Talk:Meme

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January 29, 2005 Peer review Reviewed
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Huxley[edit]

A recent edit (diff) by Mountain9 added the following text (the following uses straight quotes as recommended by MOS:CURLY):

Although Dawkins invented the term 'meme' and developed meme theory, the possibility that ideas were subject to the same pressures of evolution as were biological attributes was discussed in Darwin's time. T. H. Huxley claimed that 'The struggle for existence holds as much in the intellectual as in the physical world. A theory is a species of thinking, and its right to exist is coextensive with its power of resisting extinction by its rivals.'[1]

Google offers this with what I think is the text of the reference.

The edit is not suitable for Wikipedia due to WP:NOR (no original research). It's a subtle point that takes time to digest, but the basic problem is that articles would be an unreliable mess if editors (that is, anyone on the internet) could quote some text from a work and then state that the text has some significance. Wikipedia requires a reliable secondary source to make a connection between what Huxley wrote and the topic of this article. Perhaps someone with a lot of knowledge of Huxley (hi Macdonald-ross!) would agree that Huxley was referring to the same concept as covered by memes, but that would not matter unless the opinion was published in a reliable source. I'll leave the edit for now, but it has to be removed unless a secondary source is available. Johnuniq (talk) 00:17, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to explain how I should be using reliable secondary sources. I had thought that Huxley’s use of the well known phrase ‘struggle for existence’ which he took from Darwin’s ‘Origin of Species’ makes it clear that Huxley was comparing competition between ideas and competition between species and that it did not need a reliable secondary source to understand or interpret Huxley’s sentence. Its significance to the meme page is that while Dawkins created the word ‘meme’, it is not correct to imply that Dawkins was the first person to have the idea that competitive selective processes might apply as much to ideas as to biological evolution. The reference is to Huxley’s original publication. The Google reference is from ‘Darwinalia’ – a re-publication by Huxley of matters relating to Darwin.
Would the following be a suitable incorporation of a reliable secondary source?
Although Dawkins invented the term ‘meme’ and developed meme theory, the psychologist Rosalind Ridley has argued that the possibility that ideas were subject to the same pressures of evolution as were biological attributes has been discussed since Darwin’s time[2]; for example, T. H. Huxley claimed that ‘The struggle for existence holds as much in the intellectual as in the physical world. A theory is a species of thinking, and its right to exist is coextensive with its power of resisting extinction by its rivals'[3].
Mountain9 (talk) 16:21, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply but I won't have an opportunity to think about this for a while. There's no rush. Johnuniq (talk) 23:01, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Huxley, T. H. "The coming of age of 'The origin of species'". (1880) Science. 1, 15-17. 
  2. ^ Ridley, Rosalind (2016). Peter Pan and the Mind of J M Barrie. Cambridge Scholars Publishing. p. 91. ISBN 978-1-4438-9107-3. 
  3. ^ Huxley, T H (1880). "The Coming of Age of 'The origin of Species'". Science. 1: 15. 

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2016[edit]

RileyDude (talk) 05:16, 11 October 2016 (UTC) A meme (/ˈmiːm/ meem)[1] is "an idea, behavior, or style that spreads from person to person within a culture".[2] A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols, or practices that can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals, or other imitable phenomena with a mimicked theme. Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogs to genes in that they self-replicate, mutate, and respond to selective pressures.[3]

Proponents theorize that memes are a viral phenomenon that may evolve by natural selection in a manner analogous to that of biological evolution. Memes do this through the processes of variation, mutation, competition, and inheritance, each of which influences a meme's reproductive success. Memes spread through the behavior that they generate in their hosts. Memes that propagate less prolifically may become extinct, while others may survive, spread, and (for better or for worse) mutate. Memes that replicate most effectively enjoy more success and some may replicate effectively even when they prove to be detrimental to the welfare of their hosts.[4]

A field of study called memetics[5] arose in the 1990s to explore the concepts and transmission of memes in terms of an evolutionary model. Criticism from a variety of fronts has challenged the notion that academic study can examine memes empirically. However, developments in neuroimaging may make the empirical study possible.[6] Some commentators in the social sciences question the idea that one can meaningfully categorize culture in terms of discrete units, and are especially critical of the biological nature of the theory's underpinnings.[7] Others have argued that this use of the term is the result of a misunderstanding of the original proposal.[8]

The word meme originated with Richard Dawkins' 1976 book The Selfish Gene. Dawkins's own position is somewhat ambiguous: he welcomed N. K. Humphrey's suggestion that "memes should be considered as living structures, not just metaphorically"[9] and proposed to regard memes as "physically residing in the brain".[10] Later, he argued that his original intentions, presumably before his approval of Humphrey's opinion, had been simpler.[11] At the New Directors' Showcase 2013 in Cannes, Dawkins' opinion on memetics was deliberately ambiguous.[12]

X mark.svg Not done because there is nothing actually requested here. You simply copied and pasted the lead section to this talk page. I don't see any suggestion on what you are proposing to change. ~Amatulić (talk) 06:26, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Text based memes[edit]

A meme is a text based (Sometimes it does not need one) funny photo. It has a photo that people would recognize. The photo has names, such as: Bad Luck Brian, Doge, and Me Gusta [1]. It also sometimes has puns JJthewolfboy (talk) 14:15, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. JTP (talkcontribs) 14:34, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

AquaPigg's response[edit]

This page is great, hands down, includes detailed information and loads of stuff that I didn't know about memes, probably my favourite page on wikipedia, keep up the good work!

~ from AquaPigg (・∀・ )

Para 1 Dawkins[edit]

I have explicitly added Dawkins' name to Para 1, as coiner of the term, even though it is covered later under Origins, for two reasons: 1) since the coinage occurs in a particular book and can be ascribed to one individual, that should be mentioned in the opening section; 2) I linked to the article from an eBook reader while reading The Selfish Gene to confirm Dawkins' originating the term, was surprised by his name not being in the opening paras, and my ebook reader is not particularly friendly either to extensive scrolling or hyperlinks, a situation which must be not uncommon these days. BTW, I called it a "neologism" even though it has been in use for 40 years, as it is still not in very common usage, and was certainly a neologism when Dawkins coined it. D A Patriarche, BSc 06:50, 21 March 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by D A Patriarche (talkcontribs)

  1. ^ http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/popular