Talk:Newar language

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Citation needed[edit]

  • The article says, "Hindi is not a mother tongue in Nepal". हो र ? According to the 1991 census (via http://www.ethnologue.com/14/show_country.asp?name=Nepal), Nepal has 1,70,997 Hindi speakers. I assume they mean native speakers of Hindi; otherwise the number would be much higher. This should be clarified. 69.232.222.19 07:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Hindi is my mother tongue...Bhojpuri /awadhi/maithili are dialects of Hindi

Thanks for the information. It must have been overlooked. It is now corrected. Hindi is very similar to Maithili, Bhojpuri and Nepali. So, people of cities esp in Terai understand it. I could not find any information on second and third language of Nepalese population. However, as far as I know, in places where there are no cable lines and Hindi channels, the comprehensibility of Hindi is low even in Terai region (however, this should not be confused with Maithili or Bhojpuri which are the dominant languages in terai). In Chure, Hills or Mountains, people almost do not understand Hindi outside cities. As you have mentioned, more than 80 percent of Nepalese population do understand Hindi by now thanks to Nepal Television's regular broadcast of Mumbai based Hindi programs (not a single program of Nepalese Hindi speakers have been telecasted in Nepal Television till date). Thanks again.--Eukesh 12:57, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
According to Maithili_language, Maithili is a language, not a dialect. Is the article incorrect? Kushal (talk) 00:10, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Move page [I][edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: provisionally moved back to Nepal Bhasa. This is, however, not an endorsement of a currently valid consensus for that title. While there is a clear numerical preponderance of editors who have argued with much personal conviction for this move, most of the arguments offered are merely based on the editors' subjective feeling that the term is historically more appropriate, apparently reflecting a politically motivated preference by members of the native speech community, but make little contact with the one question that is the sole decisive criterion according to our naming policies: What is the predominant usage in high-quality English language sources? About this question, based on the policy-conforming arguments as proposed so far, there is no consensus, with apparently a strong case being made that "Newari" might actually win out. This being a non-consensus situation, I am moving the page back to its long-term title before the bold move to "Newari" in May 2014, especially in order to avoid inconsistency with the (currently protected) article text, but I do encourage resubmission of an RM in favour of "Newari" on the basis of proper documentation in sources if that is felt appropriate, and I advise editors and future RM closers that only policy-conformant !votes should be taken into account then. Fut.Perf. 11:27, 31 July 2014 (UTC) Fut.Perf. 11:27, 31 July 2014 (UTC)



Newari languageNepal Bhasa – The page was called Nepal Bhasa before a hostile move from non-contributing user. Nepal Bhasa is the official name of the language as per Government of Nepal (see image in the article). Nepal Bhasa is the common/standard name used by language regulating bodies in their publications, including Nepal Bhasa Academy, Nepal Bhasa Parishad, Tribhuwan University Central Department of Nepal Bhasa (the only higher academic institution of Nepal Bhasa studies in the world) and various organizations (Chwasa Pasa, Asha Archives, Pasa Pucha International, World Newah Organization, Newah Organization of America), media (Dharmodaya, Matina Internation magazine, The Rising Nepal, Image Channel, Nepalmandal, local FMs), mobile apps(Nepal Bhasa dictionary), journals (Journal of Newah Studies), Buddhist organizations and native speakers. The term "Newari" has been listed as pejorative term by Ethnologue (there is negative connotation associated with the term "Newari" in the native community). A majority of work on the language (in English, Nepal Bhasa, Nepali and Hindi) are yet not available online, primarily due to the digital divide. So, it is very hard to find stuffs about it online. However, a list of sources and links will be added below. Eukesh (talk) 16:57, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Use of "Nepal Bhasa"[edit]

The term "Nepal Bhasa" is used in English, officially as well as commonly. Here are some examples and facts about its use-

Thank you--Eukesh (talk) 17:11, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

  • Oppose. This is a linguistic article, and we should follow the preponderance of linguistic sources. According to Hargreaves ("Kathmandu Newar", in LaPolla & Thurgood, eds., The Sino-Tibetan Languages, 2006), "Nepal Bhasa" is Kathmandu Newari -- that is, it's the standard form or prestige dialect of the language, not the language as a whole. Moving this article to "Nepal Bhasa" would therefore be like moving "French" to "Parisian" to "English" to "Received Pronunciation". Hargreaves describes the situation as follows:

Nepāl Bhāśā (Kathmandu Newar) ... is the language of the Newars of the Kathmandu Valley of Nepal. The term Nepāl Bhāśā and the colloquial term /newa bhæː/ are the traditional Newar terms, although Western and Newar linguists publishing outside Nepal have usually used the term Newari, and more recently, Newar.

Publications which use "Newari" include
  • Kamal Prakash Malla, The Newari Language: A Working Outline, and Classical Newari Literature
  • Tej R. Kansakar, Essential Newari Phrasebook: A Self-taught Guide to Conversational Newari
  • Iswaranand Sresthacharya, Newari root verbs
  • Thakur Lal Manandhar, Newari-English dictionary
  • the Library of Congress Subject Headings
  • I could go on and on. Overall, a Google Books search claims 60k hits for "Newari" but only 4k for "Nepal Bhasa" -- and most of the top-ranked of those are either mirrors of Wikipedia or mention "Nepal Bhasa" as an alternative name while using "Newari" in the text (e.g. Genetti A Grammar of Dolakha Newar). Even the restricted search "Newar language" turns up better results than the ones used to argue for a move. The preponderance of sources is clear, and the fact that Newar linguists use "Newari" belies the claim that it's pejorative.
kwami (talk) 23:23, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Wikipedia is supposed to be based on WP:SPOV. Hargreaves, David (2006). The Sino-Tibetan Languages. Routledge. p. 371. , quite succinctly summarizes the matter:

KATHMANDU NEWAR (NEPAL BHASA)
Nepal Bhasa (Kathmandu Newar), spoken by approximately 690,000 speakers, is the language of the Newars of the Kathmandu Valley of Nepal (Kansakar 1997). The term Nepal Bhasa and the colloquial term /newa bhae:/ are the traditional Newar terms, alghough Western and Newar linguists publishing outside Nepal have usually used the term Newari, and more recently, Newar.

No such user (talk) 07:36, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm writing to report content of this page as misleading and false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newar_language

Nepal Bhasa is one of the languages of Nepal, which is also known as Newa Bhaye, but official usage is Nepal Bhasa. Some people are misleadingly vandalizing the content of this page by preposterously naming it as "Newar language" without any scientific evidence and official resources. No one even calls it "Newar language". Enough proofs have been made in the talk section by other users in buttress of the term "Nepal Bhasa," but each time we try to revert it to the original term, some people are vandalizing it desperately. Kindly help solve this issue on the basis of truth, fairness and equality among the users. Looking forward to hearing from you.

I have requested mediation here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/It%27s_%22Nepal_Bhasa%22.

Comments on the opposition[edit]

Regarding "This is a linguistic article"

This is an encyclopedic article about a language. All aspects of languages need to be addressed.

Regarding "and we should follow the preponderance of linguistic sources."

That is your point of view. There might have been a preponderance of archaic literature, it does not mean that it is true.

Regarding "According to Hargreaves ("Kathmandu Newar", in LaPolla & Thurgood, eds.,The Sino-Tibetan Languages, 2006), "Nepal Bhasa" is Kathmandu Newari -- that is, it's the standard form or prestige dialect of the language, not the language as a whole. Moving this article to "Nepal Bhasa" would therefore be like moving "French" to "Parisian" to "English" to "Received Pronunciation". "

Not really, sources:
  • papers like "Verb inflection in the Dolakha dialect of Nepal Bhasa" by Shrestha, Rudra Laxmi (1989)
  • In “A Grammar of Dolakha Newar”, Carol Genetti, writes “The Speakers of the Kathmandu dialect refer to their language as “Newa: bhae”, this being the modern reflex of “Nepal Bhasa” after the application of regular sound changes. This term, while perhaps being appropriate for the Kathmandu dialect, is not the ideal choice to refer to the family of dialects as a whole, especially those like Dolakhe, which did not undergo the same sound changes as the Kathmandu dialect”

which means that “Newa: bhae” is not representive, “Nepal Bhasa” is.

  • Gorkhapatra, in its regional language secion, has a section for both these dialects, which are called "Nepal Bhasa" and "Dolakhali Nepal Bhasa".
Regarding "Hargreaves describes the situation as follows:

Nepāl Bhāśā (Kathmandu Newar) ... is the language of the Newars of the Kathmandu Valley of Nepal. The term Nepāl Bhāśā and the colloquial term /newa bhæː/are the traditional Newar terms, although Western and Newar linguists publishing outside Nepal have usually used the term Newari, and more recently, Newar."

  • The quote does not say that Kathmandu Dialect is Nepal Bhasa. In fact, it says that there is a shift from “Newari” to Newar.
Regarding "Publications which use "Newari" include

• Kamal Prakash Malla, The Newari Language: A Working Outline, and Classical Newari Literature • Tej R. Kansakar, Essential Newari Phrasebook: A Self-taught Guide to Conversational Newari • Iswaranand Sresthacharya, Newari root verbs • Thakur Lal Manandhar, Newari-English dictionary • the Library of Congress Subject Headings"

  • The publications that you have mentioned were published in 80s, second dark age era, when a book could be banned if it had the words “Nepal Bhasa” in it. Also, it was long before the standardization of the name by the Government of Nepal. There were publications calling the language “Nevari” and a whole lot of variants. So, it does not really mean anything at all.
Regarding "I could go on and on. Overall, a Google Books search claims 60k hits for "Newari" but only 4k for "Nepal Bhasa" -- and most of the top-ranked of those are either mirrors of Wikipedia or mention "Nepal Bhasa" as an alternative name while using "Newari" in the text (e.g. Genetti A Grammar of Dolakha Newar)."
  • Like I mentioned before, a large volume of native publications are not available online. So, you can not judge by the hits you get in google books. Also, in book search, I found that there were 13,700,000 hits for Calcutta and 1,120,000 hits for Kolkata. So, why don’t you change the article Kolkata first? Btw, similar results can be found for Cochin vs Kochi, Trivandrum vs Thiruvananthapuram and many other subjects pertaining to South Asia. Do all of us a favor and change those articles first.
  • Also, unlike the term “Nepal Bhasa”, Newari can be used for anything from Newar architecture, to Newar culture to Newar cuisine, to Newar festivals to almost anything pertaining to Newars. The term Nepal Bhasa can be spelt as “Nepalabhasha”, “Nepal bhasha”, “Nepaalabhasha” and so on. So, it is basically a useless argument.
Regarding "Even the restricted search "Newar language" turns up better results than the ones used to argue for a move. The preponderance of sources is clear, and the fact that Newar linguists use "Newari" belies the claim that it's pejorative."
  • About pejorative, it is, some sources-
    • In “The Newar verb in Tibeto-Burman perspective” George van Driem from Rijksuniversiteit Leiden writes “Use of the Nepali term 'Newari' by English speakers, with its Indo-Aryan suffix, is increasingly felt to be objectionable by Newars.”
    • In “A Grammar of Dolakha Newar”, Carol Genetti writes “...some people in Newar community including some prominent Newar linguists consider the derivation suffix “i” found in the term Newari to constitute an “Indianization” ….These people thus hold the opinion that the term Newari is non-respectful to Newar culture."
  • Again, online preponderance does not mean anything. This is an encyclopedia, not a popularity contest. Like I mentioned earlier, "Calcutta" is more preponderant than “Kolkata”. It means nothing. The standard terms need to be used, not the terms that are trending in the internet. I believe this is Wikipedia and not twitter. Thank you--Eukesh (talk) 05:30, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Support renaming and moving Newari language to Nepal Bhasa as it was before[edit]

Support renaming and moving Newari language to Nepal Bhasa and rebuttal to arguments against.

  • Imposition of the term Newari and discouragement of the term Nepal Bhasa has been one of the tools used to suppress the language. Following the establishment of democracy in 1951, the name Nepal Bhasa began to be used more frequently. But since the 1960s after parliamentary democracy was abolished, the term again fell into official disfavour. The term Newari had to be used in notices and advertisements or they would not be published by the government media. Newar linguists, authors and publishers also used the term Newari to prevent rejection.
  • After the reinstatement of democracy in 1990, language lovers lobbied to have the name of the language reinstated which resulted in the government directives of 8 September 1995 and 13 November 1998.
See https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Its_nepal_bhasa_clipping_9sept95.jpg
and https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nepal_bhasa_trn14nov98.jpg
  • Regarding the references that have been cited to support the name Newari, I would urge readers to take a second look at them.
  • Dr. Anne Vergati who edited Thakur Lal Manandhar's Newari English Dictionary has written on page xi of the dictionary as follows:
The word Newar is of relatively recent usage. Previously the word Nepal referred only to the Valley; the language of its inhabitants was known as Nepāl-bhasā.
  • Kamal Prakash Malla, author of Classical Newari Literature, has written this on page 1 of the book:
The Capuchin missionaries who arrived in Nepal in the late 17th century and early 18th century, and the 19th-century British authors such as Kirkpatrick, Hamilton, and Hodgson popularized the term “Newāri”. The language, however, was called “Nepāla Bhāsā” in manuscripts dated since A.D. 1380 and inscriptions dated since A.D. 1410.
Following Jorgensen (1936; 1941), the term "classical Newari" is used here as a descriptive term, not as a term of literary or critical evaluation, to refer to the older dialects of Newari used mostly in manuscripts dated between ca. A. D. 1360-1900 (i.e., before modern Newari was set to printing).
See http://www.kpmalla.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Classical-Newari-Literature.pdf
  • Regarding the "preponderance of linguistic sources" and hits on Google, nothing needs to be added to what has already been said above. Zulufive (talk) 06:25, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Support Nepal Bhasa[edit]

Since Nepal Bhasa is the historical, officially endorsed and preferred name of the speakers, it should be retained as the title of the article.

From the context of Wiki policy, here are some points taken from Wikipedia:Article titles:

1. If the name of a person, group, object, or other article topic changes, then more weight should be given to the name used in reliable sources published after the name change than in those before the change.

2. When there are multiple names for a subject, all of them fairly common, and the most common has problems, it is perfectly reasonable to choose one of the others.

3. If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed. Karrattul (talk) 12:00, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Support Nepal Bhasa[edit]

Country Nepal took the name from Kathmandu Valley when it used to be called Nepal , before conquest and annexation into Gorkha Empire , now called Nepal , by king Prithivi Narayan Shah . More info Thus the language of Nepal of then is Nepal Bhasha . Nepal Bhasha and Nepali Bhasha are both different and valid .

I request that for the language that all Nepalese can be proud of please do not link it to only Newar Caste , Please revert it back Nepal Bhasha --saroj (talk) 19:01, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Nepal Bhasa[edit]

I oppose the hostile move to unilaterally change the article Nepal Bhasa. I am sorry but I can't assume good faith when there is a change that is clearly against the wishes of the community. I request a revert. Nepal Bhasa is not ambiguous at all. It strictly refers to Nepal Bhasa. Historically speaking, the word Nepal refers to the valley. The revisionist attitude is unacceptable. Thank you. Kushal (talk) 22:42, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Nepal Bhasa is its proper name, not a common name for anyone to change[edit]

In present Nepal, there are 123 languages according to Census of Nepal, 2011. In the ancient Nepal, there were Nepal Bhasa, Sanskrit, Pali, Prakrit, Maithil. New languages including Khas (Gorkhali), Tharu, Bhojpuri, Magar, Gurung, Sherpa, Limbu etc became parts of Nepal as dividends as Gorkhali king Prithvinarayan invaded Nepal in 1769 and went on conquering other independent principalities.

The Gorkhali language displaced Nepal Bhasa since then but the latter was spoken by Shah kings and later Rana rulers, and even by Gorkhali descendant kings such as Tribuvan, Mahendra, and even Gyanendra. Since the Gorkhali came into power, they not only replaced Nepal Bhasa the state language of Nepal but also reduced Nepal Bhasa into 'Newari' and named Gorkhali as Nepali usurping from Nepal Bhasa. All this was possible because the Gorkhalis were in power. As a result even the scholars, the Khas/Gorkhali/Nepali Bhasa speaking scholars use 'Newari' for Nepal Bhasa. And foreigners simply copy the term and wrote Newari in their "scholarly" papers in the West. So 'Newari' is English it seems. 'Nepal Bhasa' is not English, it seems. Even I myself thought `Newari` was the correct term for Nepal Bhasa, until I came to know the truth and the original name of it as Nepal Bhasa.

So in short, I request those who oppose the use of Nepal Bhasa to kindly read books (printed) before being prejudiced and haste to change the name of Nepal Bhasa into 'Newari' which is condemned by the user community. One important book is Nyayavikasini (in Sanskrit and Nepal Bhasa)[Nyayabikasini in Khas/Gorkhali/Nepali] in which the term 'Nepal Bhasa' is clearly written. This was the first law in the world dated 1380 AD.).

In response to the Khas/Gorkhali/Nepali speakers using Newari for Nepal Bhasa, the Nepal Bhasa speakers call Khas/Gorkhali/Nepali language as "Pakhe" language. So since someone willfully changed Nepal Bhasa into 'Newari,' should we also follow him/her to replace all 'Nepali' articles published on Wikipedia as "Pakhe" language? We do NOT think so. But if someone insists, then we will also have to waste our time for changing so called 'Nepali' into 'Pakhe'.

One last point and request to Wikipedia administration: Just because someone (without proper concern and knowledge) wants to change the name of a language, can it be allowed? Needless to say names are holy to those who own them. If Wikipedia lets the prejudiced people change the these holy names as they like, then Wikipedia will lose its respect from the informed people. The name of Nepal Bhasa is being displayed now as 'Newari' language as if even the Wikipedia is recognizing one prejudiced man's willful revision. This will create a unnecessary confusion. It may be someone's right to be confused. But he or she has no right to confuse others. So lets be informed and support Nepal Bhasa as it is the proper name of a language not a common name. - Suwarn Vajracharya

Support Nepal Bhasa[edit]

Actually Nepal was applied only to the Kathmandu Valley in the ancient time and the inhabitants of the Kathmandu were Nepali and their language was "Nepali Bhasha" but in the 18th century when the king of Gorkha merged the Nepal Kingdom in his Kingdom Gorkha he renamed his Kingdom as Nepal (he owned the name of the Kingdom of Kathmandu Valley) and the Gorkha language (khas kura) called Nepali language and the all people of his Kingdom called Nepali. Now the original inhabitants of Kathmandu Valley were confused that how we keep us isolated than the others so they used word Newar for the original inhabitants of Kathmandu and word "Newari" means "related to Newar", so some people thinks this language is related to Newars, so it should be "Newari language".  Nepab☺y  (talk) 23:04, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

I have requested mediation here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/It%27s_%22Nepal_Bhasa%22 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kinsu08 (talkcontribs) 18:58, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Nepal Language (Nepal Bhasa) is the correct name[edit]

The name of this language is "Nepal Bhasa"(Nepal Language). It has been called Nepal Bhasa from the begining. No matter what linguistic code is given to it, the article should remain as Nepal Language.--Ganesh Paudel (talk) 07:17, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Majority[edit]

I have been hearing that Shrestha(Syasya) played a huge role in literatures and trades during Golden era(i.e. Malla era).I have not got vast idea of it.I have just said what I have been hearing since childhood.Jojolpa (talk) 06:44, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Reverts over dead link[edit]

About these recent reverts [1]: both versions of the text being revert-warred over are ostensibly referenced to the same source, " Malla, KP. "Classical Newari Literature" [2], allegedly last accessed (according to Nepalichoro's edit [3] on 15 May 2015. However, that source link is now dead. Nepalichoro, please report here what exactly you found in that source and why you think your version of the text matches the source better than the previous one. Fut.Perf. 15:24, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

You can find the text using the wayback machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20141018123512/http://www.kpmalla.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Classical-Newari-Literature.pdf Ogress smash! 00:28, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
There is a "live" version here: http://www.avimalla.com/kpmalla/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Classical-Newari-Literature.pdf From what I can tell, the revert war is concerning supposed Spanish and Portuguese influence on the language? If so, this short pdf makes no mention of any European influence on the language. That doesn't mean there wasn't any, just that this document can't be used to support that fact. It does mention 18th-century Capuchin monks but doesn't say which language(s) they brought with them (anyway, this says their influence on language and culture was negligible). If there indeed have been Spanish and Portuguese influences on Newar, another source needs to be provided.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 03:29, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
WilliamThweatt Well the edits weren't about that, no: diff. The issue is that the editor moved and rewrote material that left out important information and also was awkward in comparison to the original. Ogress smash! 05:11, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
I see. In that diff, though, the only information "left out" is the mention of English, Portuguese and Spanish. For the purpose readability and flow, I do prefer the "original". However, the claims of influence from English, Portuguese and Spanish aren't supported by the source given. Also, the sentence "Newar is a member of the Sino-Tibetan language family, but it has been influenced by languages belonging to other families such as Sanskrit, Nepali, Hindi..." should be rewritten anyway. Following the phrase "...belonging to other families such as..." one would expect a list of language families, not individual languages. I know the "such as" is referring all the way back to "languages", but as written, it doesn't feel natural.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 05:40, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
I don't think anyone is opposed to edits, just the rolling revert war. Plus we need more sources. Ogress smash! 06:39, 1 June 2015 (UTC)


William Thweatt Talk, as I have been insisting before, to claim there are Portugese and Spanish influences is misleading and to have been clinging on to this without having any prior source to back your claims doesn't help your credibility at all. Nepalbhasa has some loanwords from English (hence roots from Latin, Greek, French, German) but almost non from Spanish and Portugese. However since the ancient and middle ages, there have been many many words directly borrowed from Old and middle Sanskrit, Prakrit and Maithili and modern languages like Hindi, Nepali, Urdu-Persian - all are Indo-Aryan languages.

And, Ogress smash! I saw the new edits made. I think it should be re-written to include the examples of the Indo-European languages. As you may have read it already in the source I gave you from (A Dictionary of Classical Newari by Kamal P. Malla, Tribhuvan University, Nepal) - "There are also about 3,100 loanwords from Indo-Aryan sources, mainly Sanskrit, Maithili, and Eastern Hindi, and also some from Persian-Urdu." Also stress on the fact that Nepalbhasa's underlying genesis is Sino-Tibetan roots, but thousands of years of influence from India and Indic (Indo-Aryan) languages have resulted in classification "that do not lend easily to a neat classification" (Areal Diffusion and Genetic Inheritance: Problems in Comparative Linguistics By Alexandra Y. Aikhenvald, Robert M. W. Dixon) Also this from (Newari Language and Linguistics: Conspectus, Tej R. Kansakar) "The classification of Tibeto-Burman languages and the placement of Newari among them , has been a matter of some controversy and that "the root and stock of Newari are trans-Himalayan and northern..." So much of the lexicon has been added on by later migrants from India that today, some people see the language as more of an offspring of Middle Prakrit more so than any Tibeto-Burman languages. (https://trekkingnepalhimalaya.wordpress.com/tag/newari-architecture/)

Also it would be wonderful if the fact could be stressed, that Nepalbhasa is a language that is among only 4 among hundreds of Sino-Tibetan languages to have a written literary history, thus making it a crucial language for overall linguistics study. (Newari Language and Linguistics: Conspectus, Tej R. Kansakar)

Check below for reference:

https://books.google.com.np/booksid=sPGe7aBSkpkC&pg=PA303&lpg=PA303&dq=newari+indo+aryan&source=bl&ots=YVfOKHH1f1&sig=ummeTfLCETuWYeFDNH6VBXReVRY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OGtsVYHZAtDiuQTGyoKIDA&ved=0CBsQ6AEwADgU#v=onepage&q=newari%20indo%20aryan&f=false

https://books.google.com.np/booksid=kYJFPZ34ihMC&pg=PA383&lpg=PA383&dq=newari+indo+aryan&source=bl&ots=rWfZ00Ng_1&sig=D7iZCNtUAsQt9MG6bW_qOuF4Ywc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Km1sVZekKY3nuQSNz4HwCw&ved=0CCIQ6AEwATge#v=onepage&q=newari&f=false

https://www.google.com.np/urlsa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEwQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thlib.org%2Fstatic%2Freprints%2Fcontributions%2FCNAS_08_02_01.pdf&ei=ERhtVZOvCo_o8AWFpIDwDQ&usg=AFQjCNG-od7Sex0Xs9I8Gn9iRNuVGS-s8w&sig2=vt7ZqDwjC-OLk6mzwGmIHw&bvm=bv.94911696,d.dGc

https://trekkingnepalhimalaya.wordpress.com/tag/newari-architecture/

Nepalichoro255 (talk) 03:07, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Nepalichoro255, in good faith I'll assume you either misread my comments or have mistaken me for another editor. I haven't once made any claims about Spanish and Portuguese. On the contrary, I pointed out that the only source given for that sentence didn't support that claim. And that was the first time I had even weighed in on this topic, so I couldn't have been "clinging" to anything. As for my "credibility", well it may be wanting for several reasons, but this, I'm certain, isn't one of them.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 08:47, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
I want to start by saying that in regards to the "as I have been insisting before" you wrote above, you have never yet written a single word on the talk page. So thank you for showing up, but you can't start mid-sentence like you were discussing things here. Also, none of those links work for me at all: they all come back as bad urls except Trekking Nepal, which is not a Reliable Source.
As for your suggestions: yeah I don't see any evidence of Spanish/Portuguese.
The idea that somehow Newar isn't ST anymore because of contact with the IA languages is wrong. I think you are misunderstanding the sources because first, that's not how languages work (English is still a Germanic language regardless of the fact that something like 70% of its daily vocabulary is French or Greco-Latin and Japanese remains Japonic despite having a similar percentage of Chinese loanwords), and second, that's not really the history of the language. Also, there are zero reliable sources that are going to claim Newar is derived from a Prakrit. That's just false. Not true. Only the most unsound sources would claim anything of the source. See above: that's not how languages work.
Also, the arrival of hardcore IA influence was the arrival of the Gorkhalis, which was practically yesterday in terms of linguistic depth. Ogress smash! 04:13, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Firstly, by "as I have been insisting before" I meant I had discussed it prior in my talk page. My bad I thought the discussion we had in my talk page was done here. Also, I have no idea why the links won't open. Maybe you can google it yourself as I have laid out the Book's name and its authors.

Secondly, I have never claimed Nepalbhasa/Newar no longer is Sino-Tibetan. I am just saying that it has had various IA influences and to claim it is purely a ST language (as is the case with many other Nepal's ST languages who are indeed much more homogenous) is misleading and will be frankly confusing to general Newars and other Nepali people because a vast majority of the vocabulary and the structure of present Newar language is heavily derived from IA sources. General perception of Newar too among the people is that is rooted in ancient Sanskrit but later mixed with local more indigenous (ST) languages, when the opposite is true. That is why I would say it would be best if something like this is written - "Newar is classified as a ST language where its roots lie, but hundreds of years of co-existence from the migrants from south has led to a significant body of shared vocabulary from IA languages especially Sanskrit, Prakrit, Maithili, Hindi, Nepali." Again, saying Newari is "derived" from Prakrit or Sanskrit would be wrong I agree, but it would also be wrong if a special note isn't mentioned as to how greatly those languages have altered and modified the Newar language in its form.

Thirdly, IA infleunce happened WAY before the arrival of Gorkhalis. That was in the 18th century. The Gopalas who are seen as the first IA speaking migrant settlers came in 3000 years ago. But based on hard evidences, Kathamandu and Newar people had knowledge of Sanskrit and its later form (Prakrit) since the 3rd century CE after the advent of Licchavis where Sanskrit was the official language. With the [[Malla (Nepal)|Mallas] came in greater force of influence of Maithil language in the courts, since the Mallas themselves came from Mithila region and spoke Maithili. Malla rulers themselves spoke Maithil and made it their official and literary language. So whatever "hardcore" influence must have happened, happened during this 12th-18th century period. And yes, the advent of Gorkhalis is only yesterday in linguistic history terms, but the IA influences were very much active much before that. With the Gorkhalis came Khaskura (present Nepali) as well as influences of Magaric(ST) and English. Nepalichoro255 (talk) 08:08, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 28 December 2015[edit]

Nothing new to see here. Fut.Perf. 08:28, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Nepal Bhasa languageNepal Bhasa language – Nepal Bhasa is the official term given by the government of Nepal. Also, the original name is "Nepal Bhasa." The term "Newar" or any other terms other than "Nepal Bhasa" are blatantly misleading, non-veracious, unscientific and derogatory. Kinsu08 (talk) 12:11, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Please read the outcome of the previous move requests, especially what it says about the basis in Wikipedia policy that such proposals need to have. Since I'm not seeing anything in your proposal at the moment that addresses these policy considerations, I will close this proposal soon. There is no point in trying to revise the result of the previous move debates unless you have some new and policy-conformant arguments to put on the table. Fut.Perf. 14:40, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Rather than just talking about Wikipedia's guidelines and all, please stick on to the facts or at least do some research before vandalizing a certain ethnic group's identity that has been existing for thousands of years. I propose this change because it is true. Kindly tell me what proof do you want before preposterously vandalizing this content. Kinsu08 (talk) 15:11, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Although "Nepal Bhasa" is the official name, the surveys discussed above show that it is not the most common name used in reliable English-language sources, which is the key factor for Wikipedia. Kanguole 19:15, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Your contention has lost its ground here. You can't drop the original name of something that belongs to an ethnic group just because of some unaware wiki users unrelated to this field here couldn't find the "common name used in reliable English-language sources". (talk) 20:01, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

I think you may be the one who is coming into this argument "unaware" (and I mean that in a factual sense, not an uncivil sense). Newar is a Sino-Tibetan language. "Nepal" (Sanskrit form) and "Newar" (Prakrit form) are both different forms of the same word, an Indo-Aryan word, so neither are likely to be the "original name". Further, per the references at Newar language#Name, the first known occurrence of either term in reference to the language was in 1380 AD -- a far cry from an "identity...existing for thousands of years" as you said above. So, as a friendly suggestion, in order to enhance your experience here at Wikipedia and minimize your frustration, I suggest you follow your own advice above and "do some research" (of scholarly literature, not nationalist propaganda). Also, familiarizing yourself with Wikipedia policy would be to your advantage as well. As Fut.Perf. points out above, unless you have new policy-based arguments supported by new evidence (i.e. quotes from reliable sources, not just your opinion), the results of the previous Move Requests aren't likely to change.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 07:11, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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