Talk:Mingrelian language

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Languages (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Languages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of standardized, informative and easy-to-use resources about languages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject Georgia (country) (Rated C-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Georgia (country), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Georgia and Georgians on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject Caucasia (Rated C-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Caucasia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Caucasia, Caucasian people and Caucasian languages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

Number of Speakers[edit]

Number of speakers of Megrelian Language is not correct. Firstly, it is true that nobody really counts it officially, but we can deduce this number from the census conducted in Megrelia.

According to recent (2010) census only 450 000 persons live in Megrelian. Large part of them living in Poti, Abasha, Senaki, don't speak or almost don't speak Megrelian. Therefore, number of speakers would not be more than 400 000 within the Megrelia. Around 30 000 live in Gali district of Abkhazia and around 180 000 Megrels are internally displaced after the conflicts in Abkhaz region of Georgia.

So, the maximum number of speakers would be 610 000 but no way 800 000(!). I have read some book, according to which number of persons having Megrelian family names in Georgia are around 800 000. However, Many of them, who have long lived in other parts of Gerogia, except Megrelia and Abkhazia, don't speak this language and do not transfer them to next generation.

The trend of decrease of the language speakers is so evident that UNESCO has enlisted Megrelian among the endangered language.

one more thing: Recently wikipedia page in Megrel langauge has been created. Could you please not this somewhere in the article or in the references or in the external links or at some other place? This is the megrel wikipeida:

Machirkholi (talk) 00:54, 13 July 2011 (UTC)MachirkholiMachirkholi (talk) 00:54, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

here is some data about number of speakers. Please check the page 4. Again, number of speakers is 400 000 - 500 000 BUT in no way 800 000. Eight hundred thousand is the approximate number of persons having megrelian family names which certain is very different from number of speakers!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Machirkholi (talkcontribs) 07:05, 4 September 2011 (UTC)


According to Simon Sebag Montefiroe, Candide Charkviani was a Mengrelian "Beria was a Mingrelian, so was Charkviani who had run it since", Pg. 632 of Stalin: Court of the Red Tsar. Someone has informed me he was a Svan but I would appreciate a reference please. Seth J. Frantzman (talk) 21:03, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

- Kandid Charkviani is Svan, while Beria is Megrelian! no doubt about it :) --Machirkholi (talk) 10:37, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

All Georgian names that end in -ia or -ava are Mingrelian... while all Georgian names that end in -ani are Svan. (talk) 18:39, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Number of speakers and other disputed facts[edit]

To 213.157.193.*: apparently the facts (esp. numbers of speakers) which you have repeatedly placed on this page are in disagreement with the sources originally found by the authors of this article. Please either state here your sources and/or your rationale for continually placing these facts here or cease continued altering of this page. -- Grunt 01:38, 2004 Jun 14 (UTC)

here is some data about number of speakers. Please check the page 4.

Again, number of speakers is 400 000 - 500 000 BUT in no way 800 000. Eight hundred thousand is the approximate number of persons having megrelian family names which certain is very different from number of speakers!! --Machirkholi (talk) 07:05, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Relationship to Georgian language[edit]

To those readers who insist on deleting the information about the relationship between the Laz and Georgian languages: the date of separation between the Laz/Megrelian language subfamily and the Georgian language is given by several linguists, including Georgian ones. Ditto for the fact that Laz, Georgian, and Megrelian are mutually unintelligible — which is also attested by Megrelian native speakers. Jorge Stolfi 12:21, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Dear stoffi. Georgian scientist are often subiective. Megrelian and especially Svan are much more older than Georgian. Iriatoni

Please explain what you mean by this statement. Georgian, Laz, Svan and Megrelian refer to the modern languages. All languages change gradually with time, so it is meaningless to say that a language is older than another. Moreover, there are no records of Svan or Megrelian older than 200--300 years, are there? We can only say (based on differences) when the lineages that resulted in the modern languages split apart. All my sources give the same tree: A-->(B,C); C-->(D,E); E-->(F,G); B-->Svan; D-->Georgian; F-->Laz; G-->Megrelian. Do you dispute this? Jorge Stolfi 19:55, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

 100.000 is the population of only  one zugdidi District.

Separation of Laz and Megrelian[edit]

To User:Iriatoni: I do not understand what you mean with the phrase "separated by Georgian and Turkic tribes". Do you mean "separated by invasions of Georgian and Turkic tribes", or "separated into northern (Georgian) and southern (Turkish) communities"? Please clarify. (And please refrain from gratuituosly insulting people who spent many hours putting together this article.) Jorge Stolfi 12:21, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

yes, I think the give data is wrong. Laz and Megrelian were separated much earlier and that happened around the middle of first millenium AD, rather than 500 years ago and naturally they were not separated by Turkic tribes, but rather by Kartic (Georgian) migrations from the south, when the South Georgians settled the area between modern day Megrelia and Lazistan. The descendants of those south Georgians are the Gurians and Ajarians, while the Laz and Megrelians got separated... —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

Spoken in Abkhazia[edit]

The Mingrelian language is spoken in Abkhazia and Georgia. The abkhazian name is true. --Kmoksy (talk) 13:55, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree, bur the status of Abkhazia is itself disputed. –BruTe Talk 07:22, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
It does not matter. The Abkhaz name is encyclopedic data --Kmoksy (talk) 02:51, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
The Mingrelian language may be spoken anywhere the Mingrelians live, that does not mean that we should have notations in Russian, English, and so on.--ComtesseDeMingrélie 03:10, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
The Abkhaz name for Mingrelian language is Агыршәа Agyrshwa and it's encyclopedic data. The Abkhaz name is not deleting. --Kmoksy (talk) 03:30, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
First, please explain to me what is "encyclopedic data" and why you highlight it every single time. Second, what do you mean by "The Abkhaz name is not deleting"?--ComtesseDeMingrélie 04:59, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
FIRST, the Abkhaz name for Mingrelian language is Агыршәа Agyrshwa just as "Georgian: მეგრული ენა megruli ena". Because, The names are "encyclopedic data", both spoken in the Georgian-speaking and Abkhaz-speaking areas. SECOND, "The Abkhaz name is not deleting" :-) --Kmoksy (talk) 23:35, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
To be honest, I don't understand your point. Armenians have one of the largest diaspora in the world. Now should we include Georgian, Russian, English and French names of the Armenian language? –BruTe Talk 14:04, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Stop, stooop, stoppp! Your edit is "vandalism-like". This wikipedia is not Georgia's Wiikipedia! --Kmoksy (talk) 14:34, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
I agree, this isn't "Georgia's Wiikipedia", but this is not the place for your political agendas. You just keep ignoring "Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not" policy. Please stop this disruptive editing and making personal attacks on the other users or you might be got blocked, I'm afraid... Thanks! –BruTe Talk 17:06, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
One word: Stop!
What is this "your political agendas" Stop!.
--Kmoksy (talk) 18:43, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

(Out of subject) Dear friend Brute, a person can easily understand your politic ideas from your edits. You'r acting like a sinless angel here :) maybe you can change somethings here as your opinion with using wikipedia policies cutely but don't forget that you can't change the truths. Arguni (talk) 00:57, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Dear Arguni, I really don't try to use the encyclopaedia as a platform of my politic ideas. I want to judge the issue, but you just keep on not answering the above arguments raised by ComtesseDeMingrélie. Just try to prove that the Abkhazian spelling is relevant for this article rather than edit warring, or discussion is over. –BruTe Talk 08:36, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand why the name of the language must be indicated in Abkhazian language? If De Facto Abkhaz government was giving some status to the language, then there could be some ground to argue that the name of the language must be specified in Abkhazian language too, but now I don't see any reason for this. Anyway, there would be no harm in indicating the Megrelian langauge name in Abkhaz langauge, as it (i.e. Megrelian Language) was always present in what is called today Abkhazia! :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Machirkholi (talkcontribs) 00:58, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

"Colchian" removed[edit]

Removed from info box. This should really go in the Zan languages article:

Zan (Colchian)[ K'olxuri Ena (Colchian Language)]

Shouldn't be covered here if we don't even mention it there. Should also not be used here unless it's a common synonym for Zan in English, which it is not. — kwami (talk) 09:59, 19 February 2011 (UTC) Machirkholi (talk) 00:59, 13 July 2011 (UTC)MachirkholiMachirkholi (talk) 00:59, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Not deleting[edit]

The Abkhaz name for Mingrelian language is not deleting. The Mingrelian name აბჟუა on the page Abkhazia. Please, not deleting. --Kmoksy (talk) 10:36, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

  • The Abkhaz: Агыршәа Agyrshwa name deleted by User ComtesseDeMingrelie on the page Mingrelian language. But, Megrelian: აბჟუა Abzhua name for page Abkhazia not deleted. This is not neutral. This wikipedia is not Georgia's Wikipedia. --Kmoksy (talk) 16:23, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
If you are unhappy with something on Abkhazia page, why are you discussing this on Mingrelian language page? Go and open a talk there, what do you want from us?--ComtesseDeMingrélie 16:36, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Abkhazia is a page for the REGION, and Mingrelian is spoken there, that is why it is noted. Mingrelian language is not a page for a region where many languages are spoken, it is a page for a SPECIFIC language. There is no Mingrelian notation on Abkhaz language page either.--ComtesseDeMingrélie 01:14, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
What is "If you are unhappy with something on Abkhazia page"? This wikipedia is not Georgia's Wikipedia! The Georgian and Abkhazian names for Mingrelian language are encyclopedic. Just delete the wrong one of two. See also "therefore it makes sense to also have the Abkhaz name". Stop! --Kmoksy (talk) 08:50, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

The Mingrelians are not Georgians[edit]

What is this: "Mingrelian ....spoken in .... by Georgians of Mingrelian origin". What is this? The term "Georgians of Mingrelian origin" used by Georgian politicians. Mingrelians use a different language from Georgians. The term "Georgians of Mingrelian origin" is not neutral and not scientific! Let us again: This wikipedia is not Georgia's Wikipedia! --Kmoksy (talk) 09:11, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

This is really stupid to write. Megrel Language is closely related to Georgian. Georgian language has been for centuries language of Church for Megrel and currently language also official language and MOST IMPORTANTLY - Megrel people themselves consider to be Georgians. So please do not add this stupid remark that Megrelians are not Georgians! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Machirkholi (talkcontribs) 01:02, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Machirkholi (talk) 01:03, 13 July 2011 (UTC)MachirkholiMachirkholi (talk) 01:03, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

UNESCO Interactive Atlas of the World’s Languages in Danger[edit]

Only the number of speakers of Mingrelian is Klimov’s data. The rest is UNESCO data. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apswaaa (talkcontribs) 13:02, 13 March 2011 (UTC)


I have protected the page to encourage consensus building rather than shouting matches and editwarring. IF you all agree that protection is no longer needed I will unprotect.·Maunus·ƛ· 17:30, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

It’s time to unprotect the page and go back to my version. Apswaaa (talk) 23:01, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
As I remember, the article was blocked because there was an existing disagreement and that still stands.--ComtesseDeMingrélie 06:38, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
I want to add "vocabulary" part for this article. Arguni (talk) 20:00, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
My version is well sourced. You can’t provide any dissenting sources. Apswaaa (talk) 21:17, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
What do you actually mean? The Georgian name for Mingrelian is a legitimate part of the lead for two simple reasons: first, Mingrelian is mostly spoken in Georgia where Georgian is the official language; second, virtually all Mingrelians are bilingual in Mingrelian and Georgian. What has the Abkhaz name for Mingrelian to do with all of these? Most Mingrelians don't speak Abkhaz and most Abkhaz have no knowledge of Mingrelian. --KoberTalk 04:03, 22 March 2011 (UTC) Apswaaa (talk) 10:21, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Vocabulary (New section)[edit]

Here are the examples from Mingrelian vocabulary;

  • Ko, Ho (ქო, ჰო) - Yes
  • Va (ვა) - No
  • Si (სი) — You
  • Skan(i) (სქან) — Your
  • Chkim(i) (ჩქიმ) — My
  • Gumordzgua (გუმორძგუა) - Hello
  • Mucho rek? (მუჭო რექ) - How are you?
  • Jgiro vorek (ჯგირო ვორექ) - I'm fine
  • Si sovreshe rek? (სი სოვრეშე რექ) - Where are you from?
  • Zugdidshe vorek (ზუგდიდშე ვორექ) - I'm from Zugdidi (a city in Mingrelia region of Georgia)
  • Si mus ortunk? (სი მუს ორთუნქ) - What are you doing?
  • Margalur gichkuno? (მარგალურ გიჩქუნო?) - Do you know Mingrelian?
  • Ko, komichku (ქო, ქომიჩქუ) - Yes, i know
  • Koch(i) (კოჩი) - Man
  • Osur(i) (ოსურ) - Woman
  • Baghana (ბაღანა) - Child
  • Dzghabi (ძღაბი) - Girl
  • Jima (ჯიმა) - Brother
  • Da (და ) - Sister
  • Nina (ნინა) - Language, tongue
  • Nanash nina (ნანაშ ნინა) - Mother tongue
  • Tina mok'o (თინა მოკო) - I want it

-- it's enough for now, i will add more so "ComtesseDeMingrélie" can learn something from here :) Arguni (talk) 00:35, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

This article is not a dictionary and this vocabulary does not serve any meaningful purpose here. As for me learning something,I do not need to be taught by a propagandist like Arguni what these words mean when every single member of my family is a Mingrelian and I have spent summers there all my life. --ComtesseDeMingrélie 01:30, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Arguni, you are being provocative. If you can't engage in a normal conversion without insulting others, you are never going to be respected or taken seriously. Back to the topic, a few words in Mingrelian in a proper context would not be out of place here, but I don't get the idea of having this list in the article. In general, Wikipedia is not a dictionary. We have Wiktionary for that matter. --KoberTalk 03:59, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
These are just "examples" from this language. I know wikipedia is not a dictionary, but i think there is no problem to add these. Look here to see similar sections; French language, Italian language, Portuguese language and continues... Arguni (talk) 05:30, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
I'd better take one of Wikipedia's Featured Articles as an example, e.g., Turkish language, Tamil language, Swedish language, in which these "example" words are given in some context rather than within a randomly made-up list. The idea of having a "Sample" also seems good to me. --KoberTalk 05:40, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
And dear ComtesseDeMingrelie, if you want to see a real propagandist (who wants to spread kartvel propaganda on Lazs), you can turn your face to

the mirror. Arguni (talk) 05:50, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Personal attacks again? Now its pretty much clear that you cannot simply live without insulting others. I have tried to give the discussion an appearance of normality; to no avail, I see. Your permanent upsurges in aggression amid the discussion is a testimony that you will never learn what Wikipedia is for. I think the best way to deal with this user is to ignore him/her.--KoberTalk 06:00, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Look to previous message of ComtesseDeMingrélie and see who is insulting others. I was bored to be called as "propagandist" by that person. I want to contribute here but you all have antipathy against me and you all want to block my contributions here. The "sample" section is good idea for this article (i know this is not a dictionary but this article can give some informations to readers about samples from vocabulary of this language), i will find some poems or some texts for this section, then maybe we can discuss about it. Arguni (talk) 16:54, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
The only thing to contribute to these pages are ethnic tensions and encouragement of separatism. This is why you do not limit yourself to Lazs but spread lies about Mingrelians, Svans, and support the propaganda revert war waged by Apswaaa. This useless vocabulary is just part of your attempt to appear more constructive, when all you want is to have the page unblocked - as you stated above - so that you can pollute it further. --ComtesseDeMingrélie 22:31, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Show me a proof which i support Apswaa. Don't say lie here to be shown as neutral in this subject. Leave your prejudiced blames about me, instead of blame me as "seperatist propaganda maker" pls find a proof in my edits (except my nervous messages against your editwarring, already i apologized for that messages from you and Brute in here). Arguni (talk) 22:56, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
I am not going to repeat what I already said so many times. Few examples from your smear campaign:[1],[2].--ComtesseDeMingrélie 23:04, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Few examples, so where is the rest of it? These messages about Mingrelians (which i repent and thinking about it too much) were irritable reflections by me against you and your other friends Kober's and Brute's needless editwars about Lazs; here, here (2), here (3), here (4), here (5), here (6) ... the other of my messages were about changing "Kartvelian languages" name to "South Caucasian languages". Arguni (talk) 23:22, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Lazs are indeed considered Turkified by Georgians and I will include a source to prove that.--ComtesseDeMingrélie 23:43, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
No need to find a source, Lazs (me too) call themselves as Turk because of national identity, i belong to Turkish community, but this doesn't mean that we forgot our Laz ethnicity and language, and also this situation doesn't prove that Lazs are Turkified. You think as unilateral in this subject. Arguni (talk) 23:58, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
No, but Lazs in Georgia consider themselves Georgian and often label their Turkish counterparts as Turkified. This is what my source says.--ComtesseDeMingrélie 00:01, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
And I call them as "Georgianized" so what? Arguni (talk) 00:06, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Believe it or not, Georgia was there before Turkey/Ottoman Empire ever existed, so I doubt you can win the Turkified/Georgianized argument.--ComtesseDeMingrélie 00:14, 23 March 2011 (UTC) The only reason
This resource says another thing. Arguni (talk) 00:28, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
All I got was a blank page with a Turkish inscription.--ComtesseDeMingrélie 00:29, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
In any case, it is written by American-Armenian Scholars Batalden, which is an Anglicanized form of Bataldian. Armenians - along with the Russians, Abkhazs like Apswaaa, and the ones like Arguni - are known for working towards Georgia's destruction through spreading falsehood. That is why they wont ask the Mingrelians and Svans themselves before jumping to conclusions, they do not care what we think. That is why they were so eager to take part in ethnic cleansing during the expulsion of civilians from Abkhazia.--ComtesseDeMingrélie 00:38, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Still you are consulting me, i told myself to you 100 times but you don't want to understand me, It is very depressing to live in a time when it is easier to split the atom than to break down a prejudice. Please don't make demagogy about this subject with using my nickname. I'm sad for Mingrelians and Georgians too who were killed in the Abkhazian war. Even you don't know my views about ethnic cleansing in Abkhazia. But you are easily consulting me with a severe blame. Big shame! Arguni (talk) 00:52, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia created[edit]

Please change the interproject link to point at their new Wikipedia. Thanks! SPQRobin (talk) 14:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Change which interwiki? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:51, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
There is a template {{incubator|code=xmf}}, this should be changed to {{InterWiki|code=xmf}}. SPQRobin (talk) 19:10, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Okay Yes check.svg Done but it doesn't seem to be in the correct section to me. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:27, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Well, you can change it, I can't ;-) SPQRobin (talk) 01:31, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Broken external links[edit]

In the external links section The first ABC-Book doesn't load anything. Can someone change it and point to this? The last link is also obsolete there. Kilavagora (talk) 19:30, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Mingrelian language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 10:53, 7 January 2016 (UTC)