Talk:Motor Torpedo Boat PT-658

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Meaning of "operable"[edit]

To SJMorg: Thanks first of all for helping with the cleanup and grammar and the like on this page, your efforts are appreciated! Just to explain the hangup on the word "operable": I have had several people tell me that the use of that term may give the idea to some people that all the parts work, EVEN THE WEAPONS! So I wanted to differentiate that the weapons do not work, but the wooden boat is actually afloat in the water and all 3 of the gasolne V12 engines work (that in itself is quite a big deal!) We dont want the BATFE or the General Public to think we have a bunch of crazy vets with guns riding around in Portland! OK so thanks again for your help! Jerry — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jngilmar (talkcontribs) 08:03, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

No problem. I wasn't really questioning the wording, but just pointing out that the Oregonian newspaper article didn't give that kind of detailed wording, and it merely said "operable", so it wasn't quite correct to change the wording while leaving the citation in place. I moved the location of the Oregonian citation within the sentence, as you've seen, which eliminated that issue. SJ Morg (talk) 08:19, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Dates and CS1 parameters[edit]

Each Citation Style 1 template is designed to identify a single reference source. Data within a CS1 template are passed to external referencing tools through COinS metadata. If the data contained in a citation's parameters include extraneous information then the external referencing tools will find it difficult or impossible to extract the correct information.

Here is the html output of Editor SJ Morg's The Oregonian citation (some parameters removed for clarity):

<cite class="citation news">"PT-658, last ...". ''[[The Oregonian]]''. September 8, 2012 (online date September 7). p.&nbsp;B2.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=The+Oregonian&rft.atitle=PT-658%2C+last+...&rft.chron=September+8%2C+2012+%28online+date+September+7%29&rft.pages=B2&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3AMotor+Torpedo+Boat+PT-658" class="Z3988"></span> <span class="cs1-visible-error error citation-comment">Check date values in: <code class="cs1-code">&#124;date=</code> ([[Help:CS1 errors#bad_date|help]])</span>'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-0000000D-QINU`"'

The |date= is translated to this COinS key/value pair:

&rft.date=September+8%2C+2012+%28online+date+September+7%29

This COinS contains two dates, one of them incomplete, plus text and characters not normally associated with the standard date formats.

When there are two dates associated with a source, what matters is: WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT. If you saw it in two places, choose one, or separately cite both. If the source is an online source and you expect its date to change, include |accessdate=.

Trappist the monk (talk) 13:27, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Although I've been editing Wikipedia for almost 5 years, have added thousands of citations (often, adding or improving citations is the only reason I edit a particular article) and am a college graduate, I don't understand about half of what you just wrote. This needs to be addressed in plain English at some citation how-to pages. "Picking one" date is not a good solution when the print-edition date is the date under which the article will eventually be archived by the newspaper (in its paid archive or via NewsBank) while the online date – for the very same article – is the only one a reader will see if they click on the link during the time (limited, but could be days, months or years) that the article is available for free online. If the templates are unable to include both, that's a shortcoming of the templates. I'm too busy to do anything more on this right now, but maybe in late September I'll pose a question about dealing with this issue on one of the citation-style talk pages. For now, I'll ask: Does including hidden text in a citation template foul up the COinS output? Occasionally, I've used that method to record the print-edition date and page number or headline in a template, so that they can be substituted for the online ones after the free online version of an article goes away, but usually I've preferred the method in which both dates are visible. SJ Morg (talk) 07:49, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
Yes you can hide the extra date. For the citation (again, stuff left out for clarity):
{{cite news |title=PT-658, last ... |newspaper=[[The Oregonian]] |date=September 8, 2012 <!-- (online date September 7) --> |page=B2}}
|date= translates to this COinS key/value pair:
&rft.date=September+8%2C+2012
I've made this change to the article's citation.
The Citation Style 1 talk page is Help talk:Citation Style 1, a common talk page for all CS1 templates.
Trappist the monk (talk) 11:13, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
OK. Thanks. For the time being, I'll use hidden text in such cases, to avoid fouling up the COinS output. SJ Morg (talk) 10:59, 31 August 2013 (UTC)