Talk:New Caledonia

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older entries[edit]

good, but just add our native name for New Caledonia

You can edit the page yourself! David.Monniaux 23:41, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Ecology[edit]

Should this actually read, "..and makes a funny cooing sound."? (see bolded text below)

"The Cagou, which cannot fly, has a large crest and a funny cooing, and is a national symbol. The niaouli, whose sap smells like camphor, is used to treat head colds."

--Randolph 16:29, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC) I think it should!!

help[edit]

hi im monique im in australia vic i found this site verry intresting and helped me out a lot wit my french work so thak youto all those people who helped

Independant flag[edit]

Please, do not add the independant flag as it is not an official flag, see here if you can speak french : http://www.axl.cefan.ulaval.ca/pacifique/ncal-voeu-drapeau2010.htm. Adding the indepedant flag will only confuse people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.147.79.224 (talk) 08:48, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

The Congress of New Caledonia officially voted that both flags should be flown side by side. Contrary to what you claim, the motion does not refer to the FLNKS flag as a civil flag. In fact, this flag is flown by government institutions ("raise the indigenous Kanak flag and the French Tricolour above the high commission in the capital Noumea"), so by definition it is not a civil flag. Please read civil flag if you don't understand what this means.
WP:reliable sources describe this as New Caledonia's second official flag ("New Caledonian Congress overwhelmingly voted to adopt the emblem of the indigenous movement, which features red, blue and green stripes with a yellow sun and black totem, as the nation's second official flag"). Congress adopted a motion saying that both flags should be used. The flag is widely used [1] to represent New Caledonia. Why should wikipedia not follow Congress' wishes? Why should wikipedia ignore reliable sources? TDL (talk) 16:10, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
The Congress did not vote anything, it is just a "wish" and has no political value. Your article from The Daily Telegraph didn't understand this, but that normal because a lot of people don't understand the statut of the Kanaky flag either.
I think that we should follow the french article, as it's more "neutral". The Kanaky flag is not an official flag (please see here for an explanation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Flag_of_New_Caledonia#Why_the_situation_with_the_double_flag_in_complicated), and don't have the same "weight" as the French Tricolore, which is for the moment the only national flag of New Caledonia. Maybe the flag was raised in front of many building but actually only by those who wanted, there is no obligation to do so. So putting the two flags together in the article can mislead readers because they can think that we have two officiel national flag, which again is not true.
The french article decide to put only the french flag in the info box, as it's the only national one, but because it is still used, they decided to put it in the french page of "Flag of New Caledonia". I think this is the better compromise that we can came up to. We cannot says that is has the same weight as the Tricolore, but it definitely exist What do you think ? 175.158.144.93 (talk) 00:08, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
If Congress didn't vote on the vœu, then how did they approve it? What sources support your assertion that the Telegraph is wrong and they did not vote for it?
That you believe this vœu had "no political value" is purely your subjective interpretation. Any sources to support this?
You have still not provided any sources to support your theory that the French tricolour is the "national flag of New Caledonia", as you suggest it is above. What legislation made the French tricolour the national flag of New Caledonia? Are there any sources which supports this? Yes the French tricolour is flown in New Caledonia, but how is this any different than the union jack in Scotland? We don't depict the star spangled banner at the top of Texas, so why should New Caledonia be special? If the tricolour has no status as the national flag of New Caledonia, then to be consistent with your logic it should not be depicted at New Caledonia either. Depicting no flag would be a much more neutral solution than only depicting one non-national flag. Personally I think showing both flags is the best compromise. But depicting the French tricolour alone would mislead readers into think that it is the national flag of New Caledonia, which there is no evidence that it is. Reputable sources such as FIFA use the FLNKS flag: [2].
You seem to be here to try to WP:Right great wrongs ("a lot of people don't understand the statut of the Kanaky flag"). Our job is to follow what sources say, not what we think they should say. TDL (talk) 01:51, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
If we see at the same website, FIFA, we can see that New Caledonia can also have the Tricolore flag. (http://www.fifa.com/world-match-centre/nationalleagues/nationalleague=new-caledonia-super-ligue-2000000173/index.html), it is the same case for a lot of website, this is why I don't think that we can rely on international website.
The vow I cited came from the "Journal Officiel", which IS the law. It's far more reliable than The Daily Telegraph. Let be clear, I NEVER invented this word, you can check on juridoc (official source) that this is the statut of the only text that mention the kanaky flag, unless you can find me another text, more recent, that mention the kanaky flag.
I didn't tried to interpret was is a "vow", I just cited what the french wikipedia said and what was confirmed by a lawyer. I will provide a more reliable source when the library open tomorrow. The Congress may have voted this text, but this is a vow, and a vow don't have a lot of weight. (I will provide source for this as soon as possible, I can't find the definition of a vow from a reliable source on the Internet). I believe, and again I will provide source as soon as possible, that The Daily Telegraph did not understand what was a vow.
New Caledonia has a strange statut BUT it's still part of France, so the French flag is indeed official, this is not to be debated, even if we plan to have another flag in the future.
I don't know. 203.147.79.227 (talk) 05:22, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I certainly agree that usage is split. But that's why we should show both flags. We shouldn't selectively pick one side, that's not WP:NPOV.
And again, I don't dispute that the flag of France is official in New Caledonia, but that isn't the issue. The question is, is it officially the flag of New Caledonia? The flag of Australia is certainly official in New South Wales, but it isn't the flag of New South Wales. Only the latter is depicted in the infobox of New South Wales. Likewise, the flag of France is also official in Nouméa, but it is not the flag of Nouméa, nor is it depicted in the infobox of Nouméa.
I'm not disputing what the vœu says, I'm disputing your interpretation of it. My understanding (which could well be wrong) is that the motion was a vœu simply because Congress does not have the jurisdiction to take this decision themselves. They had to request France (who the "wish" is directed at) do it for them. That is the sole purpose of a vœu: to request France act on their behalf in areas for which Congress does not have jurisdiction. See Organic Law No 99-209 of 19 March 1999 - Article 133. Yes, theoretically France could have ignored their "wish", but they did not. Regardless, the choice of legislative method does not make it not-official. At most it makes it differently-official. TDL (talk) 02:13, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
Actually, France did ignore the wish from the Congres, there is no other text mentioning the "Kanaky Flag" other than this one. The situation with the flag is really complicated here, for exemple you can't find any flag, both France or Kanaky, on updated governmental website, but you can find both at the University of New Caledonia. You can find both on some town hall, sometime just the french one, and even sometime just the Kanaky in the Isles.
Can you cite your sources when you say "the choice of legislative method does not make it not-official. At most it makes it differently-official." ? Also the idea of the Kanany flag it not to represent New Caledonia, it is the flag of the native people who lived here before the European arrived. The flag of New South Wales doesn't represent half of the state, it is the flag of the whole state. If we had a "real" flag for New Caledonia, even if people would not like it for whatsoever reason, it would stil be the flag of New Caledonia. But the situation of different, the only "official" flag adopted by New Caledonia is the French one, the Kanaky was never adopted, just "wished".
Again I would think that the "best" compromise for me would be to only put the french one in this page, because it's, at this time, the only flag that can officially be used to represent New Caledonia, but because the Kanaky flag exist and was cited in the vow, I think we should but both flag on the page "Flags of New Caledonia". For the moment I will not change the page, leave it as it is, so we can discuss about it. 203.147.79.223 (talk) 05:00, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
source 2 - Moxy (talk) 15:09, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
But the French didn't ignore the vœu. Congress requested that the FLNKS flag fly alongside the French tricolour, and the French obliged by raising it at the High Commission.[3] The vœu was an official decision, adopted by officials sitting in the official governing body of New Caledonia. How could it possibly be more official? Can you cite any sources which say that the vœu is "unofficial" as you argue?
The vœu makes it clear that the FLNKS flag "can officially be used to represent New Caledonia" and in fact such usage is desired by Congress. I understand that the FLNKS flag is not the equivalent to the flag of New South Wales, and was not arguing that point. What I am pointing out is that neither is the French tricolour. One represents the indigenous population, one represents the French republic. Neither is an official the flag of NC, but both are used to represent NC in different contexts. You seem to be arguing that usage is complicated so therefore we should ignore usage and present it in an oversimplified manner. I disagree: we should follow usage and sources. If usage is mixed, we should depict both flags. If reputable sources, such as The World Factbook, say thing such as "New Caledonia has two official flags; alongside the flag of France, the Kanak (indigenous Melanesian) flag has equal status;", we should show both. TDL (talk) 16:35, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Ok so what do the sources say?....Ibp Usa; USA International Business Publications (2012). Island States: Small Island States Hadbook. Int'l Business Publications. p. 122. ISBN 978-0-7397-4487-1.  -- Moxy (talk) 15:05, 3 February 2015 (UTC)