Talk:Native Americans in the United States

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edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Native Americans in the United States:

*Featured Article Candidacy information - remove as corrected :)

  • several POV sections, including European
  • In "Society", 3 groups are mentioned, Iroquois, Navajo and Pueblo. Are these 3 groups representative of "Native Americans"? And the various descriptions of arts and crafts, tribal stories, and relationships with the spirit world is random and hardly seems to describe "society", then or now.
  • "Religion", ignores the past and only talks about the "most widespread religion at the present time".
  • "Gender roles" hardly says anything--"social and clan relationships were matrilinear and matriarchal" with no elaboration--and ends after all of two sentences with: "The cradle board was used by mothers to carry their baby whilst working or traveling"?
  • "Economy" is a mash-up of references to dugouts, agriculture, tobacco, firearms and alcoholic beverages. This all seems very hastily written, doesn't summarize anything
  • Other sections are problematic in similar ways, particularly with sentences that are oddly worded or say nothing: "Native Americans were stunned to learn..." or "While exhibiting widely divergent social, cultural, and artistic expressions, all Native American groups worked with materials available to them and employed social arrangements that augmented their means of subsistence and survival."
  • no inline citations in "history" and several of the sections, "Other archaeologists have disputed the dating methodology employed, and have also suggested that these "artifacts" are naturally-formed, rather than of human manufacture. Other recent claims for pre-Clovis artifacts have similarly been made in some South American sites. The notion of pre-Clovis habitation continues to be a subject of scholarly debate, and the issue has not yet been satisfactorily resolved." - evidence of weasel words. I added an inline citation for that.
  • lots of weasel words—for example, "is believed to have reached the New World", "They are believed to have reached Alaska", and "molecular genetics studies have suggested". The first one I can't fix (I had nothing to do with writing the article), the second and third examples I found a reference for. The fourth I added "mitochondrial DNA", which I learned in biology but it would be best if somebody could verify this.
Former featured article candidate Native Americans in the United States is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
February 23, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted

Subheading added[edit]

In order to reduce the length of the Introduction, I have inserted a new subheading: Overview.

--Doctor Gregory (talk) 15:21, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Ending Confusion[edit]

I know how people on Wikipedia have a hard time accepting new edits so I'll muster all the sensitivity that I can: the term 'native' or 'indigenous' or 'aboriginal' is kind of a cop-out or an acceptance to forming opinions about "things" that are unknown or uninformative. I've studied the history of Americas quite extensively, and to help with potential distance between peoples who have nothing to do with each other, I've tried to classify the 'game changers' between two factions centering around or near the Great Lakes people: A) Algonquians (the people who fought in the Beaver Wars [for French], French-Indian Wars [for French], American Revolution [for English], War of 1812 [for British]), B) Iroquoians [Cherokee People, Haudenosaunee people, Huron People].

This usually helps at a discussion table when people generally want to know the story of our great Continent without confusion of who fought for who and who didn't fight at all. Now in Canada (where I live), people are generally classifying themselves as 'native' or 'Great Lakes People' regardless of race or religion. Good luck to you all. 216.223.90.33 (talk) 17:59, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

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proposal for "Trauma" section[edit]

I would like to add a sub-section titled "Trauma" under the Contemporary Issues section. The following citations are sources I plan to use.

Braveheart-Jordan, M., DeBruyn, L. (1995). So She May Walk in Balance: Integrating the Impact of Historical Trauma in the Treatment of Native American Indian Women. In J. Adleman & G. M. Enguidanos (Eds.), Racism in the Lives of Women: Testimony, Theory, and Guides to Antiracist Practice (pp. 345-366). Binghamton, New York: Harrington Park Press.

Cole, N. (2006). Trauma and the American Indian. In T. M. Witko (Ed.), Mental Health Care for Urban Indians: Clinical Insights from Native Practitioners (pp. 115-130). Washington, DC: American Psychological Association.

Gone, J. P. (2009). A Community-Based Treatment for Native American Historical Trauma: Prospects for Evidence Based Practice. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 77(4). 751-762. doi: 10.1037/a0015390

Grayshield, L., Rutherford, J. J., Salazar, S. B., Mihecoby, A. L., Luna, L. L. (2015). Understanding and Healing Historical Trauma: The Perspectives of Native American Elders. Journal of Mental Health Counseling, 37(4). 295-307. doi: 10.17744/mech.37.4.02

Myhra, L. L., Wieling, E. (2014). Psychological Trauma Among American Indian Families: A Two-Generation Study. Journal of Loss and Trauma, 19. 289-313. doi: 10.1080/15325024.2013.771561

Paul, T. M., Lusk, S. L., Becton, A. B., Glade, R. (2017). Exploring the Impact of Substance Abuse, Culture, and Trauma on American Indian Adolescents. Journal of Applied Rehabilitation Counseling, 48(1). 31-39.

Weaver, H. N., Brave Heart, M. Y. H. (1999). Examining Two Facets of American Indian Identity: Exposure to Other Cultures and the Influence of Historical Trauma. Journal of Human Behavior in Social Environment, 2(1-2). 19-33. doi: 10.1300/J137v02n01_03

Weaver, H., Congress, E. (2010). The Ongoing Impact of Colonization: Man-made Trauma and Native Americans. In A. Kalayjian & D. Eugene (Eds.), Mass Trauma and Emotional Healing Around the World: Rituals and Practices for Resilience and Meaning-Making (pp. 211-226). Santa Barbara, CA: Praeger.

Willmon-Haque, S., Bigfoot, D. S. (2009). Violence and the Effects of Trauma on American Indian and Alaska Native Populations. In R. Geffner, D. Griffin & J. Lewis III (Eds.), Children Exposed to Violence: Current Issues, Interventions, and Research (pp. 48-63). New York: Routledge.

KyleMasonVance (talk) 16:43, 31 July 2017 (UTC)KyleMasonVance

I don't understand what the section is going to be about. Can you give like a one-sentence description of what it's going to cover that's not already in the article? LacrimosaDiesIlla (talk) 16:32, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

I am going to add a sub-section under "Contemporary Issues" titled "Historical and Intergenerational Trauma". This section will talk about Historical Trauma in terms of the Wounded Knee Massacre of 1890 and Dawes Allotment Act of 1887, Impacts of Intergenrerational Trauma in terms of substance abuse and boarding schools, and Solutions for Trauma in terms of culturally sensitive mental health practices such as burning sage and speaking one's own tribal language.

Here is my current list of references of which I will summarize.

Braveheart-Jordan, M., & DeBruyn, L. (1995). So She May Walk in Balance: Integrating the Impact of Historical Trauma in the Treatment of Native American Indian Women. In J. Adleman & G. M. Enguidanos (Eds.), Racism in the Lives of Women: Testimony, Theory, and Guides to Antiracist Practice (pp. 345-366). Binghamton, New York: Harrington Park Press.

Cole, N. (2006). Trauma and the American Indian. In T. M. Witko (Ed.), Mental Health Care for Urban Indians: Clinical Insights from Native Practitioners (pp. 115-130). Washington, DC: American Psychological Association.

Coyhis, D., & Simonelli, R. (2008). The Native American Healing Experience. Substance Use & Misuse, 43. 1927-1949. doi: 10.1080/10826080802292584

Grayshield, L., Rutherford, J. J., Salazar, S. B., Mihecoby, A. L., & Luna, L. L. (2015). Understanding and Healing Historical Trauma: The Perspectives of Native American Elders. Journal of Mental Health Counseling, 37(4). 295-307. doi: 10.17744/mech.37.4.02

Myhra, L. L. (2011). “It runs in the family”: Intergenerational Transmission of Historical Trauma Among Urban American Indians and Alaska Natives in Culturally Specific Sobriety Maintenance Programs. American Indian and Alaska Native Mental Health Research, 18(2). 17-40. National Center for American Indian and Alaska Native Mental Health Research.

Myhra, L. L., & Wieling, E. (2014). Psychological Trauma Among American Indian Families: A Two-Generation Study. Journal of Loss and Trauma, 19. 289-313. doi: 10.1080/15325024.2013.771561

Paul, T. M., Lusk, S. L., Becton, A. B., & Glade, R. (2017). Exploring the Impact of Substance Abuse, Culture, and Trauma on American Indian Adolescents. Journal of Applied Rehabilitation Counseling, 48(1). 31-39.

Weaver, H., & Congress, E. (2010). The Ongoing Impact of Colonization: Man-made Trauma and Native Americans. In A. Kalayjian & D. Eugene (Eds.), Mass Trauma and Emotional Healing Around the World: Rituals and Practices for Resilience and Meaning-Making (pp. 211-226). Santa Barbara, CA: Praeger.

Willmon-Haque, & S., Bigfoot, D. S. (2009). Violence and the Effects of Trauma on American Indian and Alaska Native Populations. In R. Geffner, D. Griffin & J. Lewis III (Eds.), Children Exposed to Violence: Current Issues, Interventions, and Research (pp. 48-63). New York: Routledge.

KyleMasonVance (talk) 21:49, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Since the "Contemporary Issues" section of this article has a main article at Contemporary Native American issues in the United States, I think you should consider putting the bulk of your work into a new section in that article and then putting a briefer summary of it in this one. Eventually this should possibly also have an article of its own. LacrimosaDiesIlla (talk) 01:44, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you LacrimosaDiesIlla for your recommendation. I believe you are correct about this topic needing its own article. I had considered creating a specific article for this topic but do not have the time for it at the moment because the reason for my contributions are to fulfill requirement for a 6 week summer graduate course. Maybe once I do more research and add more to these articles mentioned I will undertake that task. For the time being I will add a my current work to Contemporary Native American issues in the United States and leave a summary on this page as to be able to direct users to additional information. KyleMasonVance (talk) 19:40, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Alright, good luck! LacrimosaDiesIlla (talk) 00:18, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Bio warfare not factual[edit]

"There are a number of documented cases where diseases were deliberately spread among Native Americans as a form of biological warfare. The most well known example occurred in 1763, "

Been spending some time investigating the above subject.

In fact there seems to have been only one such recorded case (Fort Pitt 1763 ) and it is not clear that the attempt achieved anything.

I therefore suggest the sentence be reworded to:

There is only one documented case where an attempt was made to deliberately spread disease among Native Americans as a form of biological warfare. That example occurred in 1763...

Cassandra.

You must provide source to statement "only one documented case" Cathry (talk) 14:25, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
Interesting. It seems to be true. Discussions of this at various articles, eg History of biological warfare and Native American disease and epidemics only mention this one. Doug Weller talk 16:45, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
I'm not 100% up to speed on the latest research here, but this has been in the news lately with name changes around places named after Jeffery Amherst, in both Canada and the US. He and his compatriots may have been involved in more incidents than those mentioned above (see Jeffery Amherst, 1st Baron Amherst#Biological warfare involving smallpox). It's my understanding that there may be some lesser-known documentation about other incidents in the archives at either Amherst College or UMass, Amherst. I think some of this may be coming online, or accessible in pdf form, at some point. Until this is looked into deeper, I would not say there is "only one." Propose simply removing some of the text, to simplify it to something more like:
"Smallpox was deliberately spread among Native Americans as a form of biological warfare. A documented example occurred in 1763," - CorbieV 22:10, 27 September 2017 (UTC)


Suicide[edit]

I am interested in contributing information about the prevalence, causes, and context of suicide among Native American populations in the United States. There are plentiful academic resources available on the subject, and no significant Wikipedia coverage. Please see my user page for further information about me, as well as the sources I will prospectively be using. --Marycneal (talk) 16:24, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

I will be adding a subsection “5.9 Suicide” to the “Contemporary issues” section of this article. I plan to organize the subsection as follows: 5.9.1 Recent rates 5.9.2 Causation 5.9.3 Demographic correlations (including age, gender, and location) 5.9.4 Approaches to prevention.

If it proves to be more desirable, I will instead create a new article for “Suicide in Native Americans” with the same information and organization. Please see my user page for more information, such as my proposed sources. I welcome any comments or suggestions.--Marycneal (talk) 20:56, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

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Redskins Considered a Racial Slur[edit]

It states in this article that "Redskins" is considered a racial slur. It doesn't say who considers it a racial slur, and there is no citation. The fact is that many people consider it a racial slur and many people don't, including Native Americans who have gone on record to state they consider it an homage. This leads one to believe that the sentence in question refers to the opinion of the author of that sentence himself, and does not refer to any objective or verifiable fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.81.81.84 (talk) 18:28, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Date style, again, by the same person as last time[edit]

Linking to the archived previous rendition of this subject here Talk:Native_Americans_in_the_United_States/Archive_7#Date_Style, in case you forgot that this was decided several years ago, User:Primus128. Heiro 02:56, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Also, there was this Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_19#Cahokia on the same subject. Heiro 03:29, 8 December 2017 (UTC)


Each article is separate. If the BCE style was used first, that is the style that should be used. If BC, then that should be used. It's done to prevent people with an agenda from starting edit wars. I am assuming you must be one of those people with an agenda Primus128 (talk) 09:32, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Read both of those discussions linked above, they SPECIFICALLY DEAL WITH THIS ARTICLE. A consensus was reached for the date style on this article, to use the BCE/CE style. Do not revert this again. It was pointed out to you repeatedly in those discussions that your reading of MOS:ERA was incorrect. Heiro 18:16, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
Primus, why are you still claiming that WP:ERA says use the first style? In 2012 I wrote, in reply to you, "Primus, you've been reverting BCE on a number of articles over the past few months. You've been invoking something that WP:ERA specifically no longer says about the first style having priority." Also Look, you are using an argument about 'originally' that was removed from the guideline. If you didn't realise it had been changed, you should say so and back away, with hopefully an apology to show good faith. If you can't or won't do this, then it's hard to agree with you that you are only here to enforce the 'rules' (which I would take more seriously if you ever changed from BC to BCE". Do we need to take you to WP:ANI or will you admit that you are not correct about WP:ERA. Doug Weller talk 19:12, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
And when you took it to DRN, the moderator wrote "Primus, Dougweller has a good point - WP:ERA doesn't appear to actually say what you have said it does. It's probably a good idea to back off from this dispute now, before things get too heated; pursuing it further will not end well, in my opinion. There seems to be a consensus at both talk pages to keep the date styles as they have been for the last few years, and this is also supported by the present wording of WP:ERA. Also, I strongly recommend that you leave the article at its present version even after 24 hours is up, as edits do not have to break 3RR to be classed as edit warring. With a little more experience, you will realise that sometimes on Wikipedia you have to put up with things that you might not agree with, for the greater benefit of the encyclopaedia. There are times when it can be worth sticking up for something on this site, but I'm afraid that this does not look like one of them. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius 14:32, 11 February 2012 (UTC)" I doubt you've forgotten this. User:Parkwells was also involved in that discussion so I'll ping them. Doug Weller talk 19:17, 10 December 2017 (UTC)