Talk:Muhammad

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Good article Muhammad has been listed as one of the Philosophy and religion good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2016[edit]


Would like to edit this page, as this page contains depicted picture of Prophet Mohammed SAW. Would like to remove the depicted pictures from this page.


Wsmanzoor (talk) 21:01, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done Please read Talk:Muhammad/FAQ --NeilN talk to me 21:05, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. However, there is a longstanding consensus that, because Wikipedia is not censored, pictures of Muhammad are included on this page. Users may opt out of viewing the images; directions are in the FAQ. Users who attempt to remove the images will find them quickly restored. —C.Fred (talk) 21:05, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

lead rewrite[edit]

I think the lead as written isn't necessarily bad, but there are things discussed that aren't exactly fitting (such as his work as a merchant.) I am proposing a rewrite to prune some of the unnecessary portions that aren't super noteworthy or weighted in the article. Tivanir2 (talk) 00:19, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

I think I need to sit down and do a full rewrite from scratch. Some of the sentences are setup weird and will need some major work. I will do that when I can get some Tim at a computer. Tivanir2 (talk) 01:35, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Those must be the poorly healed scars of old edit wars... Hopefully, we won't get into another big controversy. I'm happy to help if needed. Eperoton (talk) 01:42, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the offer and I will let you know. My hope I it should be a concise set of paragraphs, and if I find anything difficult to correct I will post it here in this section. Tivanir2 (talk) 01:50, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Well crud. My school workload just doubled so this will be on the back burner for a bit. Tivanir2 (talk) 11:56, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
Wait until you're out of school and have a career and kids. I'm amazed I find time for Wikipedia at all anymore. :) ~Amatulić (talk) 20:39, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

11 Rabbi-ul-Awwal 11 AH[edit]

  • This Hijri Date corresponds to Friday, 8 June 632 CE
  • 12 Rabbi-ul-Awwal AH (Hijri Date) on Arabic calendar corresponds to April 25, 571 which is the correct birth date of the Prophet, this can be checked by any Islamic Calendar : Hijri Date Converter..

71.191.11.9 (talk) 03:35, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

On the other hand, 12 Rabbi-ul-Awwal corresponds to April 24-26, 571 AND May 6, 570: Thus CE 570 cannot be a correct birth date.
  • April 25, 570 cannot be the CORRECT birth date Because May 6, 570 corresponds to another Hijri 12 Rabbi-ul-Awwal date
  • Since it is well-known that the birth date of the Prophet was on April 24-26 (Hijri 12 Rabbi-ul-Awwal), this corresponds to April 25, 571 Because the other Hijri 12 Rabbi-ul-Awwal matches to May 6, 570

71.191.11.9 (talk) 05:03, 7 August 2016 (UTC) 71.191.11.9 (talk) 05:03, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Don't try and calculating, it is not worth it, you are also entering Wikipedia:SYNTHESIS area. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 09:11, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Do you have any reliable sources (and you would need quite a few since scholarly consensus is no confirmed date) that supports your assertations? If not this is non actionable. Tivanir2 (talk) 11:50, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
This topic has been discussed several times in the past on the Muhammad talk page – I suggest that you first read the talk page archives. B.t.w. 8 June 632 (Julian) was a Monday, not a Friday. So before you post more misleading dates, try to find a reliable date converter. AstroLynx (talk) 11:58, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

12 Rabbi-ul-Awwal - Mawlid (possible birthdays of the Prophet)[edit]

  • 24-26 April 571 at the age of 61++++ which is the closest correct date since it matches to the last week of April
  • 5-6 May 570 at the age of 62+++ this cannot be true since it was on the first week of May
  • 16-17 May 569 at the age of 63++
  • 27-28 May 568 at the age of 64+
  • 8 June 567 at the age of 65 which is not possible.

There may be a 2 days of shift on the above dates. 71.191.11.9 (talk) 12:45, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

You still haven't posted a reliable source that definitively states what you want changed. Tivanir2 (talk) 13:41, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
12 Rabbi-ul-Awwal - Mawlid date does not match to CE 570 this is obvious and CE 570 should be deleted.

71.191.11.9 (talk) 14:23, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

You do not indicate which date converter you are using but the dates which you cite suggest that you are using a date converter based on the current Islamic calendar in which the days slowly drift through the year as the years pass on. However, there is plenty of evidence that the Meccan calendar in the days of Muhammad was actually luni-solar and was kept in approximate synchrony with the seasons by intercalating an extra month (probably at the end of the year) every two or three years. As we do not know how the intercalary months were actually regulated during Muhammad's time it is impossible to exactly convert Meccan calendar dates into Western calendar dates. I would also be interested to learn which "Islamic" sources claim that Muhammad was born in April or in May. AstroLynx (talk) 14:47, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Further reading:here 71.191.11.9 (talk) 16:18,7 August 2016 (UTC)
That article doesn't support the notion that a specific, exact day is known. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:46, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
What supports that it was 570 then ?71.191.11.9 (talk) 21:47, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
The sources already cited in the article. ~Amatulić (talk) 22:05, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
[Edit conflict] Nothing, as far as modern historiography is concerned. Brill's Encyclopedia of Islam (2nd ed) says: "There is better reason to believe that he may have been born later in the 570s." The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Islamic World says "The exact year of his birth is not known, but the early 570s appear likely." However, the latter lists the dates as "c.570–632 ce" in the same article, as do several other Oxford encyclopedias. Our use of "c. 570" reflects RSs. Eperoton (talk) 22:09, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Reasoning: If 12 Rabbi-ul-Awwal - Mawlid = The celebrations for the birthday of the Prophet has overwhelmingly accepted and the Gregorian birth month of the Prophet is well-known as April, then the only possibility from the above list should be CE 571. This corresponds to the date of 25 April 571 which is 12th of Rabi' al-awwal in [[Islamic calendar|Arabic months 71.191.11.9 (talk) 22:27, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Please consult WP:V and WP:RS. This article separates traditional beliefs from what WP:RSs tell us about the facts. The dates reflect prevalent use in academic sources. Eperoton (talk) 22:34, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
I read that The 12th Day of Rabi' al-awwal is the most popular date from a list of many dates that are reported as the birth date.71.191.11.9 (talk) 23:08, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
The problem with 'popular' or 'traditional' reports is that they are unreliable. There are also traditional sources which claim that Muhammad was born on a Monday – your preferred date, 25 April 571 (Julian), fell on a Saturday. AstroLynx (talk) 08:30, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
Article claims that: 12th day of Rabi' al-awwal (25 / 26th day of April, 571 CE) (Sunni Islam), 17th day of Rabi' al-awwal (30th day of April / 1st day of May 570 CE) (Shia Islam)71.191.11.9 (talk) 15:18, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

No, the cited articles do not support your claims. And please stop inserting similar unsourced claims on the Mawlid page. AstroLynx (talk) 15:27, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

12th day of Rabi' al-awwal & 17th day of Rabi' al-awwal[edit]

I'm just asking you to write these dates 12th day of Rabi' al-awwal & 17th day of Rabi' al-awwal properly. What are these dates?

The possibilities for 12th day of Rabi' al-awwal are as follows:
  • 25-26 April 571
  • 6-7 May 570
  • 17-18 May 569
  • 28-29 May 568
  • 8-9 June 567
    • Note that: 65 Gregorian years corresponds exactly to 67 hijri years. The difference is 11 days in between each year.

71.191.11.9 (talk) 19:07, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

It isn't clear to me exactly what you're asking to change in the article. In fact, the list of dates given above is why "circa 571" is most appropriate for designating the birth of the Prophet. A discussion about beliefs and traditions related to Muhammad's birth date is out of scope for this article, which is a biography of Muhammad, not about religious traditions. Muhammad in Islam might be a better place to include such a discussion. ~Amatulić (talk) 20:15, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
The most widely accepted birthday celebrations are done on 12th day of Rabi' al-awwal which corresponds to (25 / 26th day of April, 571 CE) Thi is written in Mawlid article...71.191.11.9 (talk) 20:53, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
That may be so, but I don't see a convincing case for the relevance of a birthday celebration date to an historical biography article. As I said earlier, religious traditions are not in the scope of this article. As an analogy, the most widely accepted birthday celebration of Jesus is December 25, but nearly all scholars of the subject agree that wasn't his actual birth date. We could mention that Muhammad's birthday is widely celebrated on the 12th day of Rabi' al-awwal, but the article can't assert that's the actual birth date. ~Amatulić (talk) 23:41, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
I think this new user doesn't understand how Wikipedia operates, wants to add un-needed detail. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 05:22, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2016[edit]


My request is that after the name Muhammad (representing the ONLY the prophet Muhammad) i would like to insert (s.a.w) so his name anywhere stated on Wikipedia should state Muhammad (s.a.w) this is due to the fact that Peace be upon him (Arabic: عليه السلام‎- ʿalayhi as-salām), abbreviated "pbuh", and peace be upon them (abbreviated "pbut"), are phrases that Muslims say after uttering or hearing names of any of the prophets.

In Arabic, these salutations are called ṣalawāt. In English texts they are often abbreviated with the use of "SAW" (in accordance with the Arabic words (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) or pbuh (which stands for "peace be upon him" in English).

Quranic Evidence:

(33/56)Allah and His angels send prayers on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye prayers on him, and salute him with all respect.

The Islamic scholar, ibn Kathir, titled the section in his Tafsir (i.e., explanation of the Quran), regarding this verse, the Command to say Salat upon the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Hadith: The evidence for sending salat on Muhammad is not limited only to the Quran

The prophet Muhammad said:" the miser is the one in whose presence I am mentioned, and then he does not send the Salat upon me."Narrated by Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad.

Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said, "May he be humiliated, the man in whose presence I am mentioned and he does not send Salat upon me; may he be humiliated, the man who sees the month of Ramadan come and go, and he is not forgiven; may he be humiliated, the man whose parents live to old age and they do not cause him to be granted admittance to Paradise." Narrated by Al-Tirmidhi,

ranked by him as "Hasan gharib" (Good but only reported once).

Abu Hurayrah said,that the prophet said:

"Whoever sends one Salat upon me, Allah will send ten upon him." Hadith narrated by Muslim, Abi Dawood, al-Tirmidhi, and al-Nissai.

Mismail123 (talk) 13:54, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Not done. Please read WP:SAWW. --NeilN talk to me 13:56, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Also reading the FAQ section in this talk page is recommended. Alexis Ivanov (talk) 14:17, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Existence[edit]

Some researches and studies demonstrated that this figure of Arabia never existed historically. Anything about this? --79.75.61.180 (talk) 18:23, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

A right wing fringe theory Alexis Ivanov (talk) 19:41, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
And there is an article titled at Historicity of Muhammad. —C.Fred (talk) 19:43, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

dîn[edit]

The verb (dâna) from which this noun is derived means 'become obedient'. It has nothing to do with 'path' See E.W Lane Arabic-English Lexicon p.942 (Pamour (talk) 13:13, 19 August 2016 (UTC))