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Former good article Mathematics was one of the Mathematics good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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One of the 500 most frequently viewed mathematics articles.


that's disgusting, and yes I'm aware it's in the archive. In common informal speech it's one thing, appropriate in that register. Here not. Lycurgus (talk) 02:45, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

I think we can treat the matter more dispassionately; I don't see any need to get "disgusted". But I would support removing the "often shortened to..." clause from the first sentence, and I don't feel any strong need to mention "math" or "maths" anywhere else in the article either. --Trovatore (talk) 03:33, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Why not go whole hog with some "mafs"? Lycurgus (talk) 10:44, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
For what it's worth, the short forms "math" and "maths" are both noted prominently in the mathematics articles of OED and MathWorld. Mgnbar (talk) 12:05, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
The OED is a dictionary, not an encyclopedia. MathWorld is a terrible example for almost anything. --Trovatore (talk) 18:10, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Since the common speech versions redirect to this article, I believe it important they be mentioned near the top. And I truly don't understand your (even if toned down) aversion to having them mentioned. --John (User:Jwy/talk) 14:28, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Redirected terms should be mentioned if it is otherwise reasonably likely that readers would be surprised to end up at a given article. "Wait a minute, I searched for infundibulum; why did I wind up at Kurt Vonnegut?" (Not an actual example but just to give the idea.)
For "math" and "maths", I don't think that's very likely. Anyone entering those terms into the search box already knows what they are short for, and will arrive at the intended article.
I just don't see the point of mentioning them at all. This is not a dictionary, so we don't need to talk much about the word. I'm fine with a blurb about the etymology; that gives actual information, even if it's not information about mathematics. But why do we need to talk about the informal versions? It's just a distraction that conveys very little information that a reader cannot already be assumed to know, unless it's "look at those funny Yanks (Brits); they spell maths (math) wrong", which is something that IMO is better omitted from an article on mathematics. --Trovatore (talk) 18:10, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Also there's a tiny but non-zero chance I placed it. I do use that in speech, and I've not checked the log for the origin. CYA. Lycurgus (talk) 19:10, 7 May 2015 (UTC)


The beginning of Maths is much earlier than Greeks such as Pythagores and Eulucid. This is nothing offending to Greek users, if some are offended this must be because of their mindset, there are some civilisations just predating them by time and thus by certain fields such as maths and biology, some can't accept this, but the article needs to be neutralised. Because the style now emphasizing the Greek contributors as primary who are in fact late contributors based on the works of those predating them and earlier civilisations than Greece; actually the "birthplace" or so called "creadle" is the quarto - China, Babylon, Egypt and India, later Greek mathemathics were based on Babylonian and Egyptian and later Arabic on Greek, all this is cited in the sources:

"Four nations Babylon, Egypt, India and China all developed their own special features and brilliant achievements in mathematics. Subsequently, Greek civilization built on the heritage of Babylon and Egypt... Babylonia has fared much better than Egypt in the history of mathematics. Babylonian scribes wrote their mathematics on clay tablets, Egyptians used papyrus. Both produced massive ammounts of written text, including works describing, performing, and explaining mathematical operations. For much of the twentieth century Babylonia and Egypt were perceived as the cradle of (modern) mathematics.... The Greek mathematicians Eudoxus, Thateles (d. 546 BC), Pythagoras (500 BC) were reported to have widely traveled in Egypt and Babylonia and learned much of their mathematics from these areas, some sources even credit Pythagoras with having travelled as far as India in search of knowledge, which could explain the parallels between Indian and Pythagorian philosophy and religion [1] (Oxford University Press) [2] --Evropariver (talk) 17:21, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Your edits are extremely problematic because you are trying to cram as many mentions that "Mathematics began in Egypt" and "the Greeks got all their math in Egypt", by cherry picking sources and repeating over and over. True, ancient Egyptian mathematics did influence ancient Greek mathematics, but the influence was limited. Egyptian mathematics was very simple, with only a 2-3 mathematical papyri surviving to the present day. Ancient Greek mathematics, while in its earliest stages influenced by Egypt, far surpassed Egyptian mathematics. The mathematical proof, the backbone of modern mathematics, was developed in Greece. The Pythagoreans were the to study mathematics as a subject on its own right, because of its intrinsic interest. All theose that came before them used mathematics to build stuff and for farming, etc..., but did not pursue mathematics as topic in its own right. For a more complete description of the subject, I recommend Carl Boyer's "A History of Mathematics". I also strongly object how you keep trying to cram the same thing over and over in the lede of the article, in order to ensure maximum visibility for your POV. Athenean (talk) 17:48, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
You dislike the inclusion of Egypt, but this is understandable when you have a certain nationality, however Egypt is very prominent(probably most) civilization and must not be excluded in a field where it is considered by most sources the CRADLE of mathematics both by contemporaries like Aristotle and present-day writers of Oxford university for example. Now the article is totally biased and problematic in my eyes.

All prominent Greek mathematician got their knowledge from Egypt, evidently studied in Egypt. Pythagoras theorem, etc all is derived from Egypt, it was much more than you are saying, including massive amount of written text as Oxford is saying. if you find a source claiming that Greece achieved more in mathematics than Egypt I will stop editing the article, I found a source claiming the opposite. I cite my statements from this [3].--Evropariver (talk) 19:08, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Did you even read what I wrote above? Personal attacks are very poor arguments, and repeating yourself over and over is not very convincing. You are misunderstanding everything, both what I write and what your own sources write. Athenean (talk) 19:10, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

You actually do not use any sources, damage or use mine as your own falsification, as you did in Biology article and continue with manipulative claims even in the discussion for personal attacks, I would better rarely discuss with you. --Evropariver (talk) 19:28, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

It would help if you actually knew a little about mathematics and biology and the other subjects you are pushing your POV on. Greek mathematics is famous for many contributions, including the mathematical proof (arguably the most significant development in the history of mathematics), the method of exhaustion (direct precursor to calculus), conic sections, etc... I encourage you to learn a little about these topics before coming back here. You may learn that much of modern mathematics was actually developed by ancient Greek mathematicians. This is in contrast to Egyptian mathematics, which was not very advanced, and is mostly just famous for being old). True, it is old, but that's about it. The entirety of what's left of Egyptian mathematics consists of only three papyri containing little more than simple geometric formulas (e.g. calculating the area of a pyramidal frustum. So you can find a lot of sources filled with superlative generalizations of the type "Egyptian mathematics is incredibly old bla bla bla", "Egypt is the cradle of mathematics bla bla bla", but not much more than that. And you can try to fill the article with such superlatives, but not much more than that, because surprise, there isn'y much more than that to be said. And unlike you, I try to assume good faith (as hard as it is in your case), because I could easily infer that your anti-Greek obsession could be driven by the fact that you are from a neighboring country with a much less interesting and much shorter history, with far fewer contributions to human civilization (to put it mildly), but I don't. Athenean (talk) 20:23, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't say anything against Greek mathematics, but against the way some users modified the article, like it has been the only and most important of all. Neither Ancient Egyptian, nor Greek is the same as modern mathematics, both are part of the past and have to be mentioned as such in the intro. I can't say which of both is more significant, but I am sure that those predating the Greek had practiced earlier most of what was practiced in Greek mathematics. What clearly is a fact as you mentioned is that one of the two is older which taught the newer. The Babylonian mathematics(1830-1531 BC, one sample even dating to 7289 BC featuring an approximation of the square root of 2 in four sexagesimal figures so far in the past) had quadratic equation and cubic equations, geometry, algebra and the Pythagorean theorem long before Pythagoras was alive and Greek mathematics(from just 600 BC, whose knowledge was achieved mostly through prominent scholars studying in Egypt or Babylonia as I cited), so major things come from there, you can not disregard that or regard it to Greece. So you are saying that all this should be excluded and the whole article should be concentrated on Greek mathematics, which is nothing but a bias, see the policy on neutrality/ I shall not have limited views neither the article should be limited only to Greece as you want, that would be ridiculous, not this not the Biology article, just because of your limited regards to the global contribution of many civilisations to certain sciences, emphasizing only Greece which is a very late civilisation.--Evropariver (talk) 21:00, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Anything else besides the usual rants and false accusations and deliberate misconstructions of my position? Your above post is nothing but a straw man filled with insinuations and personal attacks. It is quite apparent you simply pretend not to listen to what I am saying, which means interacting with you is a total waste of time. Athenean (talk) 21:17, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Standard deviation clarification[edit]

what is difference between elobrate between STDEV, STDEVA, STDEVP and STDEVPA in microsoft excel — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trmathan (talkcontribs) 12:13, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

This talk page exists for discussing edits to Wikipedia's Mathematics article. It is not a help desk for general mathematical or statistical questions. For those, try Wikipedia:Reference desk/Mathematics.
But your question is actually better answered by searching the wider Internet for Excel-specific help. For example, a Google search for "stdev excel function" led me to this page, which explains that stdev is the sample standard deviation (descriptive statistics) and stdevp is a kind of population standard deviation (inferential). Mgnbar (talk) 13:29, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done -- Google-search is truly amazing, often coming to Wikipedia. -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 02:43, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

New NEWS today, for future editing[edit]

Amazing kid who talked at two months; hitting the news a lot today.

Headline-1: Teenagers’ maths theorem could pave way for interstellar travel

QUOTE: "Xuming Liang and Ivan Zelich, both 17, corresponded through an online maths forum when they realised they were both working on the same problem. It is now said the result of their collaboration may change the face of mathematics forever." -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 06:24, 6 November 2015 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for future editing. This kid deserves his own Wikipedia page, sooner or later.

Headline-2: Meet the schoolboy genius who began speaking at TWO MONTHS of age and developed a maths theorem that calculates problems faster than a computer

QUOTE: "A Brisbane teen has developed a theorem experts say has changed maths; Ivan Zelich's findings will be crucial to our knowledge of the universe; When applied, the maths theorem calculates answers faster than a computer; Ivan, 17, has an IQ of 180 and said his first words at just two months of age; He was offered a place at university at 14, but chose to stay at school; He says school was in the way of his research, will soon sit his final exams." -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 06:28, 6 November 2015 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for additional future editing.

Headline-3: Schoolboy genius stuns academics with maths theory that calculates answers faster than computer

QUOTE: "A teenager has stunned academics by developing a maths theory which solves problems FASTER than a computer .

Figures boffins say that the theory has changed maths, and could help our understanding of the universe.

Ivan Zelich, who is just 17, is believed to have an IQ of 180, and has always been ahead of his age.

The Brisbane, Australia native stunned his parents when he started speaking at the age of two months.

And now working with a San Diego teen, he has developed the groundbreaking Liang Zelich Theorem." -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 06:34, 6 November 2015 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for additional future editing. Also, if this goes anywhere, these two teens each deserve a Wikipedia page!

There are certainly many news articles covering this. The paper itself seems not to be published. Most of its bibliographic entries are pre-prints and blog posts, rather than articles published in reputable journals. (The content seems to be very classical Euclidean or projective geometry of cubics.) Coverage in Wikipedia seems premature to me.
This talk page is for discussing edits to the Wikipedia article Mathematics, not for planning other articles about mathematics. To talk to the wider community about that kind of thing, see Wikipedia:Wikiproject Mathematics. Mgnbar (talk) 12:25, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
BOTTOM LINE: We can wait and see. -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 14:55, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Empirical nature of mathematics[edit]

The quote "The role of empirical experimentation and observation is negligible in mathematics, compared to natural sciences such as psychology, biology, or physics", is not universally accepted. There should probable be some discussion or reference to the various philosophies of mathematics, including ones that include empirical, quasi-empirical, and new empirical view.--user:, 21:24, 10 November 2015‎

When asked how he came upon his theorems, Gauss replied "... durch planmässiges Tattonieren. (... through systematic, palpable experimentation.)" as quoted in A L Mackay, Dictionary of Scientific Quotations (London 1994) --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 03:29, 11 November 2015 (UTC)