Talk:Neman (river)

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Udra=Oder(Otter), Veisla=Vysla, Nemunas=Rubon, Prieglius=Chronos are originaly Lithuanian rivers[edit]

All those Lithuanian names Udra, Veisla, Prieglius and Nemunas were named long before poles and germans appeared in the region.

kindergarden[edit]

Shouldn't this be at "Niemen"? That's what I've always seen it as. john k 20:21, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

No, it should be at "Nemunas" which is both a lithuanian and english name. Neman is an anglicized russian name. Space Cadet 20:27, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

On what basis do you say "Nemunas" is the English name? I've never seen it before. The river, it should be noted, flows through Russian and Belarussian territory as well as Lithuanian. A google search of English pages revels 20,000 for "Niemen" and only 5,000 for "Nemunas". On the other hand, a comparison of "Niemen River", "Nemunas River" and "Neman River" puts "Nemunas River" in the lead...I dunno. Columbia has its article at "Neman River", as does Britannica... john k 21:11, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Odra river flows through Poland (a bit through Czech republic) and only alongside part of German border, but the "official English name" is supposedly Oder. Russian name is Nyeman. But I'll go along with "Neman". The Polish name Niemen would raise hell in edit wars, considering the semi-official anti-Polish profile of the WIKI.Space Cadet 02:53, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I thought I was the anti-Polish zealot. At any rate, "Niemen River" is most commonly used in historical descriptions. For instance, one always says that Napoleon and Alexander met on a raft in the Niemen (not the Memel or the Neman or the Nemunas). But it seems to be idiosyncratic enough that just going with Britannica and Columbia would probably be best. john k 19:49, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Just to add, that the Oder/Odra River is "supposed to be" called the Oder because that is what people call it in English. I have no particular idea what people use in English for the Neman/Niemen/Nemunas/Memel River. My Lonely Planet guide says "Nemunas", encyclopedias seem to use "Neman", history books usually use "Niemen"...I can only say that Memel is almost certainly inappropriate... john k 20:00, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Just Google "Odra river" and see if Odra is not used in English. I'm definitely behind going with Britannica on the Neman issue. Space Cadet 20:52, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Odra is sometimes used in English, certainly. As, apparently, is Nemunas. With river names, the local names are often used when referring to them. For instance, we also see English usage of, say, Maas River, or Rhein River, occasionally. But the more generally used names are Oder, Meuse, Rhine. I don't particularly mind articles specifically about Polish geography using "Odra" to describe the river, so long as the article itself remains at Oder, but you're the one who's always on about consistency... john k 21:52, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes I am. Space Cadet 22:53, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Let me tell you as really it is: actual name of this river always was, is now and always will be Nemunas. All other names are different interpretations on russicized name (Nieman). So the real article should point to Nemunas and all other variations should be redirects to it eLNuko 08:44, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

An interesting statement in which the definition of "always" seems to exclude a few centuries. The 1911 Britannica mentioned Memel (as river and town), but not Nemunas nor Neman (nor Klaipeda). Denying such facts is nationalistic POV, especially regarding the forceful way in which Lithuania took the Memelland region north of the Memel away from Germany in 1923. The south bank of the Memel remained undisputedly German until 1945, now its Russian. I encourage editors to establish NPOV on these issues. --Matthead 20:34, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

BE 1911 usese the name "Niemen", See Talk:Memel (disambiguation) --Philip Baird Shearer 09:43, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Nemunas is notable in English, take a look, the name Nemunas is of Baltic origin. Alternative names are allowed in lead.--Lokyz 14:44, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Alternate names[edit]

How about if we restrict its alternate names to those countries in which it currently flows, borders, or (by historic definitions) has flowed? That would eliminate its Greek and, I think, Estonian names. Novickas 15:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Any proofs of greeks calling it Χρόνος? Sounds like some unofficial name and added by neo-paganists guys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.240.42.28 (talk) 01:09, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

The Greek name isn't relevant anyway, it doesn't flow through Greece. I'll remove it. Totnesmartin (talk) 10:24, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Fishportal construction development to Neman river?[edit]

Hello,

Does anyone know is there any project or research going on to build fish portal to the river? I read that Neman river is major stream and non of sea fishes can enter to their sprawning springs. Neman river -before building damp. Was major salomon etc. fishes to travel.

Possible Illyrian etymology?[edit]

Hi. I accidentaly found (reading an article about Prokletije mountains) very interesting thing that Nemuna in Albanian means cursed. Maybe it could be any etymological conections with ancient Illyria? Like also that story about Chronos River somewhere in the north or possible conections between Lithuania and Thrace (as sugested by Jonas Basanavičius). Because it doesn't seem that Nemunas could be Baltic name. Hugo.arg (talk) 20:03, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

You should take into account pronouncation - Nemunas in lithuanian is pronounced as Ņamunas. As for river name as Cursed river - it's unheard combination in this region, because rivers are thought to be source of fertility - there are quite many Sacred rivers, though. Nemunas river flows through land, that initially was not lithuanian and was inhabitated by baltic prussian(not germans!) and Yatvingians. Since western baltics are quite diverse from eastern baltics, there could be some different explanation for the name. 92.40.248.76 (talk) 23:40, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

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