Talk:Midwestern United States

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Hatched areas on map[edit]

US map-Midwest.PNG

Why doesn't the current SVG map include hatched areas like this one? Also, there were a couple people at the talk page of that file a while ago who mentioned that parts of Oklahoma and/or Texas may be considered Midwestern to an as well, so I would suggest that the hatched states be reinstated plus some parts of OK and TX. Dustin (talk) 05:48, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

The Midwest is made up of 12 different states Iowa, South Dakota, North Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan. The Midwest has many lakes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.135.193.210 (talk) 22:31, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Oklahoma and Texas are not culturally midwestern and do not belong. They are southern states. Kryan74 (talk) 03:33, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Huh, I don't remember starting this thread... In any case, culture is one thing that I won't go into, but you saying "They are southern states", especially Oklahoma, is just your personal opinion. Geographically, Oklahoma is in the Central United States, with the mean location of all the points in Oklahoma being closer to the center point of the 48 states than to the southern border or even to the Gulf Coast. One last thing, please stop replying to expired discussions. You've done this multiple times, and you're lucky you ever received a response this time. Dustin (talk) 03:34, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Being in the center does not constitute being midwest. Midwest is a defined region, not a term for being in the middle. Texas and Oklahoma are culturally, historically and geographically southern states. The hatch marks would indicate incorrect data. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.182.74.68 (talk) 16:01, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

"Midwest" has many definitions[edit]

The article opens with a lead sentence that defines "Midwestern United States" specifically as a region defined by the census bureau and previously called by another name. Yet in fact, as the lead section goes on to mention, the term is a long-established one with many different definitions as to exactly what states are included. If the article is meant to only be about the census-bureau-defined region, then it needs to be retitled and the historical material moved to another article. If it is meant to be about the Midwest in general, the lead section needs to be rewritten (and, incidentally, should contain in the first paragraph a link to the country) and content that relates specifically to the Census Bureau definition should be explicitly marked as such.

I'm tagging this bit as NPOV in that it's not being neutral about which definition to lead with. --76.69.45.64 (talk) 23:35, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

This article isn't about "the Midwest"; per the lede sentence, it's about "one of the four geographic regions defined by the United States Census Bureau". 32.218.152.225 (talk) 16:24, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
Here, Here! Totally shocked by reading the lead of this article a few minutes back. It's pretty much inappropriate to link to it given the lead, where one might in a history topic. Forsooth! Where is the historic backdrop in this lead? The Ohio Country, the Revolutionaries inspired and motivated by Great Britain's deal with the Native Americans to block westward expansion; the Northwest Territory and the Louisiana Purchase and the post-war charge along the eastern migration trails to settle the near west—today's Midwest! Christ on a crutch, is there no editor involved on this topic with any sense of history and an understanding of carts come after horses? US Census be damned, cite US Postal and railroad practices, not some jumped up johnny come lately bureau with delusions of grandeur. Where and why pray tell has the project taken to so consistently denigrate pre-great society terminologies? The US Census Bureau as an authority should NEVER EVER be in the lead... just look at the awful terminologies they foist off on the country. At best these folks were C students with less than no clues to the ways of the world. These are a bunch of professional Near-do-wells making up classifications on a fancy form of government welfare... employees of a broken, bloated over-populated government agency. Bring back the history, and diminish the governmental overreach to it's appropriate mention in the Geography section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabartus (talkcontribs) 16:56, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Having the term Midwest as defined by the Census Bureau is nonsense. No one uses the term as defined that way, except the people at the CB. It makes as much sense as defining the Wikipedia New England article to include New York & New Jersey because some guy I know doesn't know the definition and uses the term wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:4011:800:0:0:0:0:24 (talk) 14:11, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Areas in the south of the US[edit]

Why are only areas in the north of the USa included in the "Midwest". Why are not states like Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi and Alabama included? They seem to be just as western as those included. --84.210.115.70 (talk) 19:46, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Maybe because there's no longitudinal logic to how regions are denoted. Dicklyon (talk) 01:07, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Stop this arbitrary nonsense of definition by a Census Bureau.[edit]

The U.S. has four main time zones. Those are to be used to define east, mideast, midwest, west. Period. Externet MB75.223.145.242 (talk) 01:02, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

You mean Eastern, Central, Mountain, and Pacific? Do you not realize that a lot of the midwest is in Eastern time? Dicklyon (talk) 01:06, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
I agree that "Midwest" is an outdated term, but I believe the Census Bureau continues to combine those 12 states into the region based on more than just their pure geographic location in the lower 48. Shared culture and history have helped define those states as that region since the days of the Northwest Territory. I also think it's perfectly fine to let states be in more than one region, a great example being Ohio, which I've seen mapped as the meeting place for the Midwest, Northeast, and Appalachia. Referring to a post above, that's why I also think it's OK for Minnesota to be both a "Great Lakes" state and a "Great Plains" state. Being in the middle of the country poses a challenge for regional definition when the only clearly defined boundary is Canada to the north. Frank12 (talk) 20:54, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

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Requested move 13 June 2017[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) TonyBallioni (talk) 01:46, 20 June 2017 (UTC)


Midwestern United StatesMidwestWP:COMMONNAME--this is actually called "the Midwest" but no one casually refers to this as "the Midwestern United States". Although it's maybe not quite as common as "New England" or "The South", this is a very common designation for a fairly well-defined area in the United States. Also note that Midwest redirects here. ―Justin (koavf)TCM 00:40, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Well South is ambiguous, primarily refers to a direction, which is why Southern United States obviously can't be titled South. 2602:306:3653:8440:10D6:49F6:C2C5:3F61 (talk) 20:13, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Opposed per AjaxSmack. This is more an instance of consistency with WP:PLACE and WP:NCCST over WP:COMMONNAME, similar to how US city names almost all follow the "city, state" format even if a city is the only one with a specific name. The exceptions to that title format are the select major cities that are generally not referenced with their respective state, like New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles, etc. --JonRidinger (talk) 14:17, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose I'm not sure Midwest should redirect here as numerous other regions around the world such as Mid-West Region, Ireland and Mid West (Western Australia) share similar names. Furthermore as noted the proposal is less precise and inconsistent with articles for other regions. AusLondonder (talk) 22:37, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose – Such a move would reduce clarity, and be inconsistent with other region articles. V2Blast (talk) 10:07, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Sources[edit]

There seem to be many "opinions" on this talk page but what anyone should be doing is looking to sources. So, I will start a list here, in the hopes that future discussions focus on sources not editor opinion. Please add to the list as you see fit. Alanscottwalker (talk) 17:08, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

'Jewish' included in discussion about immigration from countries. Suggestion[edit]

Shouldn't Jewish immigration be included in discussion of religions rather than dispersion of immigrants from individual countries? Thank you. Bobdog54 (talk) 01:55, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

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Role in Creation of Time Zones[edit]

The Finance section seems to overstate the results of a decision made here in 1883: In 1883, the standardized system of North American time zones was adopted by the general time convention of railway managers in Chicago. This gave the continent its uniform system for telling time. The entire continent? Feels like this conflicts with the history presented for the International Meridian Conference. Also seems a little superfluous to mention it here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whyamikeenan (talkcontribs) 23:27, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Good point-I dropped it. The city is a common locale for national meetings which are not part of Midwest history. Rjensen (talk) 00:31, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
Whether or not it belongs in this article is one thing - as a matter of history though, it did happen [1] [2] [3]. But it seems it was in this article because the Railroads made what the midwest is in the 1800s and that also had wider ramifications for the world beyond the midwest. Alanscottwalker (talk) 10:30, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
It is an important point, but This is not the place because it was a national convention of railroad leaders, most of them from the East Coast. They used Chicago as a convenient meeting place. It still is, though the heyday is gone. Cheap air flights make it just as easy to get to Orlando or Las Vegas as to Chicago, and they supposedly are more fun. Honolulu would be even more attractive, but it's really quite expensive in terms of airfare and travel time. Standard time zones didn't matter too much when you just had the Eastern and Central, but when you added in Mountain and West, and took notice of Alaska as well as Greenwich/London, a system suitable to the clockwork accuracy of timetables was needed. Rjensen (talk) 10:48, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
Well, speaking of Heyday this book goes on at length about the importance of the growth of railroads in the US Midwest, and how that impacted the world - after all, they were in Chicago and the Midwest because that is where the roads met and all lead - they still do, of course - so again the making of the Midwest. Sure, it's not the same in the 1800s, as today, for the Midwest or the rest of the world -- say, Britain, for example -- that does not mean it's not relevant history. Alanscottwalker (talk) 12:47, 23 March 2018 (UTC)