|WikiProject Computing / Software||(Rated C-class, Low-importance)|
|WikiProject Apple Inc.||(Rated C-class, Mid-importance)|
- 1 Please Put a picture of NeXTSTEP on article
- 2 Slashdot
- 3 Why NeXT didn't succeed
- 4 Name casing
- 5 Kernel type
- 6 window maker
- 7 Requested move - 2006
- 8 Suggested addition of specific web browser shortcuts/features
- 9 Who developed it?
- 10 NeXT bought for how much? And when?
- 11 Notes
- 12 Unclear
- 13 Consensus on capitalization of name (NEXTSTEP? NeXTSTEP? NeXTStep?)
- 14 Copyright license
- 15 Proposed rename to NeXTSTEP
- 16 Multics family
- 17 Requested move (21h00 16 September 2009)
- 18 Requested move 4?
- 19 Capitalization
- 20 fatal non-knowledge error in description pane: „succeeded by OS X, iOS” is absolutely wrong
Please Put a picture of NeXTSTEP on article
IT's been done.
This slashdot article linked here today. That explains the sudden influx of anonymous vandals on November 12, but it does not excuse them. Vandalism seems to follow Slashdot referrals like clockwork; it's really starting to get old. --Ardonik.talk()* 06:47, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)
Why NeXT didn't succeed
Might be worth adding a paragraph explaining why NeXT never became immensely successful in the marketplace. As I heard it (this needs to be confirmed), they marketed their system purely towards educational institutions, rather than commercial ones. This was their mistake, and by the time they realized it, their technology was getting out of date or something. 22.214.171.124 17:59, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- The trouble is - quoting you: 'as I heard it'. 'As I heard it' does not qualify as historical research. At best it's speculation anyway - but falling back on 'as I heard it' - rather forget the whole thing. What you CAN do is offer citations from pundits as to their opinions - keep it factual at all times. Finally: by the time of the merger NeXT were in fact floating fairly well with profits in the hundreds of millions per year. Even thinking this is an NS issue is - well 'stupid'. It has to do with the entire industry, the PC standard, so many other things - not just the anal retentive behaviour of Steven Paul Jobs.
- I don't know that anyone here is omniscient enough to know the real reason; what we can do is to quote the theories put forth by technology analysts. I note that NeXT has some observations buried in the narrative, if not a concise summary of the various theories. Stan 06:14, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)::Exactly!
- I've heard that they only marketed towards educational institutions because of the results of a lawsuit that limited them to the workstation market.
- Again: that's an 'I heard'. It does not qualify.
The article is NEXTSTEP, the main text uses NeXTSTEP and the text notes it should be NeXTstep. Soooo... which is it? If it really is NeXTstep, I would suggest we change all of them to match. Maury 14:51, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- I thought you would know that the casing isn't really all that consistent from the beginning? The problem is early NeXT docs used "NeXTstep", the operating system itself used "NEXTSTEP", but the format that everybody seems to "like" to use is NeXTSTEP. Dysprosia 22:09, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- And I presumed people contributing to this article would know the REAL meaning of each form? The most prevalent is NeXTSTEP - this follows their $100 K logo of course. NEXTSTEP appeared later but what I know only these two forms were ever used. And yes, as things stand, this important article is a mess in that regard (and in many others too it need not be pointed out).
- Well, even if NeXT itself was not consistent with their own name, Wikipedia should be. --Bletch 01:34, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- 'Was' matches 'their'??!?? Oh and for the record: they were always consistent. If you haven't studied their corporate history properly and don't know why they changed case and when it's not their fault.
- Horse radish. Look at the link, Einstein! '/AboutNeXT/'. This is too rich. Someone delving into the subject for five minutes comes and says 'in ALL their press releases'. Oh yeah.
--- Just my two-cents: It seems the case differences of the name "NeXTStep" (Ed:1) occurred over time as the versions of the NeXT OS were changing. Given the version numbers were changing while they were bantering the case of the letters in the OS's name, and case sensitivity was an issue (to management) at the time, wouldn't this mean that various versions had different names in a case-sensitive sense?
- More nonsense. Study the corporate history? Why do you think they paid Rand $100,000 for 'NeXT'??!??
((Ed:1) "NeXTStep" is a CamelCase version they never used by the way--I just combined "NeXT" and "Step" for the purposes of this entry.)
- Yes and that was bad and completely arbitrary and wrong of you.
I agree that Wikipedia should be name-consistent (as I'm a rabid-lover of sensible-and-simply-coherence and regular-consistency), so I propose an idea to all-reading. (Take it or leave it, you're all meaningful and this is just an idea for-convention).
- Where do these people (not) learn to write?
(a) The article should have the most up to date name of the OS, which is "NEXTSTEP"
- No. It is 'NeXTSTEP'.
(b) If referring to a all versions of the OS en-masse, call the aggregate "Nextstep"
- No. This is wrong. The only aggregate you may speak of is 'OpenStep' which is an API standard. NeXT's implementation of OpenStep is called OPENSTEP. The case thing only occurs with OpenStep - not NeXTSTEP. Jobs paid Paul Rand $100,000 for a logo with 'NeXT' - NOT 'NEXT'. That says it all. If they right before their segue to OPENSTEP did a fast dance with 'NEXTSTEP' - that changes nothing.
(c) If referring to a specific version of the OS, use the name for the OS at the time ("NextStep", "NeXTstep", "NeXTSTEP", or "NEXTSTEP").
- Yes of course.
I gotta thank Steve Jobs & folks for the case fun! I'm smiling and giggling a little at the whole phenomena. I just love computer naming conventions! Oh, the creativity!!
- You're making it into something way more than it was.
--Ed 04:40, 16 September 2007 (UTC) ---
- Not sure I agree with the usage of "Nextstep" - this particular casing was never used by NeXT, so essentially, you've just made it up! I think we should go with whatever was the most common form used in official NeXT documentation. Letdorf 09:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC).
- 'Not sure I agree with the usage of "Nextstep" - this particular casing was never used by NeXT' - exactly. It was not. The trouble is we have wannabe historians here who aren't willing to do the research. 'so essentially, you've just made it up' - quite right again! 'I think we should go with whatever was the most common form used in official NeXT documentation.' - That's not arbitrary. You are FORCED to do that - if you wish this website to have any cred at all. And guess what the most prevalent form at NeXT was?
- The prevalent spelling at NeXT towards the end of the company's life time was NEXTSTEP (all caps). You can see it in the screenshots at  from the boot progress window when the OS was booting up and the template welcome email from Steve Jobs which greeted you when you created a new user account and logged in to check your emails on the system. You can also see it written like this in the press release published at the time Apple and NeXT merged here: 126.96.36.199 (talk) 02:30, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
I'll copy this message here (paraphrased). Could someone provide some concrete evidence for the claim that Mach is POE-ized (that is, has the servers in the kernel)? It's not that I don't believe that Mach in NeXTSTEP is not a microkernel, I'd just like to see something written down. I do have NeXTSTEP and OPENSTEP, so if someone could provide me with some sort of way of verifying that the Mach kernel is POE-ized, that would be useful. Thanks Dysprosia 07:45, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
- If you have NeXTStep/OPENSTEP/Rhapsody, run 'strings' on the kernel (/mach_kernel) or look at it in a hex editor and you wil find references to things like filesystems, networking, and Unix system calls, which would make it a hybrid kernel. Also, if you run 'nm' on the kernel, you will find symbols for Unix system calls. 188.8.131.52 09:57, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
- Mach itself was a microkernel design, however NeXT had to modify it for performance reasons. Bear in mind the initial NeXT machines were sporting 25 MHz processors, so performance optimisation was critical. Keeping Mach as a pure microkernel, with the device drivers implemented outside in user space and passing messages back and forth to communicate with the kernel, real world performance would have been too slow for practical usage. For this reason, NeXT's implementation integrated the performance-critical drivers and system calls into the kernel itself, making it a hybrid variant of Mach. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 02:06, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
the Next gui is alive, now its name is [Window maker]
Suggested addition of specific web browser shortcuts/features
The end of this article states
- The first web browser, WorldWideWeb, was developed on the NeXTSTEP platform. Some features and keyboard shortcuts now commonly found in web browsers can be traced to originally being native features of NeXTSTEP, which other web browsers for other operating systems later reimplemented as features of the browser itself.
As soon as I read that, I wondered what features those might be? Ctrl-D for making bookmarks, perhaps? (I'm just speculating because I've always wondered.) Anyways, if anyone has read about this somewhere or remembers using the NeXTSTEP browser and is aware of some specifics, I think it'd be really nice to read about them. Itsameanick 09:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC).
- It reads like something that has been passed down and passed down etc. The problem is that, even if e.g. Ctrl-D originated as a shortcut in Nextstep, how can it be proved that subsequent browsers copied this, rather than coming up with the same formulation independently? I dislike the passiveness of "can be traced". -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 10:37, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Who developed it?
- From the look of the image on the right, Lee Boynton, Jean-Marie Hullot, Bertrand Serlet, and Keith Ohlfs; I know for a fact that Avie Tevanian was involved as well (he was also working at NeXT). Dysprosia 01:36, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- Lee, Jean-Marie, Bertrand and Keith are the folks who created Workspace Manager, which is the file management application on NEXTSTEP and OPENSTEP (the equivalent to the Finder on a Mac or Windows Explorer on Windows). They have contributed to other parts of the system as well, however if you're asking about the whole OS in its entirety, dozens of other engineers have been involved in creating it. Avie was certainly involved in implementing the kernel as well as other parts of the system, but there were many other contributors.220.127.116.11 (talk) 02:37, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
NeXT bought for how much? And when?
The article shows that "On February 4, 1997 Apple Computer acquired NeXT for $427 million", but on Steve Jobs article it says that In "1996, Apple bought NeXT for $402 million"... I guess at least one of them is wrong. 18.104.22.168 13:07, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- Notes are for footnotes cited in the article. – Mipadi 13:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Beneath the table in "Versions", which goes up to the 4.0 beta, it says "Versions up to 4.2 were published, the last version 4.2 after purchase of NeXT by Apple". What does this mean? OPENSTEP? If so, be explicit. I know very little about this subject, and can't work it out. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 01:24, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
- NEXTSTEP 3.3 and OPENSTEP 4.2 are not the same. OPENSTEP is a descendent that came after NEXTSTEP and brought new frameworks and capabilities. Most differences are in the APIs and frameworks, so apply mostly to programmers. From a user's perspective, the two look similar but OPENSTEP can run OPENSTEP apps and it's also backwards compatible with NEXTSTEP, in other words you can run NEXTSTEP apps on an OPENSTEP system without modification. The opposite is not the case, so you couldn't run an app designed and compiled for OPENSTEP under a NEXTSTEP system.126.96.36.199 (talk) 02:45, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
Consensus on capitalization of name (NEXTSTEP? NeXTSTEP? NeXTStep?)
Persistently moving this article based on someone's view of what is the correct capitalization of the system is somewhat pointless. Can we settle on one and be done with it? -- Switchfoot (talk) 22:15, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, I'd vote for any capitalization that there is evidence to suggest was actually used by NeXT... ie. pretty much anything except the current "Nextstep" :-). Letdorf (talk) 00:46, 27 October 2008 (UTC).
- Just to follow myself up, I know WP:MOSTM says we should ignore wacky capitalization in trademarks, but I think this guideline is worth taking issue with. Nobody seems to have objected to the title of the article about NeXT (an FA-Class article, no less) and deliberately referring to NeXT as "Next" would just seem willfully wrong. Letdorf (talk) 10:55, 27 October 2008 (UTC).
- WP:MOSTM doesn't actually appear to say such a thing, at least not to me: it says that CamelCase in trademarked names is a "judgment call." I agree that NeXTstep seems more appropriate and propose moving the article there, though I think I agree with Letdorf (talk · contribs) that just about anything that was actually used by NeXT Inc. at some time would be fine. Tim Pierce (talk) 20:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Is there is still copyrighted code originally produced by AT&T in Nextstep? What sort of license was obtained from AT&T, and are royalties still paid to Novell or SCO? -- Beland (talk) 14:58, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
- The UNIX code came from the Berkeley Software Distribution of UNIX and hence, was brought into NeXTSTEP under sundry free BSD licenses. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:35, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
Proposed rename to NeXTSTEP
Requested move (21h00 16 September 2009)
Requested move 4?
There seems to be no consensus at all as to whether NeXTstep, NeXTSTEP, or NEXTSTEP is correct, as NeXT itself was never consistant, so why don't we just vote on the damn thing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 05:22, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
fatal non-knowledge error in description pane: „succeeded by OS X, iOS” is absolutely wrong
NeXTStep was never owned by Apple and was never available on the Macintosh platform, only in a demonstrational „quick'n'dirty” hacked version that never was sold to Apple nor used on the m68k hardware. NeXT was founded by a co-founder of Apple, that much is correct. But NeXT and Apple went completely seperate ways. NeXT was a manufacturer of i386/i486 IBM-Clone PCs, eg. the NEXTCube (the most famous computer by them). Please correct this. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 12:09, 2 April 2015 (UTC)