copy and paste the entirety of the NIAC statement.

Quote:

NIAC Statement on Passing of Maryam Mirzakhani

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Elham Khatami Phone: 202 386 6325 Email: ekhatami@niacouncil.org

Washington, D.C. – Elham Khatami released this statement following the untimely death of Maryam Mirzakhani, the first woman to win the Fields Medal for mathematics:

“We offer our sincerest condolences to the friends and family of Stanford Professor Maryam Mirzakhani, who was the first woman and first Iranian to win the prestigious Fields Medal. In her short 40 years, she left an indelible mark on the world.

“Professor Mirzakhani grew up in Iran, attended Harvard, and eventually made the United States her permanent home. While her achievements are extraordinary, her story is common. Thousands of Iranians have come to the US and made immense contributions to our society, especially in the sciences. Luckily for the nation, Professor Mirzakhani was one of those ambitious young people who was given the chance to realize her full potential in the US. The best way for the country to honor her legacy and contributions is to keep the door of opportunity open to others like her so that they may continue her life’s work."

End quote.

She was not an American. Only Iranian. That is a fact. Neutral Observer (talk) 22:19, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

This is a perfect example of original research. There are lots of Iranians with other citizenships (I know many myself) and you have produced only bluster against the possibility that she was an example. I don't care about your unsourced assertions and shouting them loudly only emphasises the weakness of your case. Show us a solid reliable source saying explicitly that "she did not become a US citizen". If you can't do that, your argument is based on nothing. Zerotalk 09:50, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

This is not an example of original research. That is just your opinion. There is no "we" here, and you certainly do not have the mandate to speak on anyone's behalf. The default assumption is not that Maryam Mirzakhani was an American until proven otherwise. None of the available information describes her as an "Iranian-American". None. The National Iranian American Council is a source of authority and also a reliable source. Their statement is a proof that she was not, in fact, American. Furthermore, your assertion that the threshold for proof, in this case, is only met if "a solid reliable source saying explicitly that "she did not become a US citizen" - is your personal view and not that of Wikipedia's policy or community. Individual editors do not determine or outright define such parameters. Indeed, we do not have any source - reliable or otherwise - that have described Dr. Mirzakhani as an "Iranian-American", and many that assert she was only Iranian. Assuming for the moment, however, that this a form of original research (which is not), the fact remains that her husband, mother, and friends, have all confirmed that she was not an American. An example of original research would be if I included in this page my email correspondence with NIAC's Elham Khatami, inquiring about Dr. Mirzakhani legal status and Khatami's response that Maryam Mirzakhani was merely a Permanent residence - a Green Card holder. And as another editor - NPalgan2 - pointed out: "A green card is permanent, but a green card holder is not a citizen." I think it would be clear to anyone reading your last comment that you appear to be adopting a creative and somewhat desperate interpretation to suit your narrative. I submit that, even right at this moment, cumulatively, the mainstream sources such as the BBC, NYT, Scientific American (amongst many others), in conjunction with the National Iranian American Council statement, is a proof that Dr. Mirzakhani was not an "Iranian-American". Neutral Observer (talk) 14:40, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

I have incidentally noticed that there are too many threads here about whether she was "Iranian" or "Iranian-American" and after carefully reading the discussion above, my opinion is that we cannot consider herself to be "Iranian-American" unless we have reliable sources claiming that she obtained a US citizenship at any time during her life. Those claiming that she was surely a US citizen because she was awarded a prize that only American citizens can be awarded with are actually involving themselves in an original research or more specifically in a build-up of a synthesis with no reliable sources to support their claim. It is very simple and not worth wasting someone's time for such an extremely extensive discussion: just find a reliable source mentioning she was American and we are going to change it from "Iranian" to "Iranian-American".--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:11, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Exactly. The percentage of sources claiming she's Iranian is high. Slug like you (talk) 08:20, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 16 July 2017[edit]

dab link: change

was an [[Iranian]]

to

 was an [[Iran|Iranian]]

Widefox; talk 14:55, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

No, it should be Iranian-American as already discussed above. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:40, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
 Done For the time being, it's been disambiguated. Eden5 (talk) 20:09, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
David Eppstein oops, now I've meddled have to help out... agree unlinked is better than my edit suggestion above. Your argument about citizenship based on US National Academy of Sciences membership is persuasive. A source for her citizenship would help, considering. Hmm, BBC uses "Iranian" [8] which is what I'd read before dabbing the link and fixing the dab. The news narrative is quite clear, that the mathematician was female and Iranian.
[[Iranian diaspora|Iranian]]
should be a good start to build on until we have a source for the American citizenship? Widefox; talk 11:00, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Found Video/article with Marayam[edit]

https://www.quantamagazine.org/maryam-mirzakhani-is-first-woman-fields-medalist-20140812

^ She is talking about her life and some of her work.

Also a picture form Flickr https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3857/14905300946_09fbe83f8e_b.jpg


Popcrate (talk) 05:35, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 July 2017[edit]

change date of death July 15 to July 14. Source: Revised obituary of the Standford University 141.67.155.41 (talk) 07:31, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Changed date of death with the Stanford obituary as reference. – Einstein2 (talk) 08:36, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Muslim?[edit]

Discussion on faith of her husband is misleading. Claims by Guardian journalist is sourceless and just a presumption. Should be dropped from Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calmath (talkcontribs) 19:31, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

This was added: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maryam_Mirzakhani&diff=791039985&oldid=791038797 It's the only outlet making this claim about Mirzakhani and Hossein Modarressi and appears to be someone's blog hosted by not well known press agency. Removing it until better sources substantiate it. NPalgan2 (talk) 19:44, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

@NPalgan2: The author of that piece is Rasool Jafarian d:Q5964599, a well-known professor of history in University of Tehran. His reliability in wiki has been discussed here: wp:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 139#Rasul Jafarian (Also Rasool, or Rasoul). Taha (talk) 19:59, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
Taha Thanks, but what we have is that Rasool Jafarian says that Hossein Modarressi says that Mirzakhani was a Muslim by faith. If it's going to be in the article then sourcing for the claim should be included. NPalgan2 (talk) 20:14, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
@NPalgan2: I agree and changed accordingly. However, we don't need to have "Jafarian says ...", because he is only reporting Modarressi's statement. Given that he is a reliable source, just referring to his article would be enough. Do you agree? Taha (talk) 20:21, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
that's fine with me. NPalgan2 (talk) 20:23, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Categorization/Ethnicity, gender, religion and sexuality: we can only include her religion if "reliable sources commonly and consistently define[1] the subject as having" that religion. In this case, some cleric making self-serving claims about Mirzakhani's religion, in the absence of statements from Mirzakhani herself and in the absence of evidence of noteworthy religious activity from her, is highly unconvincing. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:26, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
@David Eppstein: I agree with what you said. But, sadly, the topic of her religion is currently very hot in some circuits; which, again, is quite unfortunate. The report that I had cited has a lot more than her just being Muslim, but I felt that it is undue weight given that her main activity had been in the math world. I will wait until several reliable sources report it. Taha (talk) 23:21, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
"Hot in some circuits" is very different from "meets Wikipedia standards for inclusion". But I am un-watchlisting this article, because it makes me too upset to see nationalist and religious POV-pushers working so hard to plant their flags on her dead body. Someone else will have to deal with it, not me. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:35, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
Indian The Caravan labled here: "first Muslim to win the prestigious Fields Medal in mathematics". Pahlevun (talk) 12:54, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

In addition to being Iranian with a U.S. Permanent Resident (as established by the National Iranian American Council[1]), we now have Dr. Hamid Dabashi - the Hagop Kevorkian Professor of Iranian Studies and Comparative Literature at Columbia University, and, Dr. Abbas Milani Professor of Political Science and the Director of the Iranian Studies Program at Stanford University, also confirming that she was a Muslim. The former - Dr. Dabashi - has recently written an article on Al Jazeera - "From Khayyam to Mirzakhani: Iran's beautiful minds" [2], and the latter - Dr. Milani - has given interviews[3] about the subject in Persian. Dr. Amir Jaafari, an old friend and a classmate of Maryam Mirzakhani, has talked about how proud she was of being an Iranian[4]. Furthermore, after all the perverted nonsense surrounding her (some of which is reflected here i.e. attempting to plant an American flag on her dead body and falsifying her identity), her father Ahmad Mirzakhani, and her husband Jan Vondrák - published a video[5] saying that they will hold an event at Standford University (which is being organised by Dr. Milani) to talk about her personal life. Neutral Observer (talk) 16:43, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Please do not misrepresent me. It is not the American flag that I was referring to in that comment. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:24, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Dear all, I added a piece on her faith in the page. I am referring to several sources that confirms her faith. First her father and brother in crediblle and credited Persian media confirmed she was buried according to Shia Islam tradition. Second, Hosein Modarresi is a renown scholar and credited Persian media reported from him and he did not refute those reports after at least a week. Third, Abdolhosein Mokhtabad and Abdolali Bazargan in personal pages confirmed they were present at her burial ceremony and she was buried as a Muslim. Fourth, her family had planned to hold her memorial ceremony in an Islamic organization but later merged it with Stanford. These clearly demonstrate her faith. This is totally against claim of the Guardian journalist which had claimed her husband is not Muslim with no source! Finally, Mirzakhani was born in a muslim family and her father manages a charity. It is totally logical to assume she is Muslim, unless she has clearly announced she is not. This is the standard in media to ascribe family religion to a person unless that person says otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.136.116.2 (talk) 22:46, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for replying here. In deciding whether to describe a person as a Muslim, a Christian or any other religion, wikipedia follows the policy called Wikipedia:CAT/R, which says "Categories regarding religious beliefs or lack of such beliefs of a living person should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief in question (see WP:BLPCAT), either through direct speech or through actions like serving in an official clerical position for the religion. For a dead person, there must be a verified consensus of reliable published sources that the description is appropriate." (Mirzakhani still counts as a 'living person' in our policy because she died very recently.) Simply being buried in an Islamic religious ceremony is not enough to satisfy our policy - many people are married or buried in religious ceremonies without a deep level of identification with that religion. You need to find sources where Mirzakhani self-identified as a Muslim. NPalgan2 (talk) 00:32, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
Yes. "Deducing" her religion from the ceremony is WP:OR. The story of the alleged conversion of her husband is also extremely dubious to say the least. Removing material. Again. — Gamall Wednesday Ida (t · c) 00:57, 2 August 2017 (UTC)


Thank you for your information about Wikipedia policy. When will Mirzakhani be considered dead by you or the policy that you are referring? It seems a bit strange that she is still considered a living person. What is definition of "recent"? Considering the information you provided, when she is considered dead later, then she will be fit into Wikipedia definition of Muslim because current sources all have consensus that she was Muslim. I am not saying there are extensive sources which describe details of her belief or level of ascription but the ones that exist have consensus and no credible source has refuted the existing sources. Even the Guardian article merely assumed her husband is not Muslim. Also, please be aware that being Muslim has nothing to do with deep level of identification. Many people who do not practice Islam at all, consider themselves Muslim, e.g. Sam Dastyari who is an Australian senator and many consider themselves only culturally Muslim, e.g. Orhan Pamuk. In my opinion, if someone is buried according to a religious tradition at least that person ascribes culturally to that religion. The very least that can be written in Wikipedia is that current sources have consensus that she was Muslim. It may seem strange why we are having this discussion? The reason simply is that she is high-profile beyond being a mathematician in Iran and people are using her image to push some personal agenda. So, it seems very logical to me that at least people have this information that current sources all agree that she was Muslim and no credible sources have refuted this claim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.136.116.2 (talk) 01:03, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

The policy does not apply for a fixed period of time - say 6 months to 2 years. The thing is that Sam Dastyari has publicly self-identified as a non-practicing Muslim. Wikipedia policy is not to describe someone as a - for example- Christian just because they were raised as a Christian and had a Christian burial - George Orwell was buried in an Anglican ceremony but was an atheist. Mirzakhani may have had a Muslim burial, but, even after she is no longer considered a 'living person' we will need better sources if we are to describe her as a Muslim. NPalgan2 (talk) 01:53, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Again there is a big difference between 6 month and 2 years? What source are you using to base your claim on definition of living person? The case of Orwell is different because he clearly stated that he was an atheist. In lack of any other evidence, burial according to a religious tradition is a sign for at least cultural ascription to that religion. The moral of story is that for being Muslim we don't need deep identification, nor self-expression. When all information have consensus on belief of a Person, we can still consider the information even that person is alive (I am talking beyond Wikipedia policy). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.136.116.2 (talk) 02:02, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

6months-2years comes from here Wikipedia:BDP . The important point is that wikipedia does not consider having a religious burial enough on its own to describe someone as a Christian, Buddhist or Muslim. NPalgan2 (talk) 02:13, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

was an IRANIAN mathematician?![edit]

are you kidding? so Lagrange is italian, and Einstein a swiss, and Teller was Magyar; maybe Eminem so is polish!! [and 'Bama Kenyan] Tabascofernandez (talk) 23:48, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

There are already several open threads about her nationality/citizenship above, so please do not start a new one and check if the extensive discussion yields a proper answer to your question instead.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:49, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 July 2017[edit]

I want to add reference [57] to the first line, after [5][6][1]. In other words, I want to change [5][6][1] to [5][6][1][57]. PirouzZ (talk) 09:36, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Question: Why ? DRAGON BOOSTER 10:36, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. More specifically, it's not clear why you want this change made. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 17:02, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Hello, I wanted to add a new reference to the first line of Maryam Mirzakhani page where it says "was an Iranian [5][6][1] mathematician". A reference, currently numbered as [58], is already mentioned in the page: [6]. This one, I think, is a better reference compared to [1] which is old, and even to [5] and [6], which are articles in BBC and NYT. I suggest changing [5][6][1] to [1][5][6][58]. Thanks, PirouzZ (talk) 21:04, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:12, 24 January 2018 (UTC)