Talk:Nantucket, Massachusetts

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Residents or vacationers?[edit]

I think we should make a distinction between true residents and second home owners. A resident lives in a place whereas many , perhaps most, of those listed live (reside) elsewhere. I propose we either split the list or rename it to be inclusive of second/vacation home owners. My preference is to split the list since I would find it useful to easily distinguish between those who actually live on the island and those who just visit. Jojalozzo 19:58, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Furthermore, not all are sufficiently notable to have a Wikipedia article, e.g. Don Callahan. Mentioning names here should be subject to WP:CITE with a reference demonstrating that they live or maintain a home here. I recommend commenting out entries that don't meet these criteria, until they do. User:HopsonRoad 23:55, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
I agree that notability must be determined by having an article or by citation. I disagree that we should relax the requirement to include home owners who are not legal residents. I would support splitting the list or changing the section title to "Notable residents and home owners" if we want to include non-resident notables. Jojalozzo 03:33, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Climate section[edit]

G. Capo added a useful climate summary. I encourage this entry to include references. User:HopsonRoad 13:54, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

I added in the source for the Köppen climate classification. This is used to determine the criteria of the different climatesSsbbplayer (talk) 16:44, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, Ssbbplayer, for that. I'd like to see a true reference here. The Köppen climate classification article itself mentions Nantucket explicitly under GROUP C: Temperate/mesothermal climates. However, there's no in-line reference in that paragraph at all, much less one that attributes the climate classification for Nantucket. Fig. 6 in the first reference (Peel, M. C. and Finlayson, B. L. and McMahon, T. A. (2007). "Updated world map of the Köppen–Geiger climate classification". Hydrol. Earth Syst. Sci. 11: 1633–1644.) doesn't appear to have enough resolution to discern the climatic classification of the Island. Sincerely, User:HopsonRoad 17:16, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Geography[edit]

The Geography section contains segments on Coatue beach, Hummock and Miacomet Ponds, the Popsquatchet Hills, and Squam Swamp that are unsourced or improperly sourced and contain non-notable material. They appear to reflect original research, which is disparaged in the Manual of Style. User:HopsonRoad 00:34, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Ref request on people list[edit]

This is a simple list, such as you find in "see also." Presumably the ref request is on whether or not that person ever visited Nantucket; that is, why is that person on the list? That information is given in the blue link, which is an adequate ref. If it is not in the link, the name does not belong on the list. Where blue links provide adequate references you do not need notes. To put them in chokes the article with redundant references and defeats the purpose of having a simple list. Let us say you do have a ref. Then it goes in the article referenced by the blue link, so it would not appear here.Branigan 10:10, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your clean-up, Branigan. The reason for the ref request was that the source article did not necessarily connect the person listed with Nantucket. Many entries pertaining to living people smack of original research, especially since in an earlier iteration there were folksy descriptions of what part of the island the mentioned person lived. User:HopsonRoad 12:57, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

RFC: Guidelines for adding entries to the list of notable residents and recurring visitors[edit]

Should we clarify guidelines for the content of #Notable residents or recurring visitors and, if so, how? Jojalozzo 18:56, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Survey[edit]

  • Yes - The section on notable residents or recurring visitors is a perennial point of friction on this page. I think we took significant steps when we restricted the list to residents and recurring visitors and when we agreed to require sources for new entries. I think we should emphasize our consensus not to include one-time or infrequent visitors in the comment at the top of the list and I think we should suggest the descriptive text be brief to avoid giving that list undue weight. Perhaps there is other guidance that we can agree on to reduce the likelihood of disputes arising over the content of that list. Jojalozzo 18:56, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Yes – Some proposed entries have been chatty and anecdotal. They appear to have been based on personal knowledge, rather than properly sourced, according to WP standards. Understandable as pride in the subject is, it's inconsistent with WP:NPOV. I commend Jojalozzo for his gentle discussion of this topic, here. User:HopsonRoad 19:55, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Yes in agreement with Jojalozzo and HopsonRoad. Jojalozzo's official proposal below seems to be the best as well. RedSoxFan2434 (talk) 02:16, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

  • The current guidance comment for that sections is

    <!---Please include a reference to demonstrate that an entry is a recurring visitor or a resident--->

I propose adding guidance (see underlined suggestion below) to emphasize the exclusion of one-time or infrequent visitors and to keep explanatory text brief:

<!--- Please a) include a reference to demonstrate that an entry is a recurring visitor or a resident, b) do not add entries for one-time or infrequent visitors, and c) keep explanatory text simple and brief --->

Jojalozzo 19:31, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Concur with the added guidance above, proposed by Jojalozzo. User:HopsonRoad 19:45, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
  • A list of visitors to a location is trivia, and needs to be purged. Visitors to ANY location, recurring or not, are generally not notable and non-encyclopedic.
  • Cited home-owner/residents can remain per guidelines, but may require a second article if it gets too large.
  • Any non-cited list elements should be purged.
  • Red links in a wiki-list are pretty much meaningless and should not appear, unless the article about that particular member will be written in a timely fashion.
  • Non-list articles should not contain link-farms.
Hope that helps. GenQuest "Talk to Me" 16:21, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
An interesting point, GenQuest: "Visitors to ANY location, recurring or not, are generally not notable and non-encyclopedic". It seems to me that an important part of Nantucket's notability is its list of recurring visitors. User:HopsonRoad 11:58, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Not so. It's is trivial to anybody not-local and is certainly non-encyclopedic. Can you imagine the bloated lists of "People visiting or vacationing in Chicago... New York City... Miami... Honolulu... etc." that could be added to articles? It's fancruft, pure and simple, and detracts from the article, as well as from Nantucket itself, which has plenty to offer besides a list of who may have once passed through there. GenQuest "Talk to Me" 14:27, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
Your point is well taken. However, those communities are so large that it would be appropriate to mention that they are the permanent or seasonal homes to notable people in specified walks of life, without naming them. It's also noteworthy that they draw visitors from all over the world. Absent the recurring visits of glitterati, Nantucket would be much less notable than it is and only as notable as other attractive communities with interesting histories—e.g. Burlington, Vermont. User:HopsonRoad 23:01, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Implementation[edit]

I have placed the proposed text in the Notable residents or recurring visitors section multiple times, such that it can be seen at least once, as one edits a portion of the list. User:HopsonRoad 22:38, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

I added "and d) person is notable enough to have a Wikipedia entry." to the criteria in order to keep the list manageable and populated with people who are notable by WP standards. User:HopsonRoad 23:21, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Closing RFC[edit]

I came here from WP:AN to assess onsensus. It's clear how to handle this issue, so no action from me is required. Chutznik (talk) 05:47, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Where to put miscellaneous items?[edit]

An editor placed the following unreferenced text in the Geology and geography section:

In the winter of 2013/2014, severe erosion of Siasconset Beach and Bluff placed several homes as well as Baxter Street and its utility corridor in jeopardy of falling into the sea. The SBPF (a homeowners association) and the Town of Nantucket jointly undertook action resulting in the installation of a 900 foot long geotextile tube (TITANTube) sand filled structure consisting of three tiers (rows) of tubes, sometimes referred to as geotubes, backfilled with sand cover.

Geology and geography are slowly changing attributes of the island. This contribution is more about current events or even climate change or possibly governmental action in maintaining the island's assets. Perhaps there should be a section where such contributions can fit better. User:HopsonRoad 02:45, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Nantucket Lightship Basket[edit]

We need an image of a Nantucket Lightship Basket.

If you have one in your home, please take the baby out of it and put it into another basket. Then, get your camera out, take a photo of it, and upload it here. Then, return the baby to the Nantucket Lightship Basket and give it a nice bottle of warm milk. Many thanks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:45, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Unenrolled vs. unaffiliated[edit]

The PIPE recently suggested the term, "unenrolled", instead of "unaffiliated" to describe Massachusetts voters, who have chosen not to be aligned with a party. It's clear at Massachusetts Directory of Political Parties and Designations that "unenrolled" is the correct term of art for that state. However, I feel that the term "unaffiliated" still speaks to a broader group of readers, who would puzzle, as I did about "enrolled". What do others think? User:HopsonRoad 17:41, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Nantucket – Cape Cod[edit]

An editor is claiming the distance from Cape Cod to Nantucket is 30 mi. A simple measurement in Google Earth demonstrates that the distance from points along the shore from Harwich to Hyannis are about 18 miles to the National Wildlife Refuge on the northern tip of the island. Let's find a cited distance, e.g. the ferry route from Hyannis to Nantucket Town, and use that. User:HopsonRoad 21:18, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

By ferry it is 29.1 miles from Hyannis to Nantucket according to google maps (that includes a bit of road). Not seeing 18 miles unless perhaps from the far southern tip south of Chatham to the northern tip of the island. —DIY Editor (talk) 21:57, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
I guess that's where the 30 miles comes from, but it's still WP:OR, either way! The 18 miles, is as you say. User:HopsonRoad 22:01, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
This source says 30 miles by ferry Hyannis-Nantucket:
User:HopsonRoad 22:12, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Nantucket becomes an island[edit]

Flooding of Buzzards Bay did not make Nantucket an island. That would have been flooding of parts of what is now Nantucket Sound. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18E:C500:72A6:6D2C:3A19:F0D3:A8D8 (talk) 00:44, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Fixed Good point! User:HopsonRoad 01:40, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

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