Talk:Naro-1

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Rocketry (Rated Start-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Rocketry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of rocketry on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Korea (Rated Start-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Korea, a collaborative effort to build and improve articles related to Korea. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
 
WikiProject Spaceflight (Rated C-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spaceflight, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of spaceflight on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
Checklist icon
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 


Wish list[edit]

wish list:

  • picture/diagram
  • what are its planned missions?
  • how much has been invested?


Successful Rocket Launch but Satellite Fails[edit]

SKorean KSLV's was a successful launch but satellite was failed to coordinate its points into given SKorean magnitude and space coordinates degree. More Info can be found here:

SKorea rocket takes off, satellite launch fails —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.232.138.179 (talk) 01:19, 26 August 2009 (UTC) That is a fail,not success

Link to incorrect information[edit]

One of the links in the external links section comes with the comment that it has incorrect information. How do we know it is incorrect? Who says? Where is the correct information? Why don't we link there? But most importantly, why are we linking to an incorrect/questionable article? We should at least remove the link until we verify its accuracy. --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 00:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

A better source would be the space agency itself, probably, [1] but there I only find this:
"From late 2004, Russia and Korea worked jointly on launch vehicle system design. In April 2005, the two parties held a system design review meeting, followed by joint launch vehicle critical design. However, a critical design review meeting, which was scheduled to be held in late 2005 was put off as the Technology Safeguard Agreement (TSA), the prerequisite for major technology protection products, was signed in October 17 2006, later than expected. As a result, the initial launch target, which was set for the end of 2007, could not be delivered. After the signing TSA in October 2006, the two parties have closely cooperated with the goal of a launch by the end of 2008. "
It sounds a bit old (and I have problem deep-link there). /AEL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.217.235.215 (talk) 23:40, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Description - source unverified[edit]

KARI and the Ministry of Science & Technology (MOST) plan to develop now a national satellite launch vehicle (based on the Russian Angara space booster) capable of putting a 100 kg payload into orbit by 2008 and a lower-orbit commercial satellite with 1,000 kg by 2010. A further upgrade is planned with a payload capability increased to 1,500 kg by 2015.

First launch of the new KSLV-I launch vehicle from the new space centre was scheduled for 2008, with completion of the spaceport and launch of a 1500 kg South Korean satellite into sun-synchronous orbit by 2015. It was now a completely different vehicle, consisting of a first stage derived from the Russian Angara launch vehicle, and a solid propellant second stage of South Korean manufacture. The KSLV-II, scheduled for first flight by 2010. Evidently will consist of a Russian Angara first stage and a South Korean liquid-propellant second stage. The KSLV-III, to consist of a Russian Angara first stage, a South Korean liquid propellant second stage, and a South Korean solid propellant apogee kick motor. Scheduled for first flight by 2015.

The Space Rocket Complex (SRC) will comprise a launch vehicle, launch pad and processing facilities, ground infrastructure (monitoring assets, power supply, office areas, living quarters, roads, etc.) and a mission control center. KhSC will be the lead developer of SRC. The Ground Facility will be designed by the Design Bureau for Transport Engineering. Energomash will design and produce the engines for the 1st Stage of the Launch Vehicle (launch mass 127,5 tons). South Korean companies and organizations will also be involved in the design and manufacturing process for different elements of the Complex. The Korean Aerospace Research Institute is the Customer in this project. The contract will be implemented in three phases. Phase 1 is scheduled to take up until 2008 when KSLV-1 is supposed to launch the first satellite from the South Korean launch site on the Island of Oenaro. By then the new launch complex is however not finished. The Angara booster not yet fly likewise.

South Korean government said now that it plans to develop a powerful two-stage rocket by 2017 to send a satellite to the moon. According to the Ministry of Science and Technology, South Korea plans to build and test a 200-ton KSLV-II booster rocket and launch its first lunar exploration satellite in 2020. The KSLV-II is expected to be a larger and more advanced model of the 170-ton KSLV-I.

The first stage of KSLV is not identically to the Russian Angara. The KSLV uses an other Russian engine. The named engine RD-151 has four chambers with 1667 kN s.l. of thrust. Two pairs from the Russian engine RD-251 (RD-251 use three pairs RD-250) are probable the new Kerosene/LOX driving RD-151 for KSLV. On the 23rd October 2006, Vladimir Nesterov, manager of the Krunichev Center in Russia, informed that the Krunichev Center intends to perform the design and manufacture work for the KSLV first stage propulsion system. However he also revealed that transfer of detailed technology will likely not happen. Nesterov said that Korea and Russia had entered a contract for development of the propulsion system manufacturing technology. "We have obtained a contract to develop a first stage propulsion system for a launch vehicle capable of launching a 100kg satellite. We will supply components/materials needed for manufacture without transferring technology." Nesterov said.

This looks like it might be a translation of a press release, or perhaps what is said in the video at the source location. (sdsds - talk) 05:47, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Naro-1 vs Naro-2[edit]

The April 2010 launch should be another Naro-1. Naro-2 (ex. KSLV-2) won't be operational for a few years yet. --GW 22:41, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

"Own soil"[edit]

Despite the press reports, South Korea is not the tenth country to "launch a home-made satellite from its own soil". Ignoring the argument that the level of Russian involvement prevents it from being an indigenous launch, then it would be the tenth country to conduct such a launch, however that number includes the UK, which has only ever conducted launches from Australian soil. --GW 08:22, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

The source states the launch is made from Korean soil, regardless of where the rocket is manufactured from. Even if it is from a Russian source, the launch was conducted on Korean soil, which is the whole point of this project. 112.148.104.47 (talk) 10:52, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
That is not the issue. Black Arrow was launched from Australia, so South Korea is not the tenth country to launch from its own soil. We need to decide how to define this term in order to work out the correct number. --GW 10:54, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Also, please don't remove cleanup tags until the issue is resolved. --GW 10:56, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
There is nothing "dubious" about this launch at all and there is no "definition" necessary. Your attempt at trying to "define" it is classified as WP:OR under Wikipedia guidelines. Original research is not permitted at Wikipedia. There is clear consensus about this fact, do not try to vandalise it. Milkmooney (talk) 11:05, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
What? --GW 11:08, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
I agree with GW. "What?" GW is raising the legitimate point. Do not raise a vandal question to stop discussion. Can anyone explain how the UK can be said to have launched from its own soil if Australia was used? Alan Davidson (talk) 08:38, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
my suggestion is to get rid of the "own soil" portion of the statement completely, since it comes from simple journalistic sensationalism anyway. The statement then becomes something along the lines of: "South Korea is the <X>th country to have successfully developed a launch system".
V = I * R (talk) 08:49, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not about the truth. It's about what's reported. And if it's reported that SK is the tenth country to "launch a home-made satellite from its own soil", then that is what we need to include.  Aar  ►  00:09, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

I think UK is considered to have launched an SLV from its soil when it launches it from Australia because Australia is 'technically' considered a colony of the British Commonwealth, e.g. part of UK's territory by constitutional virtue. Australia's supreme ruler is Queen Elizabeth who is the monarch of United Kingdom. --Ambassador (talk) 13:29, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Successful launch with no payload[edit]

Why is the first launch listed as being successful and having no payload? The fact that it was a partial failure carrying the/an STSAT-2 satellite was referenced, this is not. --GW 11:12, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

It did not say there was "no" payload - there was a payload called STSAT-2, but it did not reach its orbit, as referenced per source.Milkmooney (talk) 11:19, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
1) It implies that there was no payload, 2) The source that you provided says that it reached a higher orbit than planned, which was what this article said before you started messing around with it. --GW 11:25, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Also, if you search google news, most articles consider it a failure or partial failure, and most of the good news sites mention that it reached the wrong orbit. I think the BBC article was just published before all the facts were known. --GW 11:41, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

The intro now says it was a successful launch.. later it says it was a failure. Oh, I'm confused :( 137.82.36.24 (talk) 22:16, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Typical Korean ware. Shiny but unreliable. 86.137.251.212 (talk) 00:40, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

The Russians claim it failed...and they should know, it was actually their rocket. (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/08/south-korea-launch-of-kslv-1/). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.162.94.66 (talk) 01:04, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Let's not turn this into a futile nationalist debate. Marksspite2 (talk) 02:03, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
The mission was to place a payload in a set orbit. It failed. Even the launch cannot be said to be successful because it did not go where it was suppose to. The launch was a partial success onlt; in that it got off the ground and reached a high altitude. Alan Davidson (talk) 08:56, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
South Korea is still a Developing Country. 86.137.251.212 (talk) 21:16, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Actually, it's it's been classified as a "Developed Country" for about a year now (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/article4810718.ece). Abcfox (talk) 07:34, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Intro?[edit]

I don't think the intro should be "The satellite reached an altitude of 360 km rather than the intended 302 km." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Givengels (talkcontribs) 17:45, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Launch failure scenario[edit]

I have updated the article with newer information that seems to have surfaced. A reference article is available here. It now appears that the mishap is very similar to what happened to the latest Taurus: the fairing failed to separate, as a result the rocket was too heavy and did not accelerate enough to reach orbit. In our case, it appears that it actually surged above the intended altitude at slow speed before falling down - which is consistent with the first news reports. Feel free to make some corrections to my modifications if you feel that they are appropriate.

Now, it is a bit early indeed, but this begs the question on how should we categorize the launch - partial failure, of failure ? The convention on other wikipedia rocketry articles is to call "partial failures" launches that put the payload on a lower than intended orbit, and "failure" launches that did not put the payload on orbit. On the Taurus article, we categorized as "failure" a mishap similar to what happened to Naro-1. Well, this is just food for thought. For now, we should probably leave the launch as a partial failure, until more details are available. Cochonfou (talk) 20:17, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

According to Khrunichev the payload fairing was South Korea's responsibility. Should we point this out? Offliner (talk) 11:23, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Any sourced information can be added. But in my opinion, the launch should be categorized as a failure, since the mission failed. The payload apparently is not anymore in orbit either. - ☣Tourbillon A ? 16:32, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Name[edit]

Official KARI website, http://www.kari.re.kr/ do use "Korea Space Launch Vehicle-I" name. The two references about "Naro-1", one claim rocket "also called" and another one talking Korean name('나로 ???) without mentioning "Naro-1". Renamed article to match English name officially used by KARI. Vitall (talk) 14:47, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

  • The Naro-1 rocket was originally designated KSLV-I, I believe this is what that source meant by "also called". I forget exactly when it was renamed, but it was after April, which is when the English part of the KARI website was last updated. The Korean part of the site uses "나로호", which transliterates to "Naro". The KSLV name was also used there, in parenthesis, since it was the former designation. The two references that you criticise are but two examples, and I can find others if necessary to prove that the correct name for the rocket is now Naro. I have moved the page back, in future it might be best to check that your information is up to date before replacing referenced information - even if you do not approve of the references. If you wish to take this specific instance further I would suggest taking it to WP:RM. --GW 18:25, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Dates[edit]

Two different dates, one being today, are given for the second launch. 82.163.24.100 (talk) 16:12, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

-> How do we update this? It's simply called 'Naro' in the Korean media, should there be a separate article for the second launch, or can the title be changed to Naro and separate sections for 1 and 2? Anyone on to this? Nuyos (talk) 15:32, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

  • Naro-2 is a completely different rocket, the launch currently scheduled for Wednesday is the second (and probably final) flight of the Naro-1 rocket. --GW 17:06, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

->I figured that out after I asked. My bad. Thanks for the clarification. Nuyos (talk) 03:31, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Error in "History" as a result of an error in an External Link[edit]

Under "History," it states, "The launcher would be entirely indigenous, based on the 122,500-kilonewton (27,500,000 lbf) thrust LOX/kerosene motor used in the KSR-3.[6]"

[6] is an external link to an article posted at the website "Jane's Information Group, 24 January 2008," and the statement quoted above is a word-for-word copy of a sentence contained in their article. While I do not know if "Jane's Information Group" is copyrighted material or not, the real issue is the amount of thrust reported in the Wikipedia article as a result of using information from this external link's site.

As the Wikipedia article points out, the KSR-3 was a sounding rocket which weighed "6,000-kilogram (13,000 lb)." Why would a 6,000 kg. (13,000 lb.) sounding rocket require 122,500 kilonewtons (or 27,500,000 lbs.) of thrust??

The most powerful single-chamber, single-nozzle, liquid-fueled rocket engine ever developed, the Rocketdyne F-1, produced just over 6672 kilonewtons (1.5 million lbs.) of thrust at sea level in its final version. The Saturn V boosters used in the American Apollo Moon missions used five F-1s at a time, generating a total of "only" 33,361 kilonewtons (7.5 million pounds) of thrust at sea level at launch (these are the nominal minimums - the actual amounts were slightly higher), yet the entire launch vehicle, including all the stages, the lunar orbiter and the lander, weighed 3,039,000 kg. (6,699,000 lbs.), according to another article in Wikipedia.

Obviously, it is inconceivable that a 6,000 kg. (13,000 lb.) sounding rocket would require 959 kg. (2,115 lbs.) of thrust for each kg. (or lb.) of weight when it only required .50 kg (or 1.11 pounds) of thrust for each .45 kg. (1 lb.) of weight to launch a fully-equipped moon mission.

The Jane's article contains a very serious error which has yet to be corrected. The Wikipedia article should not repeat or reflect such a stunning mistake as this. Unless a credible source can be located with the correct thrust rating for the KSR-3, no amount of thrust should be mentioned for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NikiAjax (talkcontribs) 08:37, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you 100%. Based on my knowledge of rocket engines and my degree in Aerospace Engineering, there is no way the engine could produce 27 million pounds of thrust. Like you mentioned, the total thrust of the Saturn V was on the order of 7 million pounds. I think the Jane's article is incorrect, so I will remove the reference to the article as well as the 27 million pound thrust number until someone can find a correct citation. 76.119.234.47 (talk) 03:41, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
It is simply an error. 122.5-kilonewton (27,500 lbf) is correct. See [2]. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 04:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Editors need to be aware that many european countries use the comma ',' as a decimal point ( and period '.' as thousands separator). Make sure you verify that the numbers are reasonable and do the conversion as needed.

This was almost certainly the cause of this error. --71.214.208.91 (talk) 15:54, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Second launch failure[edit]

Implications are that flight termination system on either the first stage or the second stage activated which caused the rocket to undergo unplanned rapid self-disassembly. I also remember finding another source which stated the second(?) stage fts had been activated by a spurious signal. --Aflafla1 (talk) 02:43, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Until more definitive plans appear, I'd take the announcement of the third launch in 2012 with a big grain of salt. --Aflafla1 (talk) 02:43, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Third Launch[edit]

Will there be a third launch or is the project dead? --95.223.106.63 (talk) 08:56, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Payload?[edit]

What is the payload to LEO for this rocket? The article seems to be missing any claim about this whatsoever. Cheers. N2e (talk) 00:01, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

With less than a week before the scheduled third launch, and with two unsuccessful launches in the previous three years, I've still been unable to find a reliable secondary source in the English-language press for the payload mass of this launch vehicle. When it gets right down to it, the specification of the payload mass to a particular orbit (say, LEO) is perhaps the most important metric of any space transport launch system.
Can anyone with the ability to read the Korean press find a source for this information? N2e (talk) 22:10, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
I don't remember ever running across that information either. But we do know it was able to put up a 100kg satellite into low earth orbit. And since no more flights are planned, maybe that's enough to say. --66.41.154.0 (talk) 00:44, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

DPRK vs. ROK space race[edit]

I'm struck that there is a complete absence of media attention to the possible view of the DPRK's 'civilian', i.e. non military rocket launches as a purely political race with the South for historical access to space. They've put up a satellite just ahead of the ROK and propaganda is served. Decades down the road will history still view it as purely a military rocket program in guise? It's dual use is obvious as the cold war space race, but why does no one seem to take that angle into consideration for their motivation? Doyna Yar (talk) 04:39, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, this page is about improving the article, not mere internet chat. If you have a citation from a reliable source about what you say, then by all means add it to the article, as on Wikipedia, WP:Anyone can edit. 04:14, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Third Launch Date Confirmed[edit]

Spaceflightnow.com has the third launch date set for 26 January 2013. http://www.spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html I updated the page to reflect this. Cosmonautdjp (talk) 17:37, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Successful first orbital launch by South Korea[edit]

With the recent success of South Korea's first orbital launch,

  • the article needs some copyediting to focus more on the high-level summary and less on the dates and times of previous non-launched tries, and
  • a variety of related Wikipedia articles need to be updated. (For example, as of 6 Feb 2013, Comparison of Asian national space programs does not reflect the Korean Republic's recent successful launch).

N2e (talk) 23:30, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Such updates should distinguish the launch from fully-indigenous launch capability, which most other launch-capable countries have - Naro-1 is, after all, mostly Russian. --W. D. Graham 02:16, 7 February 2013 (UTC)