Talk:Millennials

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Reliability of Article[edit]

Hi,

I would encourage each one of you on here to avoid generalized statements and opinion in this article. This article like all articles on Wikipedia needs to be supported with reliable secondary sources. The statement, "There are no precise dates when the generation starts and ends; most researchers and commentators use birth years ranging from the early 1980s to the early 2000s." in the lead is too general and has no supporting references. As a result, editors are changing the dates as they see fit, disagreeing with the date range given (cf. history log of article). The first citation in the lead points to an unreliable advertising / news site, considered inappropriate for Wikipedia. Editors are encouraged to use more reliable references.

--Hrbm14 (talk) 06:39, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

We should put the most extreme dates so that everyone knows the possible range. TheGamingMaverick (talk) 12:13, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Further Reading section[edit]

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The section currently reads:

Further reading[edit]

Espinoza, Chip; Mick Ukleja, Craig Rusch (2010). Managing the Millennials: Discover the Core Competencies for Managing Today's Workforce. Hoboken, NJ: Wiley. p. 172. ISBN 978-0-470-56393-9. Espinoza, Chip (2012). Millennial Integration: Challenges Millennials Face in the Workplace and What They Can Do About Them. Yellow Springs. OH: Antioch University and OhioLINK. p. 151. Stephanie F. Gardner (August 15, 2006). "Preparing for the Nexters". American Journal of Pharmaceutical Education 70 (4): 87. doi:10.5688/aj700487. PMC 1636975. PMID 17136206. "born between 1983 and 1994" Furlong, Andy.Youth Studies: An Introduction. New York, NY: Routlege, 2013. Burstein, David (2013). Fast Future: How the Millennial Generation is Shaping Our World. Boston, MA: Beacon Press. Millennials hit 30: It's the economy, not us (http://www.nbcnews.com/business/millennials-hit-30-its-economy-not-us-2D11981954).

Years[edit]

For some reason I've come across a lot of different sources that state that it starts either in the early 1970's, others in 1984, and some state that this generation ends in 1995, while others either 1999 or 2000, which one is true? This article barely gives any straightforward definitions, are there any? --Hoang the Hoangest (talk) 05:57, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

there's no agreement about the dates, so there's just no straightforward answer. The article used to have more in depth discussion of the date issue, but I see it's been cut at some point. You're right the earliest dates given are around 76 to start and some as late as the late 80s, with end dates from the early 90s to the early 2000s somewhere. Basically the problem is that no one really agrees what exactly the "millennials" are, so it's an ongoing argument that has no apparent resolution in sight. Peregrine981 (talk) 11:45, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
So Kanye West the other day referred to himself as a Millennial, even though he was born in 1977! There is no agreement on the definition of The Greatest Generation, The Baby Boomers, or Generation X either. Believe me, we GenXers get just as offended when someone born in the 50s is called GenX as you do when someone born in the 70s is called a Millennial. The fact is the transitional groups are "lost." That 70s Show is neither about Boomers nor GenXers. And I've always heard GenY and Millennial separated, as in people born in the 80s were Gen Y, and people born in the 90s as millennials--no one born in 1981 is considered a millennial or a GenX. I think at its core it's a question of whether birth age or rite-of-passage age is the question. If you ask me, GenXers are those who never knew a world without computers, and Millennials never knew a world without the internet. So GenX is 1970s; GenY is 1980s; Millennials are 1990s; and later than that hasn't been named yet because they don't spend money yet.--Mrcolj (talk) 14:44, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
Here's a rule of thumb, if you've ever used the word "hypocrite," you're not Gen X.--Mrcolj (talk) 14:48, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
Of course I've used the word hypocrite. And Baby Boomers are usually defined as Jan 1, 1946 to Dec 31, 1964) and Gen X after that. Generation Jones is about 1954-57 to the end of the Baby Boomers. Those are the That 70s Show kids born in 1959 and 1960. I thought 1995-something is Generation Z but no one knows yet. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:22, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I think that the very concept of these modern generations is fairly flawed. No one can agree what they are because they don't really exist in the way they are discussed in the media. They blend into each other to such a degree that making a really distinct separation between "generation X" and "millennials" is fairly useless. There's not much that truly unites a generation today; I think there's more in common between people of similar backgrounds but different generations than within a generation. That's less true for Baby Boomers who really were shaped by a major demographic and political event (the end of WWII). Exactly as you mention above, generally people born in the late 70s or early 80s "fall through the cracks" and may have equally as much to do with someone from either end of those two decades depending on their personal circumstances. And I think the same will be said of many people born at different times. Anyway, just my two cents, so doesn't count for much, but IMO helps explain why this article is such a pseudoscientific fraud. Peregrine981 (talk) 20:17, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
The years listed here are simply wrong. I'm Generation-Y and I'm NOT a Millennial. There were countless articles written on Generation-Y long before the term Milennials came about. They are simply not the same as this wiki page wrongly states. I explain the difference between Gen-Y and Millennials on my blog. [[[User:jackal242|jackal242]] (talk) 17:31, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
You and I are not experts are deciding who is what the generation name is going to be. However, the sources in this article have decided on the name. --Frmorrison (talk) 04:21, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
A generation should be 18 years. Baby Boomers are considered to be born in the years after WW2 to 1964. Generation X from 1965 to 1982. Milennials 1983 to 2000. Generation Z is anyone born after 2001 to 2018. Too easy. J Bar (talk) 04:35, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
As I see it the Baby Bomber generation ends on January 1, 1960 and Generation X begins. Generation Y (I prefer that over Millennial) is from 1980-1999, and Generation Z is from 2000- today (scheduled to end at the end of 2019) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:403:3F70:E9E3:3D31:5CF4:E311 (talk) 02:28, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
The latest generation to be clearly defined is the "Baby Boomers" all generations that follow have yet to be defined. Some say Generation Y ended in 1995 others say 2005, some say Generation Z will end in 2019 others say 2025. We should point out what the most extreme dates are so that everyone knows the possibilities. TheGamingMaverick (talk) 12:10, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
Even the "Baby Boomer" generation hasn't been clearly defined, at least its end date hasn't, while I usually end the Generation in 1959 (and start Generation X in 1960) some people have it going all the way to (and including) 1964 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:403:3F70:C503:1979:8F7E:4819 (talk) 16:54, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
The end date has been defined as 1964. TheGamingMaverick (talk) 08:46, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
Not sure about that, I still say 1959, plus Baby Boomers where supposed to have born in the afterglow of World War II, by 1960 the country was very much removed from the aftermath of World War II — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:403:3F70:A8F8:EE4F:B134:A005 (talk) 17:19, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
The boom in babies being born ended in 1964 and is so far the latest generation that has a definitive end date TheGamingMaverick (talk) 09:29, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
I don't want to get into a big heated debate on this so this will likely be the last I say on this but the way I (and many other people) see it is that 2 key characteristics of a "Baby Boomer" (in addition to being born in the afterglow of World War II) is that they grew up at the height of the Civil Rights movement and the defining moment of their childhood was the Assassination of John F Kennedy, you really can't say that about someone born in the early 60's. I guess we can at least agree on an overlap from 1960-1964 and that people born in those years can also be considered part of "Generation X" (and to me seem like they more belong there than in the "Baby Boomer" generation). Also for the record by 1960 the birth rates where already in decline after being at a relative high rate for most of the 1950s (with a huge spike in the late 40s right after the end of World War II). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:403:3F70:99FA:284D:2C1D:1380 (talk) 02:37, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Heartbreaking[edit]

That enough people have decided Y and its subset Cold Y are the same as Millennials... My God. This is a travesty. I was born in early 1983. Millennials are nothing like my peer group. Cold Y suited us close to perfectly. We are not Millennials. This is just wrong... Jersey John (talk) 22:29, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry but your personal experience with your peers is not a sound basis to build an encyclopedia. If you have sources to bring to the table, feel free to do so, otherwise it's just idle chatter. LjL (talk) 16:15, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
You know full well that the very nature of the topic creates the unfortunate reality of there being no solid sources. Jersey John (talk) 11:34, 27 April 2016 (UTC) By the way, there are better ways to say things to people you know. But then, we're not the same generation therefore we were probably taught differently...

Grammar question[edit]

Is the word "for" needed in the lede sentence as follows: There are no precise dates for when the generation starts and ends". Don't think it is. 2606:6000:610A:9000:2148:C4CF:FD5F:E50 (talk) 17:58, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it is, but before reverting your removal of it, I asked on ##English on freenode, and other people confirmed they thought it was needed. It is a legitimate doubt since there can be a time or date when something happened, but in this case, I think we're trying to convey that sources don't come up with specific dates for when it starts and ends, rather than simply that the generation itself doesn't start and end on some given dates (which seems even more obvious). LjL (talk) 18:03, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
Yes, it wouldn't "flow" correctly with out it. Mlpearc (open channel) 18:52, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Two names One meaning[edit]

Regretfully, being part of the biggest pansie, cupcake coddled Generation in history, b.1990, i think i'm inclined to give my input and opinion, and to probably vent a little steam. Lets just label both Gens Y and Z as clearly "Millennials", or with these options:

(1) Debate and all that other BS, rename and permenently revert the page

Millennials back to Generation Y

(2) Its own seperate page with both Gens

Millennial (generations) (Generation Y (1977/78 - 1993/94/95) (Generation Z (1994/95 - 20xx)

(3) Seperate page for just the "meaning" to describe the Generations

Millennials (meaning)

(4) Two seperate pages for each respectful Generation, and argeeing to get rid of this stupid moniker once and for all, all across the board.

Generation Y and Generation Z

(5) To hell with it, do away with the the whole BS articles together!

This whole argument "naming" and "label" process has for years gotten out of hand, and very ridiculous. The sad fact, is that its more than likely two different Generations under one single label! Also, simply just listing Generation Z with its own page is in of itself selective (as if Y dosn't come after X or berfore Z), and what many would see as spiteful. Either give the first half of the Mill/Gen its well deserved and appropriate alphabetical letter; and leaving Generation Z with its own page, or put both of them under the same, and practically correct definition. Also, does anyone know just WHO the hell came up with the term "Millennial" in the first freakin place? Its probably one of the most lamest and pathetic names for a Generation label i've or probably others have herd of! Its like naming a specific group of people after what sounds more like a sandwhich or TV channel! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.88.243.13 (talk) 09:58, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

I have never heard anyone claim Millennials/Gen Y and Gen Z are the same generation - they are clearly different. However, those born ~1995-2000 are in a very "grey" spot, in that some marketers claim they're Gen Y, and others say they're Z. Similar to how 1961-1964 has been said to be both Gen X and Baby Boomer years, or 1977-1984 is the cusp between Gen X and Gen Y.--Phil A. Fry (talk) 21:41, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
I agree Millennial is a stupid name as it may have ended after the millennium, I think Generation Y is a better name alas it seems that the name is here to stay. Gen Y and Z are most definitely different there is still a grey region as to where they end and start (somewhere between 1995-2005) but they are still most definitely different. TheGamingMaverick (talk) 12:04, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

You know, speaking as someone born in 1983, I've found that when someone from Generation Trophy/Generation Privilege/Generation No Dodge Ball Because It Teaches Aggression and Singles Out People speaks up "lamenting" the "others" in his or her generation and how they "are not like that," I've found they are typically the worst offenders in actuality. Just saying...

The way I see it "Generation Y" covers a definitely period from 1980-1999 (even though I sometimes say that people born from 1977-1979 on the cusp there are still definite Gen Xers). The "Millennial Generation" is a bit more vague and have seen starting dates after 1980 and ending dates before 1999. I don't think the Gen X cusp goes until 1984 at all since I was born in 1983 and have never considered myself a Gen Xer (nor have I ever heard anyone from my age call themselves so).
I also very much agree on the "Baby Bomber" cusp, I have always started Generation X in 1960 (which is typically its earliest date) but some people start it later.

The New York City Comptrollers Office quote about birth dates[edit]

They're talking about adult Millennials who are working -- not all Millennials. So this is a misquote. Nobody defines a generation by a ten or 11 year span. Even the dictionary says a generation is a 20 to 30 year span.

Look at page 4 of the report (below) it says "Although the term “millennial” has been applied to different age groupings, in this report it refers specifically to people born from 1985 to 1996". And on the same page it says "People born from 1985 to 1996, who were thus 18- to 29-years old as of 2014, are referred to in this report as the “millennial” cohort. That terminology is generally in keeping with colloquial usage, albeit with a meaning somewhat more specific to this report.

So they are talking about adult Millennials who are working -- not the entire group who were born from the early 80s to early 2000s etc.

They need to define it this way because someone under 18 is not their concern for this particular report. They are talking about working age adults from 18 to 29.

See http://comptroller.nyc.gov/wp-content/uploads/documents/NYC_Millennials_In_Recession_and_Recovery.PDF

2606:6000:610A:9000:406B:18F1:9858:46CB (talk) 01:04, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

I accepted your revision on the basis of the above. LjL (talk) 01:07, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Year Range[edit]

The statement "Most researchers and commentators use birth years ranging from the early 1980s to around 2000" should be changed to say "Most researchers and commentators use birth years ranging from as early as 1976 to as late as 2004" as this more accurately represents the earliest starting year and latest ending year. http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/millennials-millennial-generation

TheGamingMaverick (talk) 10:42, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

The current lead seems better. Extreme dates shouldn't be described with the qualifier '"most". Also note the recent and widely reported Pew Research study (which found that Millennials are now more numerous than Baby Boomers) used the birth years 1981-1997: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/25/millennials-overtake-baby-boomers/ This seems to fit better with the current lead. --DynaGirl (talk) 14:21, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
Most likely they would not be "more numerous" than the Baby Boomers if you cut them back to a 97' end date. 2606:6000:610A:9000:A5A0:9546:81CE:A4E1 (talk) 18:15, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
It depends on when you decide to end the "Baby Boomer" generation, as I define it 1959 is the last year of that generation and Generation X starts in 1960 (and ends in 1979). I think that Generation Y goes up to and including 1999, but the "Millennial" Generation may end earlier. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.81.122.79 (talk) 22:45, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
I feel that the earliest starting date and latest ending date should be stated as the generation has yet to be defined and for that reason it would make sense to show the most extreme dates. TheGamingMaverick (talk) 11:57, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
Possibly although quoting "Generation Y" (and even more extreme for the "Millennial" Generation) as from 1976-2004 does seem like rather too much since I don't think that any Generation has ever been defined to cover 29 years (which this would be inclusive of both 1976 and 2004) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:403:3F70:C503:1979:8F7E:4819 (talk) 16:32, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
Hence "starting as early as 1974" and "ending as late as 2004" it is almost definitely not both of the extremes or necessarily either but the point is that the dates are not clearly defined and therefore the whole range should be shown. TheGamingMaverick (talk) 08:49, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
Very True and it is also possible for the years to change over time, for instance I was born in 1983, when I was very young I can sort of recall some people saying that someone born in my birth year where in "Generation X" but by the mid-'90s it was always "Generation Y" (the name "Millennial" hadn't been coined yet at that time), I think what happen was is that they pushed up the end date of the "Baby Boomer" generation which thus pushed up the end date of "Generation X" and the start of "Generation Y", now there is no doubt that a person with my birth year is in "Generation Y" (although there can debate as if we are solidly in the "Millennial" generation or just on the cusp of it). This also brings up the idea that I had earlier in that while the letter generations (i.e. X, Y, and Z) cover a definite period of 2 full calendar decades there may be sub-generations both within them and crossing between parts of them, one of them could be the "Millennials" which might begin sometime in the '80s and end in the mid-'90s. I am not saying that I am lobbying for 2 separate articles for "Generation Y" and "Millennials" but it is worth looking at to see if the 2 generations are interchangeable with one another or if one (i.e. the "Millennials) is a smaller sub-generation within the larger one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:403:3F70:8D44:E562:DD5F:EE02 (talk) 20:05, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Lede[edit]

Do we need to mention the abbreviation "Gen Y"? Why is that important? It makes the lede more awkward. Or why not just use "Gen Y" in the lede and remove the words Generation Y?

Right now it reads: "Millennials (also known as the Millennial Generation[1] or Generation Y, abbreviated to Gen Y". 2606:6000:610A:9000:A5A0:9546:81CE:A4E1 (talk) 19:55, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Dates moved out of "Date and age range defining" section and into "terminology" section[edit]

User:Wwwma, I don't understand your recent revert to move the Howe defining dates out of the section titled: "Date and age range defining" and back into the "Terminology" section. I don't really get your edit summary that the dates are very important to the Howe definition, considering that Howe himself said the end date is tentative specifying "you can’t be sure where history will someday draw a cohort dividing line until a generation fully comes of age." http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2014/10/27/introducing-the-homeland-generation-part-1-of-2/#7e14a9354fdc. I don't get how a tentative date needs to be included in the terminology section.

I think the following text should be moved into the date range section: "Strauss and Howe use 1982 as the Millennials' starting birth year and 2004 as the last birth year. Howe described the last birth year of 2004 as "tentative" saying, "you can’t be sure where history will someday draw a cohort dividing line until a generation fully comes of age."--DynaGirl (talk) 21:07, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

No offense, but just curious if you've read any of Strauss and Howe's books? They all say that 1982 to 2004 are the Millennial's birth dates. In the Forbes article, Howe is discussing the start of "Homelanders" (or Gen Z). We're getting into synthesis to write that Howe is now saying (in only the Forbes piece) that he is revising the birth dates used in Millennials Rising, Millennials and the Pop Culture etc. If you absolutely want to use the Forbes article I think it's a bit unfair to the readers because if you look at the entirety of their writings -- they use 1982 to 2004.
Here's a quote from Howe's Lifecourse website http://www.lifecourse.com/about/method/def/millennial-gen.html: "The Millennial Generation (Hero, born 1982–2004) first arrived amid “Babies on Board” signs, when abortion and divorce rates ebbed, the popular culture recast babies as special, and hands-off parental styles were replaced by Lamaze and attachment-parenting obsessiveness. Child abuse and child safety became hot topics, while books teaching virtues, values, and team-playing citizenship became best-sellers. As Millennials began reaching their teens in the late 1990s, youth volunteering and community service surged—while teen rates of drinking, smoking, and violent crime declined steeply. As they began entering the workforce in the early 2000s, cutting-edge employers implemented safety, feedback, mentorship, and career advancement programs in order to retain their best and brightest. Today, even as they live with or near their parents, first-wave Millennials maintain high hopes for their future in the face of record-high youth unemployment. (AMERICAN: Mark Zuckerberg, LeBron James, Miranda Cosgrove, Michelle Wie, Miley Cyrus, Christopher Paolini; FOREIGN: Prince William, Justin Bieber)". Wwwma (talk) 21:33, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
The article Neil Howe wrote for Forbes was written in 2014 , much more recently than his book on Millenials. Howe's recent comments on dates should be included in the article. In the Forbes article, Howe is describing the generation he says comes after the Millennials (Homelanders) with their start date coming the year after the Millennial's end date.--DynaGirl (talk) 21:35, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Fair point, but we would need to include 1982 to 2004 in your revised statement with a caveat from the Forbes article. Because I will find newer articles than the Forbes piece where he uses 82' to 04' again. In fact his website is the most current to date see the page on Millennials http://www.lifecourse.com/about/method/def/millennial-gen.html
Howe also said this: "The reason I chose 2005 exactly—and again, this remains tentative—is that kids born in that year and after will recall nothing before Barack Obama’s presidency, the financial meltdown of 2008, and the seemingly endless Great Recession that followed". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wwwma (talkcontribs) 21:46, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
If you can find something more recent than 2014, where Howe retracts his statement that the end date is "tentative" and instead declares them now definitive, it would seem reasonable to delete that statement. As of yet, I haven't seen such a retraction from Howe, and it seems unlikely this will come any time soon, considering that would contradict his statement "you can’t be sure where history will someday draw a cohort dividing line until a generation fully comes of age." Without such a reference, it seems unreasonable for you to continually remove this text and it's associated reference. Also, it seems all of this should be moved to the date range and defining section, considering these are date ranges we're talking about. --DynaGirl (talk) 21:58, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
My reference is the Lifecourse website as stated above, it's the most current. What if he changed his mind and posted that to his website recently? We don't know for sure without speaking to him. If you want make a proposal here about how to rewrite this paragraph and I will add my comments to the draft. Thanks. Wwwma (talk) 22:02, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
No where in the link above does Howe retract his statement in Forbes that "you can’t be sure where history will someday draw a cohort dividing line until a generation fully comes of age". It seems unreasonable of you to continually delete this statement, along with the reliable source (Forbes) which references this statement.--DynaGirl (talk) 22:10, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Per Wikipedia status quo and talk page policy please make your proposal here first on the talk page and I will make my comments too. Thanks. Wwwma (talk) 22:12, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
I believe status quo applies to the changing longstanding content, while here you are repeatedly deleting recently added on topic text, and you are repeatedly deleting a reliable source (Forbes) from this article with no policy based justification that I can see.--DynaGirl (talk) 22:21, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Check the history, the statement "Strauss and Howe use 1982 as the Millennials' starting birth year and 2004 as the last birth year" has been in there since at least 2013, that's long standing content. Just make a proposal and we can work things out here. Wwwma (talk) 22:28, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
That's not what we are discussing and I never deleted that statement from the article. Instead, I added a 2014 reference, in which Howe wrote in Forbes that the end date is "tentative" saying "you can’t be sure where history will someday draw a cohort dividing line until a generation fully comes of age". Please explain your rationale for repeatedly deleting this statement and it's associated reference from the article.--DynaGirl (talk) 22:40, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Um, please look at what you titled this talk page discussion, you clearly said it's about "Dates moved out of "Date and age range defining" section and into "terminology" section". So listen, instead of wasting alot of more time please just add what you want or make a proposal here first. It's not that big of a deal. Wwwma (talk) 22:50, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
No way people born in 2004 are Millennials they weren't even born at the start of the Millenium — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.81.122.79 (talk) 22:52, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Who said Millennials had to be born at "the start of the millennium"? Who defines what the start of the millennium is, anyway? Does only 1 January 2001 count for instance? Your comment is neither here nor there. LjL (talk) 00:18, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
It seems like most people define Millennials as those who grew up (and more specifically came-of-age) at the start of the new Millennium, which is why I agree that it may end before 1999 (as many people) and may actually be a sub-generation within Generation Y and not used interchangeably with it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.81.113.223 (talk) 00:51, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
Millennials is just a name for generation y just like how "baby boomers" was the name of a generation. The generation however is not defined as having to end before 2000 just because of a name and many place the ending year between 1995-2005. TheGamingMaverick (talk) 11:53, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
Possibly but it should be noted that there are sub-generations (usually lasting for a shorter period of time than a full letter generation), such as "The Beat Generation", "Generation Jones", and "MTV Generation" which in some cases combine memebers from 2 seperate "defined" generation (i.e. "Generation Jones" includes some members of the "Baby Boom" Generation as well as some members of "Generation X") — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:403:3F70:C503:1979:8F7E:4819 (talk) 16:42, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
That one of the more prominent definers of the generation has something to say about "where history will someday draw a cohort dividing line" seems entirely relevant here, for a recent generation. I can't see that it's undermining or contradicting anything to the point where a WP:STATUSQUO is an issue. --McGeddon (talk) 08:36, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
The new quote is wrong, the article actually says :"Why was 2005 chosen as this generation’s (Homelanders) first birth year? The 2005 date remains tentative". It should be rewritten, as mentioned above it's synthesis to add your own interpretation. The Forbes article is about Gen Z (Homelanders) not Millennials. Anyway the date is wrong for sure. Wwwma (talk) 14:12, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
Agreed on the text move; it's important to mention the "link to the millennial year 2000" when discussing the coining of "Millennial", but not the start and end dates. In fact, the current article doesn't mention Strauss and Howe's dates at all in the "Date and age range" section, which seems like an oversight. --McGeddon (talk) 08:43, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
McGeddon Strauss and Howe's methodology is based on birth years. Why is it important to move those facts out of there? You can always add something else under dates. And please remove the misquote based on the above because you added it back today. We shouldn't just make stuff up. If you see an error then just fix it. Wwwma (talk) 15:24, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

The defining feature of the millennial generation is that they came of age when the world entered the new millennium (the year 2000), and that they have some recollection of that event/time, including some recollection of both the former millennium and the new millennium as children/youth. Most authors agree that the millennial generation comprises those born from 1980/81 until the mid 1990s, often defined more precisely as ending no later than 1996 (although the "core millennials" could be said to be the generation born in the 1980s and early 1990s). Someone who was born several years after year 2000, and who has no recollection of anything before 2010 or something, is not a member of the millennial generation. --Bjerrebæk (talk) 17:29, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

I agree although I might put the start date in the mid-80s for the Millenials, for instance I was born in 1983 but I really don't consider myself a Millennial (although I do consider myself a member of "Generation Y") — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:403:3F70:99FA:284D:2C1D:1380 (talk) 02:42, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Ad Age definition[edit]

What is "those who were aged 11 or younger as well as the teenagers of the upcoming ten years who were defined as different from Generation X" actually trying to say, in the Ad Age definition? "Teenagers of the upcoming ten years" is plainly a subset of "those aged 11 or younger", who will all be aged 10-21 after ten years. I can't check the source because it's an offline one. --McGeddon (talk) 10:21, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

My take on this[edit]

Pending Changes protection[edit]

This page has been through the gamut of protections (lots of unsourced additions and disruptive editing) - I've put in a PC protection request, this should help prevent the type of disruptive editing we've been dealing with. Thanks, Garchy (talk) 16:19, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Dates in Lead[edit]

I've noticed recent dispute regarding dates in lead. It seems the current lead which states cohort ends at "around 2000" doesn't really reflect the totality of sources currently in the date range and defining section. I suggest lead be changed to "There are no precise dates for when the generation starts and ends; most demographers and researchers use the early 1980s as starting birth years and use the mid 1990s to the early 2000s as final birth years."--DynaGirl (talk) 02:31, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Based on the totality of sources, it seems more accurate to use a wording like "the early 1980s as starting birth years" and "the mid 1990s or 2000 as final birth years" (alternatively "the mid 1990s to 2000 as final birth years", although sources tend to use either the mid 1990s (often 1996) or 2000, and seldom years like 1997, 1998). Most sources seem to agree that millennials are those born mainly in the 1980s and early 1990s, with 1980 or 1981 as the most widely cited starting years and 1996 as the most widely cited final birth year. A minority of sources also include those born in the late 1990s and the year 2000. Very few sources seem to include anyone born after 2000, who have no recollection of the defining experience of the millennial generation. --Bjerrebæk (talk) 18:47, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
According to the 12 demographers/researchers currently in the date range and defining some do not specify end date and 4 say 2000s. Among the other sources, 1 uses early 1990s (which seems to be an outlier); 4 use mid 1990s and 1 uses late 1990s. Given these sources. I think reporting the typical final birth year range as between "mid-1990s to early 2000s" seems clearest way to word this. I get what you're saying regarding we could say "mid 1990s or early 2000s", but I think that's really unnecessary and drawing a fine line because the 1996 sources could be considered late 90s by some people and we do have the 1998 source in between there.--DynaGirl (talk) 19:04, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
Bjerrebæk regarding your recent change of "early 2000s" to specifically 2000, this doesn't seem accurate. Only 2 sources say exactly 2000, while others say 2001 or 2004 and some do not yet specify an ending date. --DynaGirl (talk) 19:21, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
Bjerrebæk I see you changed it again to your preferred version absent consensus. Saying lead shouldn’t include minority opinion. But you added a minority opinion to the lead. Saying exactly 2000 instead of “early 2000s” seems inaccurate because very few sources end the Millennial generation at exactly 2000. I restored the longstanding version of the lead for now, which had been stable for a long time prior to the recent dispute. Please note there’s inline text following the dates in the lead which says “please seek talk page consensus before changing”. Let’s try that. I think the text in the lead should be changed to “Demographers and researchers typically use the early 1980s as starting birth years and use the mid 1990s to the early 2000s as final birth years for the Millennial Generation.” This seems to accurately summarize the sources in the date range and defining section.--DynaGirl (talk) 03:08, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

It seems Bjerrebæk has dropped the talk page discussion. Does anyone else have any objections or concerns regarding my suggested wording of “Demographers and researchers typically use the early 1980s as starting birth years and use the mid 1990s to the early 2000s as final birth years for the Millennial Generation.”? --DynaGirl (talk) 12:13, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Stop acting like everyone in this generation loves Bernie Sanders.[edit]

It's really bad stereotyping of Millennials and it reflects the liberal bias of habitual Wikipedia editors.96.235.152.241 (talk) 00:38, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

There's not much text in article about Sanders and the statement that he was the most popular candidate among Millennials and the quote from Washington Post are reliably sourced. That being said, feel free to add reliably sourced content regarding preferences among Republican/conservative Millennials to the article as well. --DynaGirl (talk) 14:06, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
Exactly most people classify myself as a "Millennial" and I can tell you that I despise Bernie Sanders (and know many other people my age who also do so) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:403:3F70:99FA:284D:2C1D:1380 (talk) 04:26, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 July 2016[edit]

Please include a link to Agnosticism in the religious section near the first mention of non-religiousness. The demographics section of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism#Demographics is a good cross-reference point for this paragraph and gives a proper name to the concept being discussed...


208.64.206.4 (talk) 21:43, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Done nyuszika7h (talk) 13:03, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Statistics Canada dates[edit]

I recently removed this text from article: "In 2015, the official body of Statistics Canada defined 1992 as the last year of birth for Generation Y"

I removed this because it's was sourced to the popular press and when I checked Statistics Canada for more official reference I saw that Statistics Canada doesn't actually recognize a Millennials cohort. They instead have a combined GenX/Millennials group which they named "Children of baby boomers born (1972-1992)" which follows a five year "Baby bust" group (1966-1971) [1]--DynaGirl (talk) 15:54, 28 July 2016 (UTC)