Talk:Native Americans in the United States

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  • several POV sections, including European
  • In "Society", 3 groups are mentioned, Iroquois, Navajo and Pueblo. Are these 3 groups representative of "Native Americans"? And the various descriptions of arts and crafts, tribal stories, and relationships with the spirit world is random and hardly seems to describe "society", then or now.
  • "Religion", ignores the past and only talks about the "most widespread religion at the present time".
  • "Gender roles" hardly says anything--"social and clan relationships were matrilinear and matriarchal" with no elaboration--and ends after all of two sentences with: "The cradle board was used by mothers to carry their baby whilst working or traveling"?
  • "Economy" is a mash-up of references to dugouts, agriculture, tobacco, firearms and alcoholic beverages. This all seems very hastily written, doesn't summarize anything
  • Other sections are problematic in similar ways, particularly with sentences that are oddly worded or say nothing: "Native Americans were stunned to learn..." or "While exhibiting widely divergent social, cultural, and artistic expressions, all Native American groups worked with materials available to them and employed social arrangements that augmented their means of subsistence and survival."
  • no inline citations in "history" and several of the sections, "Other archaeologists have disputed the dating methodology employed, and have also suggested that these "artifacts" are naturally-formed, rather than of human manufacture. Other recent claims for pre-Clovis artifacts have similarly been made in some South American sites. The notion of pre-Clovis habitation continues to be a subject of scholarly debate, and the issue has not yet been satisfactorily resolved." - evidence of weasel words. I added an inline citation for that.
  • lots of weasel words—for example, "is believed to have reached the New World", "They are believed to have reached Alaska", and "molecular genetics studies have suggested". The first one I can't fix (I had nothing to do with writing the article), the second and third examples I found a reference for. The fourth I added "mitochondrial DNA", which I learned in biology but it would be best if somebody could verify this.
Former featured article candidate Native Americans in the United States is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
February 23, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted
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Name Calling=[edit]

The so-called Native Americans never considered themselves Americans, and prefer other stereotypical words such as native, indigenous, or aborigine, or often by their tribe's name. A message from a former elder and healer who recently died of cancer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by User: Helia.Dehghanzadeh Helia.Dehghanzadeh (talkcontribs) 17:24, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Why isn't the title just "Native American"[edit]

After all, Native American redirects to this page.--Prisencolinensinainciusol (talk) 22:18, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

While that redirect is odd it is the way it should be. This article is only about Native Americans in the US, not those elsewhere - but "Native American" is mostly used to describe US Natives so that is why the redirect goes here and not to Indigenous Peoples of the Americas. It is a problem with now perfect solution.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 22:26, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
In American English "Native American" refers not only to Indians in the USA but to all Indigenous Peoples of the Americas. See Native American naming controversy. Rmhermen (talk) 04:20, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
In fact American English "Native American" with overwhelming frequency refers to North American Native Americans - by far enough that that is the primary topic of that usage. It is quite rare to find Native American applied to South American indigenous groups.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 04:44, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
@Maunus: Have you found any statistics or search results to support this assertion? Jarble (talk) 22:32, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
I dont have quantitative evidence no. I happen to work with indigenous peoples of Latin America professionally and know that the literature hardly ever refer to them as "Native Americans". A quick google books search with the term "Native American" confirms this. And the Native American Encyclopedia[1] for example does not cover any cultures south of the US. Nor does Native American Architecture[2]. Or the Handbook of Native American Literature[3]. This is the typical pattern, works that include Latin American indigenous groups under the label are in the minority.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 23:28, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
But we can easily find the opposites as well - genetic studies of the skeleton of the "Native American girl" found in a Yucatan cave [4][5], Prevalence of problem drinking in a Venezuelan Native American population", the "Encyclopedia of American Indian Contributions to the World" which covers South American as well as North American, the National Museum of the American Indian whose collections cover "Native peoples of the Western Hemisphere (excluding Hawai’i)" but really only means the Americas. If usage was consistent we wouldn't have these repeated discussions. Rmhermen (talk) 13:49, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes, but I am convinced that the former pattern is predominant, and that users typing in "native american" as a search term are most likely to be interested in this article.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 21:41, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Without much regard for context, I'm incline to say that it should simply be Native American because WP:CONCISE. What ends up happening is that an editor uses the phrase "native american" in an article, referring to inidigeonous people of North America/US. Then, possibly being aware of MOS:NOPIPE, they will pipe the link to this page. This is makes the wikitext unecessarily complicated.Prisencolinensinainciusol (talk) 19:33, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Being aware of NOPIPE, they will... pipe it? That makes no sense. WP:NOPIPE says that if you're linking to Native American and that redirects here, you have no need to pipe that link explicitly. In case you meant "unaware", though, well, the guideline is there, and as with all guidelines, if some editors are unaware of it, other editors will correct their mistake and inform them of it, as is always the process with Wikipedia.
At the same time, WP:CONCISE definitely does not apply if there is considerable use in English (any English variety, by the way, since this is not the American English Wikipedia) of "Native Americans" to mean Native Americans somewhere that is not the United States. Even in this section above, Maunus seems to argue that the term is typically applied to North Americans natives, but not necessarily to just the ones in the US. So, really, no, Native Americans doesn't mean Native Americans in the US. LjL (talk) 17:35, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

No one knows what to call them, because there was never a name for the continents or their race. They are natives, or indigenous, but never considered themselves Americans in the past. Plus America has its own pseudo or unknown origins, dating back to Columbus, which is as fact as Peter Pan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Billy.kidd332211 (talkcontribs) 17:27, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Native American race[edit]

There seems to be a few definitions of Native American. While the US considers it as either being registered in a tribe regardless of racial composition or actually indigenous but only in the bounds of the US mainland, Alaska, and Hawaii while calling all other Native Americans "American Indians"(same thing), yet Native Americans are a race descended from proto-Mongoloids, ALL of them (Not just ones indigenous to all of the US).

I believe this wiki should include Native Americans from all over the Americas as its Native American race definition and not stick to the US shortsighted definition. It literally makes no sense that a Native American from South America would be wrong to identify as "Native American". What other race are they? Are they not native to the Americas? American Indian and Native American aren't separate races and aren't listed as such, even in the US. This is like pretending Native Americans in what is known as Latin America don't exist. All people of the Native American race should be included on this wiki. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.39.57 (talkcontribs) 05:32, 19 June 2015

Poles in mythology[edit]

Now we have a new article Poles in mythology, Please see and include suitable improvements , if any, in article Poles in mythology.

Rgds

Mahitgar (talk) 06:06, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

I was struggling to wonder why mythological Polishmen were being discussed here. That article is now titled Ceremonial pole with a header that says "not totem poles". The only other pole in Native American use that springs to my mind is in the Sun Dance but that is probably mostly a practical use than a religious object. Any other ideas? Rmhermen (talk) 19:52, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

The gallery of personalities from the infobox[edit]

I invite everybody to post their opinions at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups#The_necessity_of_galleries_of_personalities_in_the_infoboxes Hahun (talk) 15:41, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

RfC can be found here Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups#Proposal for the deletion of all the galleries of personalities from the articles about ethnic groups. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 02:15, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Native American: A legal or racial term?[edit]

I see it being used as both here. Things like "100 percent Native American" and whatnot. If it were just a legal term, you either are or are not. If 'Native American' has a racial meaning, why aren't indigenous people of the Americas--who are racially Native American too--included in this definition? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.37.244 (talk) 18:51, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Actually various legal definitions use various degree/percentages and it is all discussed in this article. What subject do you think we are missing? Native Americans (First people/indigenous peoples) outside the United States are discussed in different articles as is the totality (Indigenous peoples of the Americas). Rmhermen (talk) 19:58, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

There should be a clear distinction between the term when it is used broadly as "indigenous people of the Americas" and when it refers specifically to any person with ancestors indigenous to the US only. The prior is a "race" of people, the latter its legal definition in the United States only, which doesn't necessarily mean the first. We seem to be focusing on its legal definition exclusively; a US-centric view."Native American" also means indigenous people of the Americas in many definitions--including Oxford's. I suggest we create a disambiguation page for "Native American" as it means more than one thing. That or at least acknowledge it also refers all indigenous people of the Americas here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FB90:24BB:6AB:0:33:A59C:6401 (talk) 22:30, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

I continue to be puzzled. This article is called "Native Americans in the United States". It deal with Native Americans who are in the United States. Other subjects are dealt with in other articles. For instance First Nations, indigenous people of the Americas, Native Mexicans (Indigenous peoples of Mexico), Indigenous peoples in Argentina, etc. Rmhermen (talk) 02:46, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
It is also not just a legal definition in the US, that is why there is a distinction between enrolled citizens of Native American Nations, and non-enrolled or unrecognized Native Americans. So the term simply has many different sense, as do most words in the world, especially those that describe complicated social concepts. Nothing odd about that really. We don't have an article on "Native Mexicans" by the way and that concept makes no sense. Indigenous peoples of Mexico are also Native Americans. It is only in the US that the word "America" is considered synonymous with the US.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 03:02, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
But we do and it first line says: "Indigenous peoples of Mexico (Spanish: pueblos indígenas de México), Native Mexicans (Spanish: nativos mexicanos), or Mexican Indians (Spanish: indios mexicanos) are those who are part of communities that trace their roots back to populations and communities that existed in what is now Mexico prior to the arrival of Europeans." Rmhermen (talk) 03:05, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
I will change that because that is not a term that has any use by anyone.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 03:06, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Sure, currently the article is for US natives only but should it be? Perhaps the title should change to accommodate the broader "Native American", or said disambiguation of "Native American" into "Native Americans in the United States" and solely "Native American". There's an indigenous people of the Americas page and natives on the whole should be able to be referred to as Native Americans there because it's proper. Problem is, linking back to a Native American article would make it inaccurate given its legal definition being acknowledged only. If "Indigenous people of the Americas" and "Native American" are indeed synonymous, shouldn't a Native American article reflect this?

We already have articles describing the general case, the specific case, the specific history, multiple articles on the general history (Paleo-Indians, Pre-Columbian era, Settlement of the Americas, Archaeology of the Americas) and even the naming controversy. I am not convinced we need any more. What information do you want to add that you can't find a home for? Rmhermen (talk) 19:50, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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Proposed edit to "Current legal status" section.[edit]

I want to make an edit to the “Current legal status section.” I want to make an edit to the first sentence of this paragraph as I feel like it uses an opinion, and does not back it up with a source. The sentence details the feelings/opinions of Native Americans on the United States government, but does not give a credible source to back up this opinion. I plan to add this source to the first sentence,(http://thorpe.ou.edu/guide/robertson.html) to show that the U.S. State and Federal governments have tried to regulate goings on in the Reservations. What do you guys think? Let me know. Thespartan41 (talk) 04:54, 19 April 2016 (UTC)