Talk:Military history of Ray, Iran

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Yes, this is a ridiculously long article. It began quite innocently, when I Googled to check something in the article Battle of Rayy, and found that in reality there had been more than one battle at or near Ray. I therefore decided to put together a little summary page, to encourage people with more expertise in the field to create articles on other battles (and sieges) at Ray. If I'd known just how many military actions there had been around Ray, I would probably not have started! The principal basis for the article is a rummage through the Cambridge History of Iran; as far as possible, everything has been checked against articles on relevant individuals in the Encyclopaedia of Islam (1st edition) and the Encyclopaedia Iranica, and against other sources found via Google.

To solve the length problem, my preference would be for people with a good grasp of Iranian history to write new articles on individual battles and campaigns, so that the relevant sections in this article can be trimmed to a bare minimum (as has been done with the "original" 811 CE battle). Another possibility would be to split the article into smaller chunks- but the natural division points are near the beginning (the Arab invasion) and near the end (the Mongol invasion). Any other suggestions? David Trochos (talk) 19:04, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

  • PS: Somebody just tried putting a Main Article link to this page from the History and Culture section of Ray, Iran. I've changed it to a See Also, because, dare I say it, I think somebody could and should create another article to balance this one, giving more details of the city's amazing cultural history. I'm too traumatised at the moment to attempt it... David Trochos (talk) 21:08, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
  • You've clearly done enough work to earn some artistic license, but might I suggest simply taking each of these sections and moving it to a stub immediately? Then create a WP:disambiguation page at Battle of Ray. Potatoswatter (talk) 02:01, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
    • What makes me reluctant to do that immediately is the problem of defining the "sections". I've just done a count, and by my reckoning this article refers to about 110 separate military incidents involving attempts to take control of Ray. The section divisions within the article are partly arbitrary, with narratives crossing the section boundaries. David Trochos (talk) 07:59, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Possibly a WP:navigational template could help tie many articles together as well. Potatoswatter (talk) 02:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
    • May be worth a shot; I'll give it a week or two and see what possibilities emerge. David Trochos (talk) 07:59, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


I think it would be better to rename the article to Military history of Ray, Iran. Any thoughts? --KoberTalk 06:23, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

That was a possibility I had considered, but I became uneasy about the possible consequences. At the moment the article says very little about the practicalities of Ray as a garrison town- if it turns out that there is a significant amount of information available from archaeology etc. on, for example, where within the walls troops were quartered, the article would have to get even bigger! David Trochos (talk) 07:14, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Military history of Ray, Iran is better than the current title. Alefbe (talk) 16:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Assuming some such move is made, would "Ray" or "Rayy" or "Rey" or "Shahr-e-Rey" be the preferred name of the city? I used "Ray" because the general article on the city used that spelling, and it was probably more apropriate than "Rey" to represent the pronunciation of the name a thousand years ago. Personally I consider the "Shahr" element in the modern name rather redundant, a slightly feeble attempt to remind people that this suburb of the capital was once great. David Trochos (talk) 18:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Ray is better. Rey is also fine (based on the current pronunciation). Shahr-e Rey is not appropriate (it is not common in English texts and not even in Persian texts about its history). Alefbe (talk) 21:32, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
OK, in that case, before we do anything I'll contact Megastrike14, who added Shahr to the title, and check that there are no overwhelming objections. David Trochos (talk) 18:49, 22 May 2009 (UTC)