Talk:Metaphysical naturalism

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Section Name?[edit]

Anyone have a better name for the subsection "Ancient Period"? Sanjat312, 06:15, 12 December 2006‎ (UTC)

I changed the diambiguation page. As such I think both articles are wrong headed. I suggest leading out the arguments page until someone reads something written by someone with some qualifications ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:01, 7 January 2007‎ (UTC)

Ricard Carrier has written this entry AND recommended his book/work in it! I think it needs to be rewrtten for thsi reason alone! Also, I don't think the arguments against section is neutral: most end in claims that the argument is incorrect, surely there is some academic disagreement as to whether e.g. the existence of qualia undermines naturalism? And why demand scientific evidence for supernatural causes, surely this is impossible as what was considered supernatural would then be natural? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:59, 12 January 2007‎ (UTC)

Evolution of definition[edit]

I didn't find Reference Desk Humanities or Science to be appropriate places for this question, although this comment does not suggest a precise change, sorry about that; but it pertains to this article.

When verifying various definitions (including Webster 1913 and this article's), I see the use of belief, doctrine and denial, to describe the naturalist point of view. Which made me question if there has ever been evolution of the definition over time in certain sources.

I may be mistaken, but describing naturalism as a doctrine or belief, reminds me the common fallacy presented to athiests: "how can you prove that a diety doesn't exist?", when of course, athiests respond that it's simply non-belief in a diety, because of the lack of evidence; we cannot produce non-evidence, but acknowledge the observable.

Similarily, as someone who considers to hold a naturalist view, I don't find that faith is required to hold this view, which would only be altered if evidence of non-physical, non-naturalistic processes at work were demonstrated. Therefore, I'm not convinced that belief or doctrine are technically adequate terms to define naturalism.

If the definition indeed evolved in this direction in the work of some authors (a point of view, acknowlegement, or assertion, versus a belief or doctrine), we probably should have mention of this in the article, and possibly even alter the definition in the lead? But do such works even exist making the distinction? Thanks, (talk) 15:12, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

This article is about metaphysical naturalism, not just 'naturalism'. Metaphysical Naturalism is indeed a positive belief about the way reality actually is. That's part of the whole point of the term 'Metaphysical Naturalism'. There are positive arguments to be made in favor of the non-existence of a god and the claim that metaphysical naturalism is probably true. If the article currently doesn't include reference to these arguments, I suggest it should. Though I don't think 'doctrine' is the right word. BrianPansky (talk) 04:24, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Pre-Modern Philosophy[edit]

I added this section, and I would prefer it to stay up. If there is something needing modification, or attention, please do assert it. But if metaphysical naturalism is true, it ought to be able to better other metaphysical explanations, such as realism, and other things cited in the subsection I added. (talk) 22:02, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Pre-Modern Philosophy Section is seriously flawed[edit]

This section reads like an advertisement for someone trying to sell Ed Feser's book. Despite the fact that Feser is arguing for a classical position in philosophy which is not held by the majority of philosophers, it reads as though he personally has concluded and won the argument [1]. Another huge problem is that it reads as though classical philosophy offers the only variants of realism and that naturalism is tied to either nominalism or eleminative materialism. Neither one of these claims is true. There are many more variants of realism that are either naturalistic or compatible with naturalism. There are also other options for the naturalist besides eleminativism or nominalism.

If this section stays up on the article, then it needs to be completely rewritten. This rewritting needs to include the fact that (1) the naturalist position is taken by the majority of philosophers to be best explanation for these things (probably citing David Chalmer's massive survey "What Do Philosophers Believe?" that outlines this which I referenced above), (2) making it not a biased advertisement for Feser's book (don't make it about Feser and do not treat it as though his popular level book written from his side is the end of the discussion), and (3) citing a list of the schools of philosophy that are taken as better answers by professional philosophers.

Eightbitlegend (talk) 15:19, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Those suggestions sound pretty good. Also I'm not sure if this one book is noteworthy, or whether it belongs on this page. There are countless books that could be cited as claiming to refute naturalism (they argue for a supernatural god or powers or spirits). BrianPansky (talk) 04:09, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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  1. ^