Talk:Mount Everest/Archive 5

Archive 1

←

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

Archive 6

Archive 7

Suggested Photo Add to the Image Gallery

Consider adding:

Mt. Everest from Gokyo Ri, Khumbu, Nepal

— Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎Rdevany (talk • contribs) 06:20, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

It's a nice image, very clear. My concern is that it's rather similar to the image in the infobox. I wonder if someone with a bit more time and motivation than I'm left with at present might like to crop it for use as a potential replacement for the infobox pic. It's sharper, has slightly better color, and shows the plume— a feature that is very typical of Everest. Rivertorch (talk) 06:50, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Added to infobox. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rdevany (talk • contribs) 05:56, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Good. I still think it would benefit from a crop, though. Anybody agree? Disagree? Rivertorch (talk) 17:24, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

I'll do that for you. Because you've never posted in a talk page before, I would like you to know that it is a general guideline to sign your posts by putting four tildes (The Quirky Kitty (talk) 04:20, 26 December 2012 (UTC)) at the end. This way, everyone knows who you are. I'm not offended, and I'm sure you're editing in good faith, but I just you to be aware. Thanks.

Oops. Even I forgot to sign my post! The signature ended up being in the wrong place, where I wanted~~~~. Regardless, I finished uploading the cropped image.The Quirky Kitty (talk) 05:54, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, it looks great! Rivertorch (talk) 07:26, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps QK's comment was directed to me too. I'm kind of new to this and appreciate the tip. I took the photo last month, and liked the perspective and that it shows the South Summit, Hillary Step, Yellow Band (Cambrian marble) and 2nd Step fairly well. The crop looks good to me. I appreciate the team work here. Rdevany (talk) 07:42, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Don't sweat the signature; newbies never sign until they're asked to, and that's because the wiki interface doesn't prompt them, which it should. And sometimes even experienced editors mess up the indentations and confuse people about which editor they're replying to. (Polite cough.) Lots of good advice here. Anyway, thanks for uploading the photo. I'm just a little jealous because I'd like to see Everest in person someday. Rivertorch (talk) 18:54, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. And to Rdevany, I changed the link I used to attribute you on the image I uploaded. It used to be a redlink to the user page for Rdevay on the Commons, but I fixed it so it links to your page in the English Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Quirky Kitty (talk • contribs) 06:10, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, and I understand that it is very easy to forget to sign! (facepalm) The Quirky Kitty (talk) 06:19, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Further reading comment

Hi everybody,

I've been checking this section and it's been nice to see Jon's Krakauer book about the disaster happened in May '96, anyway, I think it'd be fair that if Krakauer's book is in here, there should also be Anatoli Boukreev's book in the list.

There were some controversial comments in Krakauer's book about Anatoli's attemp to rescue some of the expeditioners as well as some actions taken by Scott Fisher. Anatoli's book is his version of the facts and a response to Krakauer's book.

Information about Boukreev's book:

BOUKREEV, Anatoli; DEWALT, G. Weston. The Climb: Tragic ambitions on Everest. Saint Martin's Press, June 28th, 1997. ISBN: 0312168144

Thanks for your time and dedication! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerardstil (talk • contribs) 02:53, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello, and thanks for the suggestion. If you have access to the book and have some specific thoughts about what would make the account of what happened more neutral, I encourage you to be bold and introduce such changes, and cite the source for your changes. Happy editing! AdventurousSquirrel (talk) 03:14, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Bizarre statement

Quote from the article: "if one was to measure the tallest mountain on Earth from base to peak above sea level [not from the Earth's core to the peak] including snow and ice, K2 would own this title" - how are we supposed to understand this internaly contradictory claim? What is it then - from base, or above sea level? - beacuse it can't be both simultaneously. Besides that - K2 is 8611, so stating that K2 surpasses Everest in height (including ice cap) is to say that this ice cap is 8848-8611=237 which is obviously flat our preposterous.--145.237.124.27 (talk) 08:07, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

It would seem that "base to peak" here refers to the height from the foot of the mountain to the peak, i.e. local relief, "base" not being not being sea level. Everest is 8848m elevation, but its base on the Tibertan Plateau is around 4200–5200m above sea level, meaning the "base to peak" height is only around 3650–4650m. K2 has a lower base elevation than Everest, substantially low enough that the vertical relief of K2 is more than that of Everest. In other words, the slopes of K2 are taller than Everest's, from top to bottom bur Everest is taller in terms of prominence which is measured differently. As far as Wiki goes, the various means of identifying mountain heights is fairly technical, and it's not always appropriate to include them all, as it leads to confusion without a glossary to help aid the reader. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 13:44, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

You're mistaken. The only thing we're disscussing here is the K2's ice-cap thickness. It just cannot possibly be as thick as 240 m. As to the proper interpretation of his claim: let's put the sentence in its proper context: "This height is based on the actual highest point of rock and not on the snow and ice covering it (if one was to measure the tallest mountain on Earth from base to peak above sea level [not from the Earth's core to the peak] including snow and ice, K2 would own this title)". That aside, even if our confused collegue had meant just the sheer height of the boths peaks' walls, he would have been wrong anyway, because e.g. the Kangshung Face (i.e. east face) of Everest is even taller than the walls (e.g. north face, being ~3200 m) of K2 (I suggest you take a good look at both, on - say - google maps / terrain mode), the Rupal Face (i.e. southern) of Nanga Parbat is acctually circa 4600 m and thus often quoted as having the tallest wall in the world, Dhaulagiri's west face is comparable and Rakaposhi rises an astonishing 6000 m (6 km) from the valley flor to the summit uninterrupted and very steeply - among other tremendous peaks. Anyway, the statement has been removed in the meantime from what I can see, so I guess this discussion is no longer necessary. Greetings.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.171.197.14 (talk • contribs)

There was nothing in the sentence suggesting to me that it implies the ice cap to be 240m thick.. that appears to be your own unique interpretation of it. You applied a calculation using full elevations, the article stated "base to peak" which is a different measurement. So I don't think I was mistaken in my interpretation of what the sentence aimed to express, even if the statement was incorrect per se about K2 having greater height than Everest in a base to peak comparison. I'll have to take your disputed at face value (no pun intended) though, as without providing sources there's nothing solid to go on. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 17:31, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

There's no need for fancy "sources", just very basic math skills are required. Google maps -> terrain - check and see for yourself. As far as the said statement is considered - no matter how one wants to interpret it, it's false and sounds like some sort of those ludicrous popular rumours / urban legends.--46.171.197.14 (talk) 20:50, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

At the risk of thickening the plot, consider Mount McKinley's base-to-height figures. Rivertorch (talk) 18:12, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

No thickening. Rivertorch is right. I removed the statement hours ago, because it's wrong. —hike395 (talk) 00:23, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Removing some extra images

While we're discussing images, I'd like to say that I think there are too many images in this article, and that some of them are unnecessary because they are more decorative than informative. Examples of this inculde:

Placed in the "Early Expeditions" section

File:Everest 3D.gif and File:The Northern Part of Everest 3D version 1.gif These two animated GIFs are placed in the section "First successful ascent by Tenzing and Hillary" and consume a lot of bandwidth, something that people with slower Internet connections would not be fond of.

In the section "2005: Helicopter landing." This one may be debatable.	In the section "Supplemental oxygen"
In the same section.	This I feel is debatable, too, as the article may look plain without it.

As well as some or all of the photos in the image gallery.

I would like to know what others think about this, as I feel it might be too radical to just start removing images without discussing it. I'd rather not push the limits of being bold. The Quirky Kitty (talk) 07:48, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Some of these I agree with.. not all. The animated 3D GIFs certainly are too heavy at 5mb and 6mb, so removing one or both is probably for the best. The sunset photo doesn't add too much to the page. The Rombok Gompa view should be kept - we need to bear in mind that Everest in a religious entity to the Tibetan monks, and that is a notable point. I think the temple below the mountain represents this quite well in an unassuming manner. The Drukair2 flight image is a Featured Picture - its use on this article is probably the best place it can be, given the quality and recognition it has received from the community - removing it is not very wise - in fact it would make a better photo for the main infobox than the one we have, which is nice but does not convey the epic size of Everest as there are no surrounding mountains to draw comparison to, solo photos of mountains are pointless if we can't gauge the sheer scale of it - the FP shows the massif beautifully. The two panoramas add interest to what would otherwise be half an article of text.. this gets very boring. An article can't have too many images, but if it is very long it needs breaking up with imagery so that there's always something media-wise in view when scrolling down - people hate walls of text more than too many images. The Everestpanoram helps us see Everest in the Himalayas line and how height it stands above everything else from ground level, instead of just stand alone photos that leave no form of comparison. The EverestMosaic does the same but from above instead of level, and lets us see "into" the Tibetan mountains and understand how Everest lies in the midst of the Himalaya.. again photos of the mountain alone don't convey this and neither can text, nor can maps provide as clear a perspective. The main problem with the photos is their placing in the article.. being too scattered they lose impact. The article really needs a good clean up and images placed logically. An article about Everest should be able achieve GA or FA standards with some loving care. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 04:57, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Just to note, I reverted the removal of the images (just to give me a working point), and have performed a batch of adjustments and tweaks. The ordering of sections, the clutter, I see this was a former FA, I think it has been bombarded with so many contribs over the years that it has lost coherency. I've tried to clean up readability rather than address the actual text. By reordering the sections to prioritise the mountain and its history above the manmade feat of climbing it, I hope that helps. There is no reason for readers to have to wade through a ton of trivial "firsts" in order to find out about the mountain itself as a geological interest not a tourist spot. As with many Wiki articles "popular culture" seems to have over-written the essential facts pertaining to the science of things. I think sections now relate better to what Everest is, its early discovery, its physical make up and environment.. then we can have the less-notable details about wannabe heroes trashing, shitting or dropping dead on its slopes every year for the sake of personal ego. If that list of trivia keeps growing, I think it needs moving to its own article, to help refocus this article for FA standards again. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 06:18, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I concur with the general thrust of your comments and found myself nodding in agreement at many of the specific points you've raised. A couple of the changes you've made with the images I'm less than thrilled with. First, the infobox image. While the one you swapped in is fully deserving of its Featured Pic status and most probably should have a place in the article (and really ought to illustrate Himalayas as well), I don't think it's a good choice for the infobox. With its depiction of so many peaks, plus the added distraction of the clouds in the foreground, the visual clutter is considerable and the subject of the article—Mount Everest—becomes only one of several components (albeit the central one). Context of adjacent mountains is important, but not in the infobox. The previous image, which was added following a discussion on this page late last year, focuses on the mountain itself, which is appropriate. I'd suggest restoring the recent infobox image and moving the new one (see suggestion below).

Second, I think the "last rays of sunlight" pic is a good one. (You seem to have added it only to take it away again, or am I misreading the versions?) It's an awesome photo (and I don't use that adjective lightly) that conveys the beauty and majesty of a mountain that is too often considered only in quantitative terms. True, it doesn't illustrate the Geology section particularly well, but I think it deserves a place elsewhere (maybe in the preceding Comparisons section, maybe somewhere else). I'd support moving the new infobox pic with its clouds and multiple peaks to the Geology section, which is now way too gray without an image to break it up.

I ran a preview with these suggestions and thought it looked good, but I figured it would be worthwhile to discuss it with you and maybe get opinions from others before clicking Save. For the record, the two infobox images discussed above are these:

Rivertorch (talk) 07:32, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi, yes I readded all the pics removed by Quirky Kitty then began my own mini clean-up, which led to the sunray photo being removed again. Yes, it is a nice image.. but it really is just "nice", the problem is that it doesn't highlight anything notable. I think a number of mountains, e.g. K2 if I'm not mistaken, have a red glowing peak like fire during sunset, so it wasn't unique to this article either. That said, I think the article is in a period of change.. I've shifted a lot of the material around to bring a sense of logical readability to the flow of the text, and adjusted images to better suit sections, as best I could. The fact that the world's most notable mountain fails to meet the highest standards.. GA or FA, puzzles me, especially when we have a number of WikiProjects with members who should be able to dedicate their efforts to improving and maintaining such an article as GA or FA. As a member of WikiProject Military History I know those members take pride in getting articles to GA/FA and keeping it that way. Why not other projects? No disrespect to members of Mountains or any other project, but that is the purpose and general idea of WikiProjects, to maintain articles under the project banner's scope. As for the FP photo swap I did, feel free to change - only the cropped photo that was there is very uninspiring, and lacks character and imagination based on my belief that a photo of a mountain all by itself with no range in the background, or around it for scale comparison, leaves the viewer thinking "so what?" Maybe the Featured Pic could be cropped like this other one was, to focus more on Everest but without as much loss of scale and beauty. The other picture looks like it has been bloomed and had a cool blue filter added in some photo editor, making it look very tacky. Just my 2c though. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 04:41, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Hmm. The color looks okay on my monitor, but I'll take your word for it. I found a couple other possibles on Commons: this one, which I like because it's very focused on its subject and has great depth of field, and this one, which offers more perspective by including more of the surrounding terrain. Both depict the North Face, which is arguably the less notable side of the mountain, but I don't really think that's a problem (and I could argue it the other way). Curious to know what you think.

As for the sunset pic—yeah, it's a cliché, I suppose, but it's a beautiful cliché, and I think we're allowed to inflict a little beauty on our coldly rational articles from time to time. There's an even nicer alternative, which is desperately in need of cropping but otherwise might work.

WikiProject Military History is the gold standard. If even a quarter of WikiProjects were as active and populated by such dedicated editors, we'd probably have put Britannica out of business years ago. (Incidentally, something on this talk page is having a bad effect on my browser's performance. I thought it was the two gifs, so I set them as links instead of inline images, but now I'm not so sure. Whatever it is, I've never encountered it before on any talk page.) Rivertorch (talk) 05:44, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

The first picture File:Everest North Face toward Base Camp Tibet Luca Galuzzi 2006.jpg is a real beauty, admittedly I have used it in my custom "mountains" desktop theme, it shows the Three Steps too, which are a bit concealed by the stream of cloud below the summit in the second photo. The glowing yellow band and peak in that other photo is.. wow.. the only weakness is the thick cloud across the middle, cropped it would make the bottom half of the picture just a grey blur, which might make it look worse per rule of thirds (speaking as an avid amateur photographer and Photoshop user)? I'm not sure if the North face is much less notable.. perhaps as a climbing route it is less popular, but it is where Mallory fell and died, bless him, and that was important tragic event in the history of the mountain. I suppose it depends on your POV what view you favour. I think the slow page load may be a result of all the stuff up top - lots of project banners, assessment history, etc. being transcribed, as well as all the images being used and discussed, although I should note that it isn't affecting me. Yup, Milhist is the top project for getting results, and inspiring topical focus, I can't think of many highly active projects apart from Film, U.S., LGBT, and possibly Christianity, but each of those do cover a lot of ground and represent large audiences. Still, got to be proud of any project that is achieving something seeing as many projects are virtually dead in the water. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 06:20, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Assuming we don't need a perfect 4:3 ratio, the image can be cropped without putting the clouds quite at the bottom. I'll try to get to that over the next day or two. Imho, the north and south faces are both highly notable but the north is generally more photogenic. Rivertorch (talk) 18:19, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Everest from Khala Phthar

Took this photo when I was there. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 06:07, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Have seen a few from that angle, as that's where the Mount Everest webcam is situated. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 11:45, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

decimal point instead of comma. by Davf76 on May 3, 2013

Hi all, the text: "The summit of Chimborazo in Ecuador is 2,168 m (7,113 ft) farther from the Earth's centre (6,384.4 km (3,967.1 mi)) than that of Everest (6,382.3 km (3,965.8 mi)), because the Earth bulges at the Equator."

should read: "The summit of Chimborazo in Ecuador is 2.168 m (7.113 ft) farther from the Earth's centre (6,384.4 km (3,967.1 mi)) than that of Everest (6,382.3 km (3,965.8 mi)), because the Earth bulges at the Equator."

Davide — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davf76 (talk • contribs) 22:39, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Main pic

An aerial view of the southern side of the Mount Everest massif. Mount Everest's summit is seen immediately above Lhotse's south face (centre), which is connected to the long ridge of Nuptse (left, in shade).

I've changed the main pic from the one on the right to the beautiful one of the north face, which someone commended above. I did this because the old main pic, despite being a featured pic, only shows the summit region of the peak and is rather misleading, in that many people will assume that the peak in front of it − Lhotse − is actually Everest (I certainly did until I took a much closer look!). I have, however, kept the pic in the article, as it's useful topographically, but have altered the caption (from "Mount Everest seen from the south from an aircraft") and moved it further down the article. Ericoides (talk) 15:19, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

The new pic is fine. If Everest is the tallest mountain in the world, how did you confuse a much shorter one for it? I believe that's Lhotse to the right with the South Col between them, and Nuptse to the front, extending west from Lhotse, with the west ridge coming from the left of Everest. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 16:25, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Lhotse south face

To clarify what I meant, from the aerial pic it looks as if the summit of Everest is part of the mass of Lhotse's south face (see pic, right), which is directly below it, i.e. it's a trick of perspective. Nuptse runs to the left of Lhotse, not in front of it. And you can't see the South Col from this view as it's hidden behind Lhotse. From your analysis, saying that Lhotse is on the right, I think you are making the same mistake as I did from the thumb, thinking that Lhotse is part of Everest!) In fact, look at this pic; it makes very clear what's what in the view, with Nuptse the flat, pinnacled ridge on the left, as here (this isn't Everest's west ridge).

Of course, all of this should have come out in the featured pic discussion; if it had, the pic imo would not have gained its featured status, as Everest itself barely features in what is really a study of Lhotse and Nuptse. Ericoides (talk) 16:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I used http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGKjbH5WzfM to get my bearings. Around 1:03 the animation swings around Nuptse and Lhoste and I see how in the FP that Lhotse blends in so well in front of Everest that is appears to be one mountain. The one to the right of Lhotse may be Baruntse, if this map http://skithehimalayas.com/files/2009/04/baruntse-map.jpg is anything to go by. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 17:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Great. 1.03 is your man! Ericoides (talk) 17:58, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I've just found this version of the FP pic, which helpfully identifies all of the peaks. It states that the "Baruntse" peak is Shartse. Ericoides (talk) 21:14, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Interesting. Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgRQ27PZGLs it's at 1:12 also. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 08:42, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

First Winter Ascent is incorrect. Should read as follows

The article states that Kukuczka and Zawada made the first winter ascent. Kukuczka was not part of this expedition as his son was born a few weeks earlier. Zawada was the expedition leader. The correct info is as below

• 1980 – First winter ascent, by Krzysztof Wielicki and Leszek Cichy

Ep320 (talk) 11:23, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Done I also dug up a couple of sources that show both names, as the existing source only showed Wielicki. --ElHef (Meep?) 15:35, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Mistake, Bear Grylls "Notable Climbing Records"

The date to the left says 1988, it should say 1998. — Preceding unsigned comment added by StatusRed (talk • contribs) 15:04, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

 Done – Thanks, but it needs referencing also. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 15:46, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Discovery section

So did no one in Nepal or Tibet know about Everest before the Europeans came along? Because this is how that section makes it out to be and I doubt that. If you can spot a peak from hundreds of miles away I'm guessing the locals already 'discovered' it many years before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.49.84 (talk) 13:25, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

In the intro it states ". Although Tibetans had called Everest "Chomolungma" for centuries, Waugh was unaware of this because Tibet and Nepal were closed to foreigners at the time thus preventing any attempts to obtain local names." so I propose that the Discovery section be renamed Discovery by Europeans or something similar, maybe something could be added about the mountain before Europeans came along and 'discovered' it as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.49.84 (talk) 13:30, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 27 September 2013

Please add the following to the list of Notable climbing records

• 2013 – First woman amputee to reach the summit, by Arunima Sinha.

Please use the following as the source of reference.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-22751294

Thank you Rahulsingh.eco (talk) 16:55, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I've added it to Timeline of climbing Mount Everest#2013_2, as we recently had to clean up this article, because it was becoming too full of climber records and less about Everest itself, and seems to be getting a few record attempts added again. Notable climbs in this article really need to be about historical firsts, relating to pioneering attempts and achievements. Sinha still earns her deserved place in the linked Timeline list, however. Cheers. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 19:25, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Notable climbing records request

On May 5, 2013 a Russian climber named Valery Rozov on the North Wall BASE jumped with a wingsuit at approximately 23,600 feet.<ref name=Cooper>{{cite web|last=Cooper|first=Tarquin|title=Valery Rozov BASE Jumps From Mt Everest|url=http://www.redbull.com/en/adventure/stories/1331592877474/valery-rozov-base-mount-everest|work=RedBull.com|publisher=Red Bull|accessdate=17 July 2013}}</ref> Should this story be added to the Notable climbing records section of the article? If not here should it be added to the Timeline of climbing Mount Everest article?

Though it was disputed at the time, I thought that Lydia Bradey's ascent in 1988 was now accepted as the first female ascent without supplementary oxygen. It says so in Wikipedia so it has to be correct, [[1]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by RexJacobus (talk • contribs) 02:10, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 5 October 2013

The height of Mt Everest written in the page is incorrect. It is written 8848 meters but it is 8850 meters. Devansh200125 (talk) 14:56, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Just your say-so isn't good enough to make an edit request. Wiki requires reliable sources. Please learn how Wiki works by reading the help pages linked on your talk page. Cheers, Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 15:25, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

 Not done I have seen that figure before and I think there are several sources that support 8850. Most give 8848 so we would need a consensus in addition to RSs. Thanks Devansh200125 for the suggestion. --RacerX¹¹ Talk to me^{Stalk me} 15:30, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

The 8850m elevation came from a GPS survey of the peak in 1999 (see here), and is accepted by National Geographic (see here). As far as I can tell, neither Nepal nor China have accepted that height (see here). —hike395 (talk) 19:57, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Before any changes are made, I would first find out if different geodetic datums were used by the studies that determined the 8848 meter and 8850 meter elevations for the summit of Mount Everest. The two-meter difference in elevation might be the result of different studies using different geodetic datums. Also, the differing elevations might reflect the use of different methodologies to calculated each proposed elevation of its summit. A person would have to carefully evaluate the specific geodetic datums and techniques used to calculate each of the two proposed elevations before which one, if any, can truly be stated to be the correct elevation of the summit of Mount Everest. Frankly, given the overall height of Mount Everest, a difference of two-meters in the two proposed elevations of its summit is a rather meaningless difference for purposes of Wikipedia and nothing worth getting bent out of shape over.Paul H. (talk)

It should be noted that the 1999 measurement is not the latest and greatest. In 2005 an extensive survey was conducted by the Chinese government which confirmed the 8848 elevation. They claimed it to be "most accurate and precise measurement to date". This is explained in the Measurement section of the article. --RacerX¹¹ Talk to me^{Stalk me} 01:21, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

The problem is that neither the article nor the news articles that are cited as sources for it provide any information about whether Chinese government used the same geodetic datum / model in 2005 that the National Geographic Society did for their 1999 measurements. If they are different, the Chinese government's measurement of the elevation of the summit of Mount Everest is the correct elevation relative to whatever geodetic datum that they used and the National Geographic Society's measurement of the elevation of the summit of Mount Everest is the correct elevation relative to the WGS 84 (EGM96) geoid model. Given the 2 meter difference, both measured summit elevations could be correct relative to the specific and different geodetic datum that were used to calculate each of the elevations of Mount Everest's summit. Presumably in 2005, the Chinese government used the officially recognized geodetic datum for regional topographic mapping in their measurements. This would mean that the 2005 summit elevation is most likely the official and legally "correct" elevation for Mount Everest's summit. Someone needs to find a source that documents the geodetic datum that the Chinese government used in their 2005 measurements and states that it is the officially recognized geodetic datum for regional mapping. Paul H. (talk) 02:23, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

The measurement quoted should be followed by "(2005 survey)" for each instance in wiki BlueMist (talk) 22:33, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

@User:NY Amateur. It's not a common practice to do that in an encyclopedia within the space of one article, as it appears verbose and is clumsy to read; such repetitions are not normally used beyond the first instance some detail is given. It's a bit like using "National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA)" the first time it's mentioned on a page then only "NASA" thereafter. In this case the height determined in the 2005 survey will be explained, then there is no need to reiterate "(2005 survey)" each and every time the same height is given, as it would look unprofessional. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 00:08, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, Ma®©usBritish, I wasn't clear by "each instance in wiki". The first mention of the current estimate of the height in each article needs to refer to the date of estimate. This is needed because the true annual height of Everest with ice is variable due to seasons, climate, and geology. The error of measurement is an added factor. BlueMist (talk) 01:08, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining, I think I understand now. Could you possibly list some examples of other articles you had in mind, please? Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 01:15, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Googling site:wikipedia.org "29,029 ft" yields 15 pages of hits. Hmmm. How about just doing it for this main article to avoid reader confusion over the 1999 Western scientific consensus? BlueMist (talk) 01:50, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

If a Wiki-editor intends to make a reasonable request then it is normal for them to provide the information or links relating to their request, not to cheekily expect others to have to use Google and do the work for them, especially as Google results may be older than current versions of Wiki pages... I'm certainly not wading through 15 Google results in order to make guesses when you could simply provide specific links. I've already explained why it is not necessary for this article, background pertaining to the 2005 result is given in detail in the Mount Everest#Measurement section so I don't see how there can be any "reader confusion". Once again, you'll have to go into more specific detail as to where you think the problem lies in the article and why you believe this is the case, we can't address ambiguous concerns. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 03:18, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

@ MarcusBritish: "cheekily"? This is the second time here that you failed to understand a simple sentence. "15 pages of hits" means that there are hundreds of related wikipedia articles to maintain. Why can't you just do the suggested googling for yourself before you insult other editors? BlueMist (talk) 13:56, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Because I don't feel compelled to, whether it be 15 articles or 15 pages. Would you buy a dog then bark yourself? Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 00:20, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

A paper by Chijun Zhang estimates the height of Everest as 8847.82 meters (29,028 ft). The paper is:

Zhang, C., 1997, Determination of geoid and elevation of the Mt. Qomolangma and discussion on the role of vertical gravity gradient. Chinese Science Bulletin. vol .42 no. 20, pp. 1723-1725. Paul H. (talk) 22:27, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

First Winter Ascent

For all infobox mountains should add "first winter ascent" Globetrotter1918 (talk) 01:40, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Notable climbing records request (another)

There is a mistake in the following statement "The next summiting was on May 23, 1956 by Ernst Schmied and Juerg Marmet.[62] This was followed by Dölf Reist and Hans-Rudolf von Gunten on May 24, 1957.[62] After this, the next summiting was not until Jim Whittaker and Nawang Gombu on May 1, 1963"

On 25 May 1960， Chinese expedition team, Wang Fuzhou, Qu Yinhua and Gongbu became the first to reach the summit of Mount Everest via the north face.

See http://www.cctv.com/english/special/tibet/20091014/103993.shtml — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.206.25.161 (talk) 10:12, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

First? Really?

• "The goal of reaching Everest's summit for the first time was initially taken up by tenacious British mountaineers."

I don't believe this. Is the argument that people from Nepal and Tibet never tried to reach the summit over the hundreds (thousands?) of years they have occupied this part of the world? This is world history, as told by Westerners. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 16:42, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

True, but there's a big difference between recorded history and speculative history. You could make this claim about many things.. who was really first to the poles, or to cross various deserts, to sail certain seas? How did the Native Americans and Aboriginals get to Australia and America and evolve apart from westerners, would that not make their descendants the true "first" crossings? All we can do as historians is go by what we know, not what we believe. Bear in mind that it is still unknown if Mallory and Irvine ever reached the summit and died on descent in 1924, and so we credit Hillary and Norgay in 1953 – we could be wrong, but until someone finds the camera Mallory had, we will never truly know. The same goes for much of history where there is a complete lack of evidence, only speculation. We're not here to theorise, however, that's not what an encyclopedia does. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 17:54, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Well put, but I wonder if we might say something like this instead: "The first recorded efforts to reach Everest's summit were made by British mountaineers". That would remove the claim that the British were the first to have the goal of summiting (which, even if there's a source that explicitly says it, seems questionable, goals being rather abstract things). And "tenacious British mountaineers" does sound a bit rah-rah, even though it's certainly true. Rivertorch (talk) 04:21, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

I agree that "goals" can be speculative and the word "tenacious" is somewhat WP:PEACOCK/puffery sounding. Might be worth tweaking it a little to focus on the actual historical event rather than speculation of "man's hope" to be first to the top, as it were, and less rah-rah, as you say. No doubt that pioneers are tenacious and have balls of steel, but no need to go overboard. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 04:42, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

I've made the change. And let me just say: as someone who once was obsessed with Everest history and who still suffers from mild Anglophilic tendencies, it wasn't painless. :( Rivertorch (talk) 16:11, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Haha, bless.. nevermind, at least it's more neutrally worded now. You should try being an Anglophile and a Bonapartist, like me.. it'd make your head spin! :D Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 16:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

My goodness. If you'd been around in 1815, would you have cheered or mourned? Rivertorch (talk) 19:31, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Still, I think there is plenty of fact, for example within wikipedia articles about history of mountaineering, that show mountaineering and conquering summits was generally done by rich people from remote and too flat regions of the world, when rhw locals were living in the valleys and were spending hundreds or thousands of years without imagining one second that their summits could be climbed, or could be just mountains and not gods and goddesses. Not all summits conquerors were English, they were also French, Italian or German aristocrats sometimes, still, even if you take only the Alps where the only local climbers were the crystal workers, it's many times an Englishman spending holidays there, who made the first ascents etc. Same phenomenon when you see that 3/4 of the best French alpinists are not locals, rather they are from Paris region and they learned to climb at Fontainebleau and love the alpine region as holidays playground. Your latter wording is still better though..:-) Akseli9 (talk) 22:53, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Indeed, but I don't know the history of mountaineering and don't pretend to, which is why my initial answer to Liz focuses more on her argument in the context of who was "first" to conceive the idea of climbing Everest, rather that their nationality. I believe Liz was concerned that the article puts too much emphasis on the British being "first" to want to conquer Everest, and that there surely must have been local Tibetans who wanted to and tried in the centuries before Brits ever set eyes on the mountain. I don't doubt it.. you can't "find" a mountain that people having been living near for donkey's years and can see from miles away, but it's not recorded that Tibetans ever made plans, only that they worship it, so we really can't prove it. We have records of the the earliest known expeditions and surveys of the Himalayas, and given that they were British-led we can assume those Brits discussed the earliest known "goal" to reach the top, even if those earliest Brits did not succeed, even if other nations tried in the years between the 1st British expedition and the 9th.. but I agree that the rewording is better, making it clearer that they actually made the first physical attempts which is more notable than ambition alone. Ma®©usBritish^{chat} 14:32, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

No sane person is going to attempt to climb a mountain like Everest unless they have a pretty good reason to do so, and until Mountaineering became a hobby, and then sport, few of the locals would have had any desire to go any nearer to the mountain than they had to. The British, who for all practical purposes originated the sport of mountaineering, climbed Everest for the simple reason they climbed so many other mountains, it was a challenge, it was in today's terms a 'fun' thing to do - at least in their eyes, and because it was there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.147.13 (talk) 10:19, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

No mention of Maurice Wilson?

Maurice_Wilson, see also Who climbed Everest first? HR Mitchell 18:25, 11 March 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moondancer (talk • contribs)

• Probably deserves to be mentioned although any claim of him achieving the first ascent seems extremely doubtful given his inadequate mountaineering experience and attempting it solo. RedWolf (talk) 04:14, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

2006: Controversy

I would like to Edit some information about that Controversy part , how can i edit it ? or is there anyone who can help me with it ? The edit will be about what hapened with Maxime Chaya during that time. Thank you in Advance. J.Hassoun (talk) 13:35, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

• What information exactly would you like to add? Do you have a reliable source to backup the new information? As long as you cite the source of your new information, feel free to add it yourself although please be sure to phrase the information in your own words. If you list your source here and provide some ideas of what information you want to add, I or someone else could assist in adding it for you. Thanks for using the talk page to discuss new information. RedWolf (talk) 04:05, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

The information i want to add are the Information from Maxime Chaya personaly (the Lebanese adventurer who was there).Is it possible to write here what i want to add/change on that part so You can check it before i post it? J.Hassoun (talk) 17:55, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes. Propose your changes, include reliable sources, and other editors will be glad to look it over. Rivertorch (talk) 21:36, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

I will rewrite the "2006:Controversy" part so if its possible to let me know if i can Edit it.Thank You.

Much of this controversy was captured by the Discovery Channel while filming the television program Everest: Beyond the Limit. A crucial decision affecting the fate of Sharp is shown in the program, where an early returning climber, Lebanese adventurer Maxime Chaya is descending from the summit and radios to his base camp manager (Russell Brice) that he has found a frostbitten and unconscious climber in distress. Chaya is unable to identify Sharp, who had chosen to climb solo without any support and so did not identify himself to other climbers. The base camp manager assumes that Sharp is part of a group that has already calculated that they must abandon him, and informs his lone climber that there is no chance of him being able to help Sharp by himself. As Sharp's condition deteriorates through the day and other descending climbers pass him, his opportunities for rescue diminish: his legs and feet curl from frostbite, preventing him from walking; the later descending climbers are lower on oxygen and lack the strength to offer aid; time runs out for any Sherpas to return and rescue him. Most importantly, Sharp's decision to climb without support left him with no margin for recovery. As this debate raged, on 26 May, Australian climber Lincoln Hall was found alive, after being declared dead the day before. He was found by a party of four climbers (Dan Mazur, Andrew Brash, Myles Osborne and Jangbu Sherpa) who, giving up their own summit attempt, stayed with Hall and descended with him and a party of 11 Sherpas sent up to carry him down. Hall later fully recovered. Similar actions have been recorded since, including on 21 May 2007, when Canadian climber Meagan McGrath initiated the successful high-altitude rescue of Nepali Usha Bista. Recognizing her heroic rescue, Major Meagan McGrath was selected as a 2011 recipient of the Sir Edmund Hillary Foundation of Canada Humanitarian Award, which recognizes a Canadian who has personally or administratively contributed a significant service or act in the Himalayan Region of Nepal.[110]J.Hassoun (talk) 18:15, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

In my opinion, that's too detailed and too long for this article. I'm also unclear on the source. What does the "110" in brackets signify? Rivertorch (talk) 05:38, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Its not too long..the text does exist on the page thats why there is 110 and there is a few adds to the original text. J.Hassoun (talk) 17:16, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 April 2014

Sections #1996 disaster and #2014 avalanche need to be updated to reflect 2014 Mount Everest avalanche: 1996 is now has the second-most deaths (recommend adding the bolded word: During the 1996 season, 15 people died while climbing on Mount Everest, then the highest number of fatalities in a single year in the mountain's history.), and More than 12 climbers were killed in the avalanche. can be changed to 16 climbers were killed and 9 were injured in the avalanche. based on the avalanche article, with appropriate sourcing brought in from that article. The latter section should also be expanded to include new information, but that's beyond the scope of the edit request. Thanks, 206.117.89.4 (talk) 09:48, 24 April 2014 (UTC) (User:Ansh666)

 Done, at least with the most basic info. Both sections need additional work. The 2014 avalanche section could and likely will be expanded sooner or later. The main article on the avalanche is beginning to flesh out nicely. Thanks --RacerX¹¹ Talk to me^{Stalk me} 10:08, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 May 2014

Please change "Higher Himalayan Sequence about 20 to 24 million years ago" to "Higher Himalayan Sequence about 22 to 26 million years ago" Due to the new evidence added to the geologic time scale. EvolutionistGeo (talk) 18:55, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --ElHef (Meep?) 19:06, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Youngest to reach summit

"2010 – Youngest to reach the summit, by Jordan Romero (13-year-old)". But in May 2014 Malavath Poorna, also 13, has been reported as the youngest ever, e.g. [2]> Martinevans123 (talk) 15:02, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

WP:ENGVAR

This edit established the page's usage as British English. Kindly maintain it consistently, pending a new consensus. — LlywelynII 16:53, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Tibetan "name"

I have no real bone in this fight, but it's certainly off-putting that the Tibetan transcription in the lead sentence doesn't match the transcription in the infobox and neither matches Wylie which is generally the default. Since WP:MOS-TIBET doesn't exist and WP:MOS-ZH doesn't touch this, we have to fall back on WP:PLACE. That says (in a nutshell) that in a situation like this, we can explain all three somewhere but we should just pick one as the default for general use within the article. Unless someone has some very strong arguments to make w/r/t why Tibetan pinyin is suddenly the go-to, the standard transcription is presently Chomolungma per ngram and Google Books. (For what it's worth, scholar does prefer the pinyin. I'm betting because of PRC-based research papers but might be wrong.) — LlywelynII 16:39, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Tibetan romanisation is a bit of a sticky wicket. The closest thing to an accepted standard is, as you say, the Wylie system. Even then, note that some scholars use a modified Wylie which harmonises it with IAST (thus, Everest's Tibetan name might be transcribed jo-mo-glaṅ-ma). More problematic, Wylie is a transliteration of written Tibetan which includes many letters that have since become silent or changed sounds. Most writers refrain from using Wylie in running text, especially when writing for a general audience. Instead, something closer to a phonetic transcription is used. Here, there is simply no standard that prevails. The only standard that even a fraction of English-language scholars have adopted is THL Simplified Phonetic Transcription. The THL system is a slightly simplified version of a phonetic system previously developed by Nicolas Tournadre; both are approximately the same as the Wylie transliteration with silent letters removed. Everest's name would be Jomolangma (or Jomo Langma, as the article currently says) in the THL system or Jhomolangma in the older Tournadre system. Tournadre's system, if you know a few basic rules, does a pretty good job of indicating how to pronounce the word in Standard Tibetan. Ideally, I'd like to see Wikipedia adopt a slightly enhanced version of Tournadre's system, but that's probably quixotic because I'm the only one who uses that.

Tibetan Pinyin spellings (such as Qomolangma) have gained a bit of currency for place names because they are used by the Chinese government on official maps that include romanisations. For the same reason, I believe they've been picked up by the UN for the maps they produce. However, a lot of people object to them because they are often quite unfamiliar in appearance and sometimes do a poor job of implying an approximately acceptable pronunciation.

My suggestion for Wikipedia has been to try to find familiar conventional spellings for article titles wherever possible, rather than imposing consistent use of any system. That's for article titles – it's not 100% obvious to me that the same logic applies when we're referring to it as an alternate name in an article (such as this one) with a different title. After all, when we give an article a title, we are basically saying, this is the English-language name for this thing. Shigatse is the English-language name for a town in Tibet. But, in the case of the Mount Everest, the English-language name is Mount Everest. We might wish to take a different approach to how we give readers a piece of information about what it is called in another language. In some contexts, the simplest approach might be simply to give an IPA transcription of the name.

I don't have strong feelings about this particular case. "Chomolungma" looks a little odd to me and is certainly not correct in any romanisation system, but apparently it's used in some sources outside of Wikipedia. It does a pretty decent job of implying how to pronounce the word (the third vowel would probably tend to be transcribed as /ɑ/, but it wouldn't surprise me if most speakers actually pronounce it more like /ʌ/). – Greg Pandatshang (talk) 00:33, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Official Height of Everest Suggestion

I realise that on this page and most others on Wikipedia, the height of Mount Everest is stated as 29,029 ft. However, I've found an article written that contradicts this. See http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/1673089/Height-of-Mount-Everest. This was an accurate survey taken by the United States National Geographic Society. I think if we find that this has a higher credibility than the traditional 29,029 ft., then we should consider a change. Leoesb1032 (talk) 17:54, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

The height of Mount Everest is 8848 m as measured. Any "stated" nonsense in feet is a mere conversion. Some of the confusion results from attempting to round measured metric values in converted Luddite units. Get rid of the obsolete Luddite units and stick with metres only. We don't need or want the confusion feet adds. This comment was added by Ametrica (talk) 14:03, 22 November 2014

mistake as to Great Trigonometric Survey

Waugh measured it at 29,000 feet on the nose. But that would look like an estimate, so to make it "seem" exact he added 2 feet and said it was 29,002. 24.44.243.38 (talk) 01:32, 19 March 2014 (UTC) captcrisis

• When I added the Naming section back in 2008, the 29,000 feet was mentioned and a note about the 2 feet being added on. Not sure why someone deleted as I thought it was useful information. I'll try and hunt down when it got deleted and see if the editor mentioned a reason. If not, I think I will add it back in unless someone else provides a reasonable objection here. Thanks for spotting it. RedWolf (talk) 04:27, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

RedWolf, did you ever find out why the original assertion was removed? IIRC, the point was disputed by somebody who thought it was a myth. Certainly, the source currently cited (which tracks back no further than an assertion in The People's Almanac of 1978, itself unsourced) seems rather thin; what you'd really want is for somebody to refer back to the figures used in the original Survey. Presumably, though, there were tolerances built in to some of the many variables, so that the figure can only have been an approximation (or, more likely, an average of several approximations - which might well have yielded a number as precise as 29,002). Best of all would be the memoir of one of the surveyors in which he relates the anecdote of how they came up with the published number. Not that this is worth very much of anybody's time, of course - but, at the moment, the evidence offered for the assertion made in the article isn't very strong IMO. Piers Fletcher (talk) 12:08, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Incorrect link

Under the geology of Mt. Everest, the second sentence of the second paragraph makes reference to "argillaceous laminae." The hyperlink directs to a Playstation game called "Argilla," not to the geological subject of argillaceous minerals. The correct link would be to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argillaceous_minerals, but I do not know how to make the correction. RLTopp (talk) 20:47, 3 October 2014 (UTC)Bob Topp, 3 October 2014

We will se whether there is argillaceous or Playstations below Everest when the railway tunnel is completed in 2020. TGCP (talk) 08:15, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 April 2015

The officially accepted height of the mount is 8850mtrs. Please make an appropriate amend. (source) http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/1673089/Height-of-Mount-Everest

117.215.69.242 (talk) 08:30, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

according to the Britannica article quoted in the request, the latest figure is 8,844.43m for the rock height. The section Surveys in the Wikipedia article describes the various measurements, including the 8,844.43 figure. Maybe the lead should be modified to summarise the Surveys section. Apuldram (talk) 10:22, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Not done: The article you cited shows the number we have currently, though if you want to modify the lead to include the surveys section as suggested by Apuldram feel free to reopen this request with your suggestion. Kharkiv07^Talk 13:12, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

West Ridge route

"Hornbein and Unsoeld were the first to attempt an ascent of the daunting West Ridge..." in May 1963 - Tom Hornbein article

Were there others? DadaNeem (talk) 02:43, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Reported image overlap

I undid an edit by AldezD which broke format and added a blank line. AldezD then explained that the edit was made because on some computers File:Sunny Everest.JPG overlapped with the header of the Name section. There was no overlap on any of my computers, using Windows 7 and Windows XP, the image and the header being separated by seven lines of text. However, to make sure, I have moved the image to a position where it shouldn't cause any problems. The image doesn't illustrate the text, so its position is not critical. Apuldram (talk) 19:50, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

For god's sake, please stop calling Qomolangma Everest

It is such a shame to call Qomolangma Everest, and it's even worse that when you want to search Qomolangma and only to find you are redirected to Everest. Qomolangma is its real name which is so holy and sacred. Everest has no meaning which is mere a name of some random man. I feel sorry for those people who insist calling Qomolangma Everest, even more sorry for the disrespect of WIKI to Qomolangma .

Please read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Everest#Name Akseli9 (talk) 15:21, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Sagarmatha is local people named it from nepal. Qomolungma is local people named it from tibet, Everest is enlgish people named it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.164.60.32 (talk) 07:06, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Sagarmatha is a neologism to get people to not use the Tibetan name. So... no, not really. Yep on it having an English name, though. — LlywelynII 09:50, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Avalance 2015

Avalance 2015 originated on Mount Pumori, there is no Kumori. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumori — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.23.168.240 (talk) 18:25, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

I wish I had saved it, but I ran across that spelling in a source someone cited at another article I think. Don't have it at my fingertips anymore, but I assumed it was a misspelling and found a different source with correct spelling . --RacerX¹¹ Talk to me^{Stalk me} 23:38, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Mount Everest Shrinkage

In the interest of not being part of an edit war, I'd like some other opinions on this section:

On 29 April 2015, data from the the European Sentinel-1A radar satellite indicated that Mount Everest may have shrunk from its original height by at least 2.5 cm (about 1 inch) due to the earthquake.

Both refs are news sources that discuss preliminary analysis of the satellite data. User:Le Grand Bleu has stated that if Everest really had shrunk, there would be a scientific article about it, and so these sources are no good and this section should be removed entirely (Bleu, if I'm misrepresenting your position, please correct me).

I feel that news sources are perfectly reliable, and the information is notable enough to include in the article. Thoughts, anyone? NekoKatsun (talk) 17:00, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

I agree that the news is sufficiently interesting and notable for inclusion. It takes ages for scientific articles to go through the stages needed for formal publication, so we should not assume that their current absence is significant. The references given above are verifiable. It would be a new procedure for Wikipedia to reject information because of absence of support from scientific sources. It would be a different matter if scientific articles contradicted the information. Then we should report both POV. Apuldram (talk) 18:01, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Today's (16 June) news media quote a report from China that the summit has moved 3cm (1.2") southwest, but the height is unchanged. Apuldram (talk) 21:32, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Think that could be added to the article without a fight from Bleu? Sure seems noteworthy to me. NekoKatsun (talk) 00:12, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

These are all preliminary unconfirmed reports with contradictory elements and are well within the margin of error for such measurements. If the mountain dropped one inch but rises .4 inch each year, then that trivial loss will be eliminated in 2-1/2 years anyway. And the Chinese report says there was no loss in elevation. So, I see no need to add trivial unconfirmed preliminary scientific findings from the popular press to the article. If a peer-reviewed article appears in a respected scientific journal, then fine. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:40, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't think we need a scientific paper reference for this (or, as some people might like, a secondary source reviewing several scientific papers). The references are OK to support a speculative claim. However, in the context of this article, I just don't think it is really worth including the information at all. Maybe it might fit in May 2015 Nepal earthquake as a minor anecdote? Thincat (talk) 07:14, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

References

5th furthest summit from the center of Earth?

That doesn't appear to be true, according to this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summits_farthest_from_the_Earth%27s_center. The source for that page indicates that it's actually the 28th furthest summit from the center of the Earth. See: http://mathscinotes.com/2015/01/the-farthest-mountaintops-from-the-center-of-the-earth/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.215.79.34 (talk) 15:11, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

The source for that page is a personal blog that was put in just a couple of weeks ago - and perusing the data table given, I'm not inclined to trust it (Coropuna's height data has a glaring error; how can we believe the others?). I'm much more willing to trust an NPR article that itself cites Professional Surveyor Magazine than I am somebody's blog. NekoKatsun (talk) 16:54, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Template:Zh

Better not to use it at all anywhere. (It incorrectly formats simplified and traditional characters as if they were separate languages; treats pinyin as a third language; uses up much too much space; and has a scriptor who doesn't care about the problem because he thinks it's only used on majority Chinese pages anyway.)

Certainly don't use it anywhere on this page: the Chinese that would go into the WP:LEAD (the only place where {{zh}} is somewhat suitable) is in an infobox and, per WP:MOS-ZH, shouldn't be duplicated. {{zh}} is completely inappropriate for use in running text. In particular, here, it was claiming that China had approved an official version of the name in traditional characters; it's done no such thing. Simplified characters are the only official characters within the PRC. You can't remove the t & s markers from the Chinese for Shèngmǔ Fēng because this isn't a Sinological journal and most readers won't understand which is which. If you object to the terse but effective formatting I introduced, just remove that alt name to the {{Chinese}} infobox. It'll be better than having unexplained hanzi in the middle of the English. Do keep the links to Wiktionary: why would you remove helpful functionality for the curious? — LlywelynII 10:01, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Penetration of Mount Everest into stratosphere

Height of tropopause varies with latitude. At Mount Everest latitudes (approx. 28°N), it is greater than 12 km. Standing at 8.848 km high, Mount Everest is considerably below tropopause/stratosphere. See http://www-das.uwyo.edu/~geerts/cwx/notes/chap01/tropo.html. Dupisingh (talk) 07:34, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 September 2015

Coolkid012397 (talk) 01:36, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 01:38, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Intro tone sounds comedic

Some of the intro sounds like it was written for a children's introductory book to Mt Everest. Things like "That honor goes to" and "greatest mystery". Can someone reword those to fit encyclopedic language? 128.84.124.133 (talk) 08:58, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 October 2015

Remove the Chinese name for Mount Everest. Tibet, East Turkestan, Manchuria, and Southern Mongolia are not part of China. Ruslanchagayev (talk) 07:59, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

 Not done There is apparent controversy regarding this matter. It would be best to leave the Chinese name in the article, as many others are covered in the article. samtar ^(msg) 08:05, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Contradictory Claims

In this section it is said Krakauer states oxygen should not be used, in order to prevent non-professionals from attempting the ascent. However, in the subsequent paragraph, it is written Krakauer criticizes the Russian professional for not using oxygen. Has anybody read the books? Can somebody explain such contradictory claims? Possibly, some context is needed.60.241.80.235 (talk) 18:30, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Forgot to log in: this last comment is mine.MarcelloPapirio (talk) 18:34, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

This is not contradictory. These are two completely different matters, two completely different subjects. 1) When everybody uses oxygen, the guide should use oxygen too. 2) If nobody uses oxygen, then only professional skilled climbers can climb Everest, thus not a single amateur climber anymore on Everest, thus no guides needed anymore. Akseli9 (talk) 17:24, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Is using term "Easiest route" appropriate for this Wikipedia topic?

Using the term "easiest route" for this and other mountains which require a high degree of time, technical expertise and preparation to climb seems to be an inappropriate phrase. The term in this article link to an article entitled "Normal route" which uses the term "easiest" but also contains words which perhaps might be more appropriate for this issue. Would it be more appropriate to change the route heading to "Normal route" or "Popular route?"

Thank you in advance to anyone who may have some helpful advice to offer on this question! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edokin (talk • contribs) 21:23, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

The section Routes of the article describes the southeast ridge as the more frequently used route. I would prefer 'principal route' to 'easiest route'. Apuldram (talk) 22:24, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I also like the idea of 'principal route'. --BurritoBazooka (talk) 04:38, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

I believe that the most common English language term is "standard route". If you search Google books for "standard route everest", you will see that many serious books about Himalayan mountaineering use this term. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:00, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

The template appears to accept only easiest route and normal route, so I have selected normal route (I tried others). Apuldram (talk) 12:38, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Peaks

How many peaks does Everest have ? I know it has the South Summit (and obviously the main summit), but does it have others ? A decent topographic map of the mountain showing the various landmarks wouldn't go amiss either. The Yeti (talk) 02:28, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 November 2015

The word "first" is missing from the following sentence:

"The American to climb Everest, Jim Whittaker, joined by Nawang Gombu, reached the summit on on 1 May 1963."

That's it! 153.219.158.240 (talk) 03:51, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

 Done Apuldram (talk) 10:24, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2015

Climate of Mount Everest: It has the Snowiest and frigid climate winters are very cold and snowy with a high of -80°F and in the summer the highs are -2°F. Winds can speed up to 170 mph. It is too dangerous to stay or climb on top of Mount Everest because its extremely cold and frigid at the top of Mount Everest!!!!!. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:C0AA:640:D95B:7D7F:D8D5:1CCB (talk) 05:04, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

 Not done This information is already in the article. Apuldram (talk) 09:40, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 January 2016

Thank you for including Montana State University's Everest Education Expedition under the 2012 Mountaineering Season section. Would you please consider adding the following sentence at the end of that paragraph. If you are unable to add the sentence, would you consider hyperlinking Everest Education Expedition to http://www.montana.edu/everest Thanks!...I was a member of the outreach team at Montana State University that developed this project.

More than 2,000 Montana school children followed the expedition via blog posts, videos and photos sent by the research team from Mount Everest. The <a href="http://www.montana.edu/everest/resources/lessons.htm">lesson plans and multimedia</a> remain available for use by teachers, students and families.

SuziT9 (talk) 03:50, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Not done: Hi, and thank you for wanting to contribute to the encyclopedia! I will need to deny this request because I believe it would violate our external links policy. In addition, it really just might go a bit too far off on a tangent. But I will look into it a bit more. Thanks again. --allthefoxes ^(Talk) 04:31, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 February 2016

Richard Messner called one of Leo's panoramic views of Everest, captured on the now discontinued Kodak Kodachrome film, the "best snap on Earth", according to UK newspaper The Telegraph.

The name is "Reinhold Messner", not "Richard Messner". 94.31.82.28 (talk) 12:38, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

 Done Apuldram (talk) 17:03, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Geology

Would it not be an eye-catcher for the average reader to introduce the second paragraph with something akin to,'The summit of Mt. Everest, amazingly enough, was once a seabed.'? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CF99:2080:A4E2:6AB2:513A:57AE (talk) 22:01, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

eye-catching perhaps; encyclopaedic no. Apuldram (talk) 23:08, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

First person with Type 1 Diabetes to reach the summit of Mount Everest.

Please include this very important fact under "Firsts" in the article ... Geri Winkler (born 13 April 1956 in Vienna, Austria) is an Austrian mountaineer, who was the first insulin-dependent diabetic to reach the summit of Mount Everest, on May 20, 2006. 2601:185:C001:BEB3:D5EC:6D14:F4BB:873E (talk) 17:06, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Where does it stop if we include medical conditions in the Selected climbing records section. I can live with first ascent by a blind climber, but where do we draw the line? Apuldram (talk) 19:59, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 February 2016

76.182.215.103 (talk) 21:56, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Apuldram (talk) 22:15, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Glut of space photos

The article seems awash with photos taken from orbit most of which don't seem to impart much useful info as the details are too small. Even the closeup one showing the routes up Everest would be better if a map were used instead as it's hard to interpret a photo of a mountain take from directly above as it's hard to tell whats a ridge and what's a trough. Samatarou (talk) 01:50, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

I agree. Perhaps you noticed that I removed one yesterday. One good one would be enough. Apuldram (talk) 10:36, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Local name

I have reverted the edit by Lovewhatyoudo, which removed one, but not both, of the local names for the mountain and destroyed the WP:NPOV. The statement that one of the local names is of concern, but not the other, is incorrect. The border runs through the peak and the name in Nepal is of equal importance to the name in Tibet.
The statement that the mountain is overwhelmingly known in English literature as Cholomunga is equally incorrect. The English name is Mount Everest. Apuldram (talk) 20:21, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Chimborazo

I removed the bit about Mount Chimborazo from the lead. added here. It was already in the "comparisons" section, and seemed like too much of a "factoid" to belong in an already crowded lead. Commenting here so no one thinks it was an unconsidered drive-by edit. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 13:07, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Sentence structure creates ambiguity

In the introduction, one sentence currently reads, "Mount Everest attracts many highly experienced mountaineers as well as capable climbers willing to hire professional guides." Because of the sentence structure, it is unclear if the dependent phrase, "willing to hire professional guides," is only modifying "capable climbers" or if it also modifies "experienced mountaineers." I do not know the intended meaning, so I am not editing the sentence. hunterhogan 22:20, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

I've removed the clause "willing to hire professional guides", which creates the ambiguity. Also, some of the attempts are not by capable climbers. Apuldram (talk) 10:27, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

George Mallory

George Mallory's body was found on Everest quite a few years ago and has been positively identified. According to this article, he's still missing. Please update. Thanks. KC 14:48, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article on George Mallory has excellent information on the finding of Mallory's body. Everything you would need for an emendation of this one can be found there. KC 15:00, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

@Boydstra: This article on Everest states clearly that Mallory's body was found in May 1999. Please indicate where in this article you found your statement "he's still missing".
Please also sign your posts by typing four tildes: ( ~~~~ ). Apuldram (talk) 15:12, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

I have to apologize. I have no idea what made me think that info wasn't here.it must have been very late. Please forgive the annoyance.

When I sign with the tildes, the bot signs me in anyway. I think I may have had an account years back and then created a second one. I have no idea how to get rid of the old one. Advice appreciated.

Again, sorry the foolish error. This is a stunning article.

I'm signing out with tildes. Let me know if you can see the problem. And feel free to delete all this from the Talk page afterward. KC 00:48, 6 April 2016 (UTC) KC 00:48, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your information. Yes, I see the problem, but I've no idea how to fix it. I'll let you know if I find something. I'll leave this here for a while, in case someone else has an idea. Apuldram (talk) 09:04, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 April 2016

<title>autonomous placeindia</title> Sanket9991 (talk) 11:57, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Apuldram (talk) 14:36, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 May 2016

Word change in History of expeditions, First successful ascent by Tenzing and Hillary. Change assault to ascent in this sentence: Two days later, the expedition made its second and final assault on the summit with its second climbing pair, the New Zealander Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay, a Nepali sherpa climber from Darjeeling, India.

Mirrg (talk) 14:53, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Not done: The word assault is intended here. A synonym would be attack.
It was the expedition's first ascent of the summit. Apuldram (talk) 17:01, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Colonialism

Interesting article but I would reword the title of the section titled "Discovery". Pretty sure it had been "discovered" long before the British arrived. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.47.101.51 (talk) 05:25, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

I agree. Identification and Measurement.

64.231.58.115 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:25, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

I just reverted the change. "Discovery" is the usual term -- I am fairly sure that the mountain had already been seen from the Tibetan side (and that the Tibetan name is old), but not from the Nepali / India side, and it therefore had no Nepali name at the time (Lhotse and Nuptse are in the way). Imaginatorium (talk) 04:10, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

This is quite a common use of the word discover. For example in 'Columbus discovered America'. Also, this articles's section makes it clear that it was not known beforehand that the mountain was the world's "highest". So that was a new discovery. Apuldram (talk) 10:03, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

7.8 Selected climbing records

Hello, on 7.8 Selected climbing records it says "2007 – Fastest to reach the summit via the northeast ridge, without supplemental oxygen, by Christian Stangl, in 58 hours, 45 minutes."

According to the link provided and the actual information on Christian Stangl's page, the actual time is 16:42

58 hours, 45 minutes is for all seven summits

Ignorance is bliss (talk) 11:58, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

 Done Well spotted, Mental gr, aka Ignorance is bliss. Apuldram (talk) 12:38, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 May 2016

Hi. Please add to the records:

2001 - Lhakpa Sherpa becomes first Nepali woman to summit Everest and survive.

2006 - Lhakpa Sherpa summits for the 6th time, breaking her own record for most successful female Everest climber.

2013 - Melissa Arnot, American, summits for the 5th time breaking her own record for most successful summits by any non-Sherpa woman.

67.169.79.201 (talk) 03:34, 11 May 2016 (UTC)Aubrey

 Done Apuldram (talk) 10:06, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Sharp's body and Green Boots

In the article for "Green Boots", it suggests that not only has Green Boots's body disappeared, but that Sharp's body has been removed. There are citations for same in the article, and that information should be updated, as it currently reads as though they are both together on the mountain still. Even if the information in the "Green Boots" article turned out to be incorrect, at least one of these articles must be changed so that they agree. 64.72.65.120 (talk) 05:35, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

 Done? Moved those facts here, BBC ref looks good for sharp but lets hope there is some more insights about this mystery. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fotaun (talk) 22:06, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Local Name ( Nepali )

The name ´ सगरमाथा ´ Was officially established by Dr.Baburam Aarharya . Teelinj Boy B-Soul (talk) 21:24, 22 June 2016 (UTC)