Talk:Melania Trump

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First to Speak English as a Second Language?[edit]

I thought Hannah Van Buren, like her husband, had Dutch as her mother tongue. Can someone verify this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:53, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

This doesn't matter here because she died before her husband became President. She wasn't a FLOTUS. --Klaus Frisch (talk) 22:57, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Very doubtful that English is Melania's second language. If it's known fact that English is her second language, the claim needs a clear authoritative source. Otherwise, the claim needs to be reworded to factual, such as "the first to not speak English as her first language." (talk) 15:18, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

As suspected, English was not her second language. According to the article in Marie Claire, "English is not Melania's first language. In fact, it's actually her fifth". I'll clean up the text. (talk) 22:38, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
No, I won't correct the text. Someone has taken it upon him/herself to lock it, so the inaccuracy that English is Melania's second language is enshrined in the article until someone with access takes the trouble to change it. What the goal is of freezing in inaccuracies is beyond me, folks. (talk) 22:48, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
I'm going to change it to "the first for whom English is not her first language". --MelanieN (talk) 03:42, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
Well done. Thanks. (talk) 01:15, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Requests to cover "birtherism"[edit]

Nice article here on the background: — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 09:50, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Can someone add in a section covering Melania Trump's birther and racist views of Obama.

Includes interview with Joy Behar in 2011??

This is clearly quite important historically, given that she has not spoken out on other occasions.

It shows she has not been apolitical.

So why is this not in the profile?? Is there a reason that this has not been included on the profile, is it too controversial for Wikipedia, or are there special rules for First Ladies? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:38, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Plenty of sources and video, and worth compiling for historical context. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:33, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

This was extensively discussed in June 2017, see Talk:Melania Trump/Archive 5#That the First Lady of the United States took to the public stage to promote birther conspiracies is notable enough for inclusion. There was no formal consensus about whether to include it in the article. The discussion kind of wound down, with four in favor of including it and five opposed. --MelanieN (talk) 19:40, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

That is ridiculous, who were the four versus the five. It is clearly a major element in her profile, when she was very political. Compare and contrast with Rosalyn Carter profiles - she sat in Carter cabinet meetings, and that is important historically.

Would you decide to leave out the battle of Stalingrad in a World War II profile, on the same basis. That is not rigiorous enough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:25, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Birther comments about Obama....needs to be added into the political section, at some point, when this page becomes fair and balanced at some stage in the future. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:35, 4 August 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:57, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Can someone add in a section on the history of Birtherism, why it happened, set in context.

Then can someone try and work out why Melania Trump agreed to get involved supporting Birtherism in public statements.

Is there some connection in her family history that would explain it, etc etc. Is there a history of racism in her family background in Slovenia?

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:55, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

No and no. This 2011 story was abundantly discussed at Talk:Melania Trump/Archive 5#That the First Lady of the United States took to the public stage to promote birther conspiracies is notable enough for inclusion. Editors found no consensus to include Melania Trump's comments during the Joy Behar interview. No further cases of "birtherism" or alleged racism were reported in WP:RS. — JFG talk 03:38, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
This has come up three times in the past two weeks. Is there some off-wiki site urging people to do this? --MelanieN (talk) 03:45, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
I doubt it. Could be some fringe blog or forum, no idea where to look. Or probably just the tabloid press clickbaiting away… — JFG talk 07:19, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
@MelanieN: And it goes on… Perhaps these reddit threads? [1][2]JFG talk 14:02, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Has Melania Trump ever retracted her racist birther views? If not, why not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:52, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

In addition, Jeff Flake has spoken out about Melania and Donald Trump, for their racist birther views.

Can someone also compare and contrast Melania Trump's racist birther comments, against events in Charlotsville? Any time that First Ladies get involved in politics - what ever you think about it - negative or positive - either birther comments, or condeming violence, worth mention in persons profile. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:31, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

I know whoever controls this page will not let any mention of Melania Trump's racist birther comments will not let it be included in her profile just yet, but for historical purposes the fact that she is now making comments about bigotry needs to be included.

Plus how does "hate in your hearts" compare to racist birther comments? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:58, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

I think it is clear that this wiki page needs to be more balanced.

It is always interesting to see when First Ladies have got involved politically.

For example, when Rosalyn Carter insisted on sitting in on President Carter's Full Cabinet Meetings - something that we look back at today, as quite odd.

The same is true for Hillary Clinton - she was involved in trying to craft a Healthcare Law during the Presidency of Bill Clinton.

So, I think that there has to be a view that given First Lady Melania Trump was involved in the birther movement, it is worth adding into her profile.

I will accept that whilst the page is controlled by Melania Trump fans at the moment - but in the long run, for historical purposes, the birther comments will make it onto the main page for Melania Trump - under a controversy section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:24, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Dear IP87, nobody "controls" any page on Wikipedia, see WP:OWN and WP:BOLD. Regarding your particular request, as noted above, this issue has been debated by many editors, arguing both for and against inclusion, see Talk:Melania Trump/Archive 5#That the First Lady of the United States took to the public stage to promote birther conspiracies is notable enough for inclusion. There was no consensus that this single utterance in a 2011 entertainment show bears any significance towards the Trump presidency. If you think that consensus may have changed, and this should now be considered more significant, please open an WP:RfC to request input from the wider Wikipedian community. Thanks for your attention. — JFG talk 14:26, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Can someone add in some more background about the leading figures in the Birther movement- Joe Arpaio, Orly Taitz, Melania Trump, President Trump etc.

I am from UK, and we are trying to work out how the birther movement started.

I guess the main question, relating Melania Trump is, why did she go on national television and push the "racist birther" conspiracies about President Obama?

Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona has recently criticized Melania and Donald Trump for their role in the birther movement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:14, 31 August 2017 (UTC) ────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Forget about Reddit, IP's, etc. -- this needs to be decided on the merits. I have looked at the archived discussion of this issue, and I see no consensus to exclude. I see heavy-handed dismissal of lots of RS coverage by less than a handful of editors. When I read the current article and I see nonsense like "Donald and Melania have never had a disagreement" and other similar clearly less noteworthy tidbits. The arguments against a brief mention of this are straw men. As if no person would ever disagree with his or her husband? As if a one-time hate speech is AOK because, why? We are obligated to portray the subject as RS describe her, and this is a little detail that gives profile to her actions and character. And please, if anyone replies to me, do not try to say that an objective simple recounting of her action is some kind of smear on her. It simply portrays how she conducted herself in a certain situation. And that's what bio's are all about -- showing the profile of the subject. SPECIFICO talk 15:25, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

President Trump now removing racist birther references...

This shows it is even more important to show that Melania Trump was also one of the key birthers along with President Trump. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

This site is not going to allow anything critical of Melania Trump, including her racist birther views.

Can people suggest where else this information should be posted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:39, 21 September 2017 (UTC)


It might be good to find a photo of her before her facial surgery; I believe her nose and some other features were significantly changed.

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 21:03, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

@Septegram: The photograph will have to be suitable for Commons, as a photograph of a person showing a non-notable facial surgery probably isn't fair use. In fact I was not even aware that it was confirmed she had facial surgery. --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 14:52, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
I know of no evidence for this claim and could find none just now in a search. And it would be irrelevant even if true. If we have acceptably licensed photos of her in her younger days, of course we can use them, but this unproven claim (or should I say rumor) of facial surgery should not be mentioned. --MelanieN (talk) 17:21, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Bojan Pozar: Melania Trump. The Inside Story. Ljubljana 2016, p. 234: "Shortly after she met Donald Trump she had several plastic surgeries, beginning to noticeably alter her face and body." --Klaus Frisch (talk) 07:28, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── One trivial mention seems undue to give it a large amount of the article, and it also doesn't seem notable enough for a photographic comparison under fair use. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 09:09, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

I saw a photo of her pre-cosmetic surgery, and the difference was pretty remarkable. However, I have no idea where to find the image again, let alone one that was not in copyright. I still think it would be a valuable addition to the page, but don't really have the time / energy to pursue it right now.
*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 18:16, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
OK, I couldn't resist doing a bit of looking. This article mentions "rumors" only, so it might be harder to get a verified photo than I thought (especially one that could be used on Wikipedia). Oh, well...
*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 18:20, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
That is a tabloid isn't it? I think the book written by Bojan Pozar is a better source. We must still consider whether it is WP:UNDUE or not to include this, and we must verify exactly when she had the surgery if we include images. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 18:50, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
We have no idea whether Bojan Pozar is a reliable source or a scandal-monger. Both kinds of people write books. Without significant coverage by Reliable Sources we have no business even talking about this. --MelanieN (talk) 18:55, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
We can absolutely talk about it on the Talk page, even if it's just to determine whether it's notable and/or the challenges of finding a reliable source. I don't know if the Express is a tabloid or otherwise disreputable or not, frankly. It's just the first link I found, and it was pretty cautious about drawing conclusions (which could be a sign of a reputable, cautious publication, or the sign of a cautious law department that's tired of being sued).
*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 17:40, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
Turns out that Wikipedia specifically includes the Express in its list of tabloid sources to be used with extreme caution. So, yeah, I wouldn't use that in an actual article.
*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 18:26, 21 September 2017 (UTC)


I agree with what Emir said above. But I think that this Daily Mail article with many impressive pictures of young Melanija, most of them from her first shooting with Stane Jerko (scroll down!), should be linked one way or another. --Klaus Frisch (talk) 20:05, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
I think that's a good suggestion and I have added it to the article as a reference. --MelanieN (talk) 18:19, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 September 2017[edit]

[Large block of text not related to subject removed.] Jaydenl (talk) 19:53, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. SparklingPessimist Scream at me! 19:56, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 October 2017[edit]

The term "Assumed office" is incorrect. Melanie Trump does not hold an office, she has a "role" as First Lady. See Michelle Obama's entry, it shows she had a "role." Change "Assumed office" to "Assumed Role" Inkyhuntsville (talk) 14:05, 15 October 2017 (UTC) Inkyhuntsville (talk) 14:02, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Done DRAGON BOOSTER 15:03, 15 October 2017 (UTC)