Talk:Mensa International/Archive 3

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Name[edit]

I've only glanced through the article but does any one know why MENSA is called MENSA? Is it anything to do with the Latin word for table?Algebra man 21:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Please feel free to read the article. Avt tor 05:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Young members[edit]

I've deleted that claim that a particular kid was one of only 30 members under the age of 10. It wasn't in the cited article, and it defies my own experience.

My own son joined Mensa at the age of 6, in 1992, with an IQ of 146. At the time, looking over the membership information we were provided, he was one of two youngsters in our town under the age of 10 in Mensa—and we live in a merely mid-size town in the Southeastern US. It seems likely to me that there are dozens, perhaps hundreds, of under-ten Mensans across the US alone, given the propensity of present-day parents to parade their progeny's perceived precocity. Unschool 02:14, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Meanings in various languages[edit]

I removed the meanings in other languages, as they are off-topic within this article:

  • Mensa is used colloquially in Spanish to mean "stupid", and the word menso (feminine: mensa) means "jerk" in certain parts of Latin America.
  • Mensa is the Italian word for cafeteria, as well as the German word for a canteen at a university or a school (both come from the original Latin meaning of table.)
  • Mens is Dutch and Afrikaans for human.
  • Mens is also the Swedish and Norwegian expression for menstruation.
  • In Galician and Catalan, mensa is similar to (and often confused with) pensa (imperative for think).

bogdan 18:24, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

No, they really aren't off topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.251.69.157 (talkcontribs) 00:18, 7 January 2007

Yes, they are off-topic. Wikipedia is not a dictionary. bogdan 00:32, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, it all started with the "stupid/jerk in Spanish" reference, the irony of which was very much on-topic ... unfortunately, it became a cruft-magnet for every editor who wanted to make an "original" contribution that would not be immediately challenged and reverted, the result of which was this smeggy dictionary list ... I even remember reformatting it as a table from a single paragraph a few months back, and a few more got added after that ... someone changed "slang" to "colloquially", beau coup other "cosmetic" edits to the section ... it started out well, but it soured with each addition.
The fact that no one has reverted your deletion is a sign that there is a consensus that the article is indeed Better without it ... I thought about restoring the first one (after all, it is "ironic"), but I'll leave that decision up to you ... maybe as a second sentence in the same bullet as the Latin, but not as a sub-bulleted item, as if it were an invitation to add to a list of examples ... then watch the page and revert additions based on this Talk page discussion ... No More Foreign Language Examples!72.75.85.159 (talk · contribs) 01:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

::: I remember from some time back reading a flippant ad (in Private Eye probably) for a rival organisation called Densa. Unfortunately I can't remember what the membership criteria were. But it provides a nice link with the colloquial Spanish.... --Zeisseng 20:10, 16 June 2007 (UTC) Sorry: a bit dense there. Should have read to the end of the page...--Zeisseng 20:12, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Spanish is hardly a "foreign language" in the US.

IQ Tests[edit]

IQ tests are only a qualifying criterion for membership in Mensa, not the defining purpose of the organization. IQ test links might (emphasis might) belong on a "list of online IQ tests" which in turn might be linked from an article about IQ tests, but that doesn't belong on the Mensa page itself. Mensa is (somewhat) defined by the notion of IQ, not the other way around. As such, and as consistent with practice by past editors, I will remove a new link to an IQ test. Avt tor 13:06, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Heh. While I was on the Talk page, another editor was actually removing the link. Avt tor 13:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Lifetime-membership[edit]

I just added that the life-memberships are generally non-transferrable. Goofy legalese, I'm sure. I've lived in five countries, each of which has a Mensa chapter. If I start a 2007 membership in Austria, and move to Slovakia, Mensa.sk will recognise me for the remainder of the year; I would however, have to buy a Mensa.sk membership for 2008 to be included then. Mensa.sk will not, however, recognise a lifetime Mensa.at membership, as it is Mensa.sk which has to cover it's own financial arse... paying for brochures, leaflets, magazines, etc. And just think, I'll be moving to Japan in March... samwaltz 13:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

It could be better worded. When I see "non-transferrable", I think of person-to-person transfers, not country-to-country transfers by the same person. Jwolfe 13:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
D'oh! ... I think that I may have contributed the "Life Membership" sentence several months ago, so I took a crack at rewording the "non-transferrable" part. --72.75.126.37 17:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I removed the details about how much it costs for a Life Membership, because it appears to vary by national group. In the U.S., it's a sliding scale based on age. Jwolfe 20:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Good call ... I purchased mine in 1988 (just got my 25-year member certificate a few weeks ago! :-) and I haven't attended any of the functions in over a decade, so I really haven't paid any attention to changes in the annual dues or Life Membership price ... anywho, I was still a newbie at the time, but now I can see that it's just unsourced Original Research (i.e., fancruft) that I wouldn't even contemplate adding today. --72.75.126.37 21:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Mind Games[edit]

I was thinking about putting up a page or category: Mind Games (Mensa). Mind Games is Mensa.US's annual contest for best game of the year. More info is available here. What do you think? Is this article-worthy? I'd at least recommend a cat-tag for all qualifying games. samwaltz 07:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

The problem with that idea is that you assume any of the "qualifying games" will be WP:N and have articles ... remember, just because they were entered in a competition does not make them notable ... but worse than that, how much verifiable independent reliable source coverage has there been of the competition itself to meet WP:Notability?
Aside from the Mensa Bulletin, I've never encountered any reportage except that one year the winner was mentioned on NPR in a piece in the business segment about start-up companies, and a winner from a prior year was talking about balancing just-in-time production with seasonal demand so that he didn't have to warehouse surplus inventory ... no talk of the game itself, just problems manufacturing the game for sale to a niche market, i.e., the very small minority of the population with very high IQs ... no, I'd rank that category and article as Pretty Darn Low on the worthy scale. --72.75.126.37 13:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
My opinion in other categories is that (verifiable) award winners are notable, nominations are not, in general. Avt tor 13:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm a goof. I just got through writing about 20% of the page, and realised that the page already exists. List of Mensa Select recipients. Ah well, I guess I'll be writing up a category page, anyway. samwaltz 16:16, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

List of Mensa Select recipients[edit]

I have added a "{{prod}}" template to the article List of Mensa Select recipients, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, or, if you disagree with the notice, discuss the issues at its talk page. Removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, but the article may still be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached, or if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria. —72.75.126.37 (talk · contribs) 18:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Are you arguing that American Mensa isn't part of Mensa International, that the information on the page doesn't agree with the provided external link, or that Mensa doesn't actually care about intellectual games, even though they offer an award for such? Avt tor 18:37, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm arguing that a few dozen people playing board games for a 48 hour marathon once a year is not WP:N for an article, regardless of who they are ... and I say this as a "judge" from one over ten years ago when I was still an active participant. (For a few years I was on the national committee that approved local group by-laws, and Ombudsman for one of the largest local groups in the American Mensa; I'm still a paid member after 25 years, but I just don't attend functions any longer for reasons that are not a topic for conversation.) --72.75.126.37 19:37, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Alternative Admissions?[edit]

I was once approached by a member of Mensa in the USA––or someone purporting to be a member––who had been a coworker of mine and told that there are in fact other ways of gaining admission to Mensa than by scoring in the 98th percentile on the usual IQ tests. This individual indicated that Mensa actually recognizes that there are many highly intelligent persons who do not test well, due to factors such as test anxiety and attention deficit. He stated that exceptions are therefore made to the usual requirement, on occasion, and that it is possible to become a member of Mensa based upon demonstrated intellectual achievements of a high level and favorable recommendations from a sufficient number of members. He further indicated that this was strictly on the QT. This struck me as being unlikely. I had no interest in joining in any case. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.167.48.61 (talk) 16:43, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

First to answer your question: Mensa isn't a secret society and would not have the ability to do anything "on the QT". There are other ways of proving intelligence other than the Stanford-Binet test that Mensa chapters proctor for potential new members from time to time; often the alternative methods of proof (typically other very generic standardized tests, like the old SATs) are listed on the national organization's web site, and at any rate you can contact the national organization and they can tell you what methods they'll accept. Second, Mensa is basically a social organization; I joined because I like the people who are members; if you don't like the people suggesting that you join, you probably shoudn't. Third, the talk page is only for discussion of the Wikipedia page; it isn't a forum for discussing the subject matter, so let's not have an extended discussion here. Avt tor 17:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
The individual in question stated that there was a "back door" method of getting into Mensa, or some chapter thereof, that used criteria other than standardized test scores. I presume this is false, but thought it worth mentioning just in case. "If you don't like the people suggesting that you join, you probably shoudn't." Agreed. The Mensans I have met (and known to be such) have been a mixed bag, but several have had an elitist streak that I don't care for. I can, however, relate to the need to socialize with others who have strong intellectual interests and aren't afraid to think. End of discussion. 66.167.48.61 19:03, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

American Mensa uses standardized tests only (I am a former proctor) and what tests are accepted are clearly posted on their web site: http://www.us.mensa.org/Content/AML/NavigationMenu/Join/SubmitTestScores/QualifyingTestScores/QualifyingScores.htm 66.23.230.122 17:58, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


Section: Members of Mensa[edit]

Do we have any clear guidelines as to what fits in the section "Members of Mensa"? After the recent entry "Another young member is Mikhail, aged three years, who recently appeared on Channel 4's Child Genius", I'm concerned that it might balloon into a list again. Alternatively, if we changed the header to "Demographics of Mensa", I presume that random wikipedia editors would be less inclined to include personal names; the term "members" focuses on indivuals, whereas "demographics" focuses on the group/statistics. samwaltz 14:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I would go with "Demographics of Mensa members", but otherwise, I agree with what you say. I wouldn't strongly object to your proposed new header, either. We don't need another unverified and unverifiable list of purported members. Jwolfe 18:19, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Good call. I also agree with you and like the way you've edited this. Adding any names to that section at all would be a slipperly slope, as editors would just want to start adding people. DanielEng 20:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


I think that this link should be deleted as your are listing Americans that are not currently membes of Mensa as I verified in the American Mensa directory. Because some one claims something on their page -- does not make it true -- and in several cases it is verified to be false. 66.23.231.219 18:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

  • a) There is no one mentioned in the Demographics section, and has not been for quite some time.
  • b) When there was, a number of the people listed were/are not United States citizens, and would not show up in the American Mensa bulletin.

[edit]

I just noticed that the previous edit to the main page (the one by IP 70.168.213.50 ) removed the logo from the page; it looks like s/he's removed it from the source file, too. Could someone upload a new one, and link it back in to the page? It's near midnight, and I need to get some sleep. samwaltz 22:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC) The logo was deleted. The reason given was "(no source no tag)". : http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/delete&page=Image:Mensa-logo.jpg samwaltz 22:57, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Done. This is the cleanest logo I could find. Unfortunately, it's a bit small for my tastes. If anyone happens to have access to a larger one, could you please upload it? Cheers, samwaltz 09:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)