Talk:Mordant

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I was just watching season 1, episode 2, of Rough Science, and it says that urine can also be used as a mordant. I got it wrong. I finished watching the episode, and they tried 3 different liquids for mordants. Turns out boiled urine didn't work afterall. I can't recall what they did end up using. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.167.171.207 (talk) 30 July 2006

Urine is part of an affixed stain. Indigo, I think, but don't ask me for the whole process. Brewhaha@edmc.net 09:08, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Is it worth adding a section on that by definition, only a metal can be a mordant? I know that it is common usage to refer to non-metals such as tannic and picric acids as mordants, but this is technically incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.180.206.234 (talk) 26 January 2007

fixative is a synonym, much as in photography. Hmmm. Dye sublimation might be relevant, too. Mordants affix stains. IOW, Mr. Stuart's blueing (potassium ferrocyanate) can be affixed by sodium hypochlorite (bleach). In photography, the mordant removes part of the stain, but there's also a fixation step. Brewhaha@edmc.net 09:07, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

This page could use a note regarding the use of mordants on candle wicks. I don't know enough about it to make the addition myself. QuinnHK 23:18, 6 February 2007 (UTC) blah

I think that's off topic. pyrotechnics and stains are quite different.Brewhaha@edmc.net 09:07, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Alum: (Aluminum Potassium Sulfate) This is the most widely used mordant. Be careful not to use too much with wool, otherwise you will get a sticky feeling that doesn't come out.

Copper: (Copper Sulfate) This mordant is used to bring out the greens in dyes. It will also darken the dye colors, similar to using tin, but is less harsh.

  • Chrome: (Potassium Dichromate)

Chrome brightens dye colors and is more commonly used with wool and mohair than with any other fiber.

Extremely toxic. Chrome should not be inhaled and gloves should be worn while working with chrome. Left over mordant water should be disposed of at a chemical waste disposal site and treated as hazardous waste.

Iron: (Ferrous Sulfate) Dulls and darkens dye colours. Using too much will make the fiber brittle.

Glaubersalt: (Sodium Sulfate) Used in natural dyes to level out the bath. Also use in chemical dye.

Spectralite: (Thiourea Dioxide) This is a reducing agent for indigo dyeing.

Tara Powder: (Caesalpinia Spinosa) Tara Powder is a natural tannin product. It is needed for darker colors on cotton, linen and hemp.

Tartaric Acid: A must for cochineal. This mordant will expand the cochineal colors.

Tin: (Stannous Chloride) Tin will give extra bright colors to reds, oranges and yellows on protein fibers. Using too much will make wool and silk brittle. To avoid this you can add a pinch of tin at the end of the dying time with fiber that was premordanted with alum. Tin is not commonly used with cellulose fibers.

Calcium Carbonate: Is to be used with indigo powder for the saxon blue color. It can also be used to lower the acidity of a dyebath. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.182.98.168 (talk) 00:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Proposed merger of mordant into fixative[edit]

  • Disagree. We need a longer article specifically on mordants used in dyeing textiles; perhaps what is currently there could be moved to a disambiguation page and the article on dyeing could live at mordant? - PKM 19:46, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Disagree: I've edited mordant to be more technically correct, will get around to fixative. There is the quite obvious reason that a fixative is a specific substance used for preservation while mordants are used for binding of dyes. Lateonenite (talk) 03:27, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Would have agreed, but seems pointless at this late date. However did create a Dye fixative redirect page to this article today. FrankB 20:05, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

whew[edit]

bit too technical, or needs a non-technical intro

inconsistency[edit]

The text says that all mordants are polyvalent metals, yet lists sodium chloride as one possibility 174.114.48.103 (talk) 07:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

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Mordants in history needed[edit]

re: Section mordant#Mordants in history Added a {{sect-stub|date=September 2016|talksection=Talk:Mordant#Mordants in history needed|reason=I know from reading on Industrial history, there were a number of such chemicals with interesting historical footnotes. Such tales belong here.}} template in the section on history, also just started with the first such entry.

Rationale
I know from reading on Industrial history, there were a number of such chemicals with interesting historical footnotes. Such tales belong here, so those of you in a chemical industry or science, dig some of these up and document the same. // FrankB 20:11, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

silk vs. wool, thio groups[edit]

The Mordant#Silk section is difficult to understand, and it seems to spend more words on wool than on silk. Here's how I understood it, but I might be wrong:

  • "Like wool, silk is also amphoteric and can absorb both acids as well as bases." OK, both are the same in this respect.
  • "However, wool has thio groups (-SH) from the cystine amino acid, which act as reducing agent and can reduce hexavalent chromium of potassium dichromate to trivalent form." This describes wool but does not say whether silk likewise has thio groups.
  • "The trivalent chromium forms the complex with the fibre and dye." I figure the complex is what keeps the dye attached to the fibre, i.e. it is desirable. Then it must mean potassium dichromate is an effective mordant on wool, thanks to the thio groups.
  • "Therefore, potassium dichromate cannot be used effectively as mordant." Here it says the opposite though. Perhaps this last sentence refers to silk rather than wool. In that case, it should say so.

It would be good to list a reference for those thio groups and their role in dyeing, too. 2001:14BB:140:6FA2:B8C0:307F:5663:E476 (talk) 00:15, 20 November 2016 (UTC)