Talk:Muhammad

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Good article Muhammad has been listed as one of the Philosophy and religion good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Quotes[edit]

We don't stick quotes [2] into articles with no context. There's no analysis of reception, impact, or even why the quotes are historically famous. --NeilN talk to me 01:38, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Looking for Source[edit]

I'm looking for a source, if anyone here might know of it, or have heard of it. I was told by Yemenite Jewish elders that Muhammad (being illiterate) had several Jewish associates. One of whom, they say, was a disgruntled proselyte to the Jewish religion (Abdullah ibn Salam) who wrote for Muhammad the surahs of the Qur'an. My understanding is that Abdullah ibn Salam wrote derogatively about the nation of Israel in the pages of his Qur'an, since he was rejected by those rabbis in Arabia who followed mainstream Judaism, but he followed what was to them a heretical form of Judaism, known as the Ebionite sect. They refused to give their sons to his daughters in marriage. Has anyone here heard of anything like this and, if so, what are the sources? Just curious. Davidbena (talk) 20:52, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Ebionites were technically Christians, they considered Jesus as the messiah (but not son) of God. But, Abdullah ibn Salam was not Ebionite. Khestwol (talk) 21:05, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
So this would fit the ideological doctrine of the Qur'an which, as I noted, according to Yemenite Jewish tradition was written by Abdullah ibn Salam. Are there any sources telling us that he compiled the Qur'an for Muhammad?Davidbena (talk) 21:54, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
Not at all. Abdullah ibn Salam was just one of the sahaba. Khestwol (talk) 22:19, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
Okay. So, from a rational point of view, since Muhammad the prophet was illiterate (no offense intended), how was the Qur'an written? What are the alternative views, if any? Just curious.Davidbena (talk) 22:47, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
Well, three relevant Wikipedia articles might help the curiosity: Revelation, Wahy, and History of the Quran. Hope they help. Salam, Khestwol (talk) 22:53, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. ---Davidbena (talk) 22:58, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
I wonder Khestwol what is the basis for your claim that the Ebionites were technically Christians! No, they were not. The term "Christians", which is Greek in origin, was used particularly, exclusively and for the first time by the Pauline branch of the Nazarenes. The Ebionites were not actually from the Pauline branch, since they rejected Paul and the Pauline branch which considered Jesus to be the promised Messiah of the Jews. Before Paul, the followers of Jesus of Nazareth were referred to only with the name "Nazarenes". After Paul, the name "Christians" replaced the name "Nazarenes" by the Pauline branch who adhered to the teachings of Paul who claimed that Jesus of Nazareth was himself the promised Messiah [i.e. the Christ] of the Jews. These teachings of Paul were exclusively rejected by the Ebionites who rejected the name "Christians" and maintained the name "Nazarenes" along with their identity as Jews keepers of the Sabbath and the Mosaic law. The Ebionites were technically Jews. They considered Jesus to be a major Jewish prophet and an important messiah. However, they didn't consider him to be the long awaited Messiah [i.e. the greatest Messiah].
As for Abdullah ibn Salam, he was actually a prominent Jewish rabbi from Medina. No Davidbena, he wasn't Ebionite. He actually met the Prophet Muhammad and converted to Islam only after the migration of the Prophet to Medina. His conversion to Islam embarrassed the Jews very much (it was more like if the Pope of the Vatican himself embraced Islam), because he was a very great rabbi with very great knowledge. That is why the Jews hated him too much after his conversion and considered it a major treason.--5.107.59.81 (talk) 17:37, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

The Ebionites are the ones referred to in Quran 5:82-85 as the nearest in affection to the believers [i.e. the Muslims]:

82 You will find that the most people in enmity to the believers are the Jews and idolaters, and that the nearest in affection to the believers are those who say: 'We are Nazarenes' That is because amongst them there are priests and monks; and because they are not proud. 83 When they listen to that which was sent down to the Messenger, you will see their eyes fill with tears as they recognize its truth. They say: 'Lord, we believe. Write us among the witnesses. 84 Why should we not believe in Allah and in the truth that has come down to us? Why should we not hope for admission among the righteous' 85 For their words Allah has rewarded them with Gardens underneath which rivers flow, where they shall live for ever. Such is the recompense of the righteous.

—translated by Qaribullah & Darwish[1]

So there is no doubt that there has been a joyful contact between the Prophet Muhammad and the Ebionites, and that the Ebionites bore witness of the Prophet as mentioned in the verse above.--5.107.59.81 (talk) 18:01, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Another thing to add is that the Gospel of Barnabas, which considers the Prophet Muhammad to be the real long awaited Messiah of the Bible, has been considered by some modern non-Muslim scholars such as John Toland to be a Gospel of the Ebionties.[3][4] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.107.59.81 (talk) 18:29, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Dear IP this is not page to discuss these things but regarding the Ebionite/Nazarene scriptures, I would like to recommend you to read Dead Sea Scrolls, and James the Just leader of the Ebionites/first Christians. The Pauline Christian are not the only Christian but there were also nontrinitarian, who though regarded themselves Jews and observe Mosaic laws as did Jesus himself. That's why I only considered the ebionites technical Christians. Khestwol (talk) 18:39, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Dear Registered User, it is wrong to call the Ebionites "Christians", because the term "Christians" is itself a Pauline term. You should call them "Nazarenes" just as they called themselves in Quran 5:82: "We are Nazarenes (Nasara)". Please respect the name the Ebionites identified themselves with. Thanks.--5.107.59.81 (talk) 19:21, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ [1]

Hatnote[edit]

In case it isn't obvious, we can't call Muhammad, "the prophet", in Wkipedia's voice, [5] any more than we could call Jesus, "the son of God". --NeilN talk to me 09:04, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Sure! it is quite fine however to call Paul "Apostle" and "Saint" in Wikipedia's voice! everyone has got your point.--5.107.59.81 (talk) 19:24, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Please discuss Template talk:Caliphate#New template[edit]

Please discuss Template talk:Caliphate#New template.--Peaceworld 13:56, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

"Islamic prophet Mohammed"[edit]

This is like saying "Christian Messiah Jesus". It is obtuse, and unnecessarily verbose. There is no Mohammed in the Bible, and thus there is no confusion in just calling him "prophet Mohammed" when disambiguation from other persons named Mohammed is needed.Scientus (talk) 16:18, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

That is the guideline, see WP:PBUH. If you want to change a guideline on Wikipedia, the place to propose and gain support for your change is on the guideline's talk page.
Also see two comments above. Wikipedia cannot refer to Muhammad as "prophet" in Wikipedia's voice, otherwise that would be adopting a religious point of view. Referring to him as the Islamic prophet disambiguates the POV from the description. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:53, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Request the removal of some of the drawings from Page the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him[edit]

Hi

I request remove of some of the drawings from Page the Prophet Muhammad those graphics that contain a drawing of the Prophet Mohammed because the drawing does not look like qualities of the Prophet Muhammad and the The painter did not see the Prophet Mohammed also the painter he lived after hundreds of years the death of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him also all Muslim scholars agree to prevent any drawings of the Prophet Mohammedpeace be upon him.

I do not speak english very well, I hope that my words do not contain errors

Thank you

2607:FC98:0:40:216:3EFF:FEAE:C95B (talk) 14:37, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Request is denied per WP:NOTCENSORED. See the FAQ above, #1, 2 and 3. Tarc (talk) 14:44, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
Handy link: Talk:Muhammad/FAQ --NeilN talk to me 14:45, 28 July 2015 (UTC)