Talk:Nicolás Maduro

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Maduro's claims that Capriles will be killed by CIA[edit]

This article is part of a new talking point by Maduro, claiming that Capriles will be killed by CIA [1], yet Capriles said openly that if he something happens to him, that is it Maduro's doing. [2]

This is especially foreboding and strange because Capriles is the favorite from international bodies (non communists ones) so why on earth would Maduro find anything about Capriles' death, unless it was merely unfounded and used as a veiled threat.

Maduro on 3/16 actually shut down an airport that Capriles was using that morning. [3] — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 17 March 2013

National Electoral Council[edit]

In the intro it says "electoral authority". The official name of such government body in Venezuela is the National Electoral Council. I suggest the usage of the official name.

Should we be categorizing him as a Jew?[edit]

The only source that he's of Jewish ancestry comes from an interview he gave... and it looks like he only said this to deflect criticism of antisemitism. This man's mouth is not a reliable source considering the things that have come out of it.HerbertMacuse (talk) 01:03, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

@HerbertMacuse: This is a good point and should be looked at.--ZiaLater (talk) 01:10, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Oil prices[edit]

You removed an edit I did yesterday. Can you explain why? The current phrase is misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Este0077 (talkcontribs) 16:53, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

@Este0077: Not really. Chávez relied heavily on oil revenue, limited access to the USD which is necessary for imports and placed price controls on the economy which only increased inflation. Maduro has done more of the same.--ZiaLater (talk) 17:13, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
@ZiaLater: This is a oversimplified version, also partially inspired by opposition narrative (factors that influence inflation in Venezuela are way more complex and have a strong political origin). The oil price crisis has influenced the presidency of Nicolas Maduro since its beginning. The article fails to mention this, being one of the most important factors in Venezuelan economic export revenue crisis. Wikipedia should offer independent and complete information. Este0077 (talk) 19:34, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
@Este0077: All of the sourced info is from independent sources. It's not an opposition narrative, it is what the sources say. Yes, the oil prices have affected the crisis, but it is only one of the many nails in the coffin...--ZiaLater (talk) 03:04, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
@ZiaLater: We perfectly know that there is a lot of controversial material in those "independent sources". The article presents a shallow caricature of the Venezuelan situation, inspired by US mainstream media (that present only the opposition narrative, ignoring many facts), while there are many serious independent resources that are not used. The economic and political situation is way more complex than a crisis simply related to bad government policies. The oil exports drop by more than 50% and they represent about 90-95% of all Venezuelan exports, which represent about 20% of the GDP. That alone shows that a fall of at least 10% of GDP (which is a catastrophic figure) is only due to oil prices. Any objective observer knows that Chavez failed in diversifying the economy, but many other macro-economic parameters were positive during his tenure (mostly due to high oil prices and strong public investment that led to a very high demand, compared to past Venezuelan history). Price controls is not a reason of the crisis. While it can be debatable it helps or not to solve the crisis, it is not the reason (and the inflation is another long and complex chapter, also related to political and financial crime, like currency extraction), and you can find this in many serious, unbiased sources. I am sorry to insist that the removal of the oil price crisis from the page is a clear evidence of poor knowledge of Venezuela's economy or a biased approach. I could think there is a will of using Wikipedia as a propaganda tool and not as a tool to understand the complexity of history and reality. Este0077 (talk) 01:12, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Important note: The discussion before this point has been held at User talk:Cambalachero. I have moved it here, where it belongs. Cambalachero (talk) 15:07, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Of course that the economy of Venezuela is influenced by external issues, which may harm it, and are beyond Venezuelan control. That is true for all countries, regardless of economic system (there are very few complete autarkies nowadays, if they exist at all). A drop in the export prices is indeed a bad thing for a country that exports a single thing, but that alone is not enough to cause a 3 digits inflation rating. Just check here, the common inflation rates in the world. The drop in oil prices is a worldwide thing, but Venezuela is completely alone in that 741%. The second highest is just 79%, and most countries hardly ever have it above 10%. Cambalachero (talk) 15:23, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Exact, and the article tries to guess instead of offering objective information to understand the complexity of the problem. It trivially relates inflation to government policies, showing a huge contradiction (based on US and media insistent claims, certainly not the best independent or scientific source on the subject): the "same" kind of policies were theoretically applied for more than 15 years, but high inflation started only in 2014, when oil income was cut by at least 50%. South American countries have huge inflation problems during economic crisis, due to the weakness of their currencies, low productivity and their dependence on USD. All of them have this problem and many of them have chronic inflation. The economic situation of Venezuela is far more complex than what is said in this article, that focus on national government issues but ignores Venezuela's geopolitical context: many elements here are completely ignored (financial crimes like currency extraction, Obama's executive orders and sanctions, distribution boycott of selected products, and more: this is rarely mentioned in US media). But I repeat: not mentioning AT LEAST the oil price crisis and its important consequences in an article about Nicolas Maduro and Venezuela means hiding reality. Este0077 (talk) 14:53, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

However, none of those other South American countries have inflation rates anywhere near Venezuela. A 40% inflation rate in Argentina is high, in itself and in comparison with most other countries in the world, but it's paradise in comparison with Venezuela. And even that 40% began to decrease once the populist Cristina Kirchner ended her term and the new president Mauricio Macri gradually changed the economic policies. So no, this is a problem of Venezuela, and Venezuela alone. As for the sanctions ordered by Obama, those were only against the leaders of the dictatorship, specifically meant not to make the humanitarian crisis even worse. Removing visas from a handful of people and confiscating their private properties have zero impact in the national economy of Venezuela. Cambalachero (talk) 15:21, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Enforcing Anglocentric cultural effeminacy on article as political bias[edit]

Currently, in the article, we have a political propaganda hit piece section under the title of supposed "homophobic" statements from Maduro. These statements from Maduro are, in the context of the Hispanic world, completely normal and not particularly controversial at all, as Machismo is part of their culture. A non-effeminised male in Latin America, calling somebody they wish to disrespect a "maricón" is completely run of the mill. This section doesn't take any of this into account at all. I get it, the section is meant to make Maduro look like a bad guy by appealing to liberal Anglocentric views of sexuality (where homosexuality is lionised) and the general Anglo-American cultural dislike of confident, masculine men, coupled with a side of Cold War-esque "evil commie dictator" fear-mongering thrown into the mix, but obviously this isn't inline with our WP:NPOV policies and so we need to review this content ASAP. Claíomh Solais (talk) 21:18, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

There's a lot of lazy personal opinion and prejudice in this argument above (as always). If you are proposing an amendment then ensure there is proper referencing and sourcing. It is your view that it is completely normal for presidents of South American states to make statements such as "they grab their visa and where the mess has to shove, insert the visa in the ass" or to refer to individuals as "big faggots" and opponents as "little princesses". If this is the case then provide a source to support your claim. Likewise that such interventions are not "controversial" - presumably by showing that they gave received NO COVERAGE in any South American press or media (which might be hard for you to do as one of the sources is El Universal). I also find it patronising - bordering on racist - to suggest all Venezuelan's swagger about in a culture of "machismo". You sound like someone writing a travelogue in the 1950s describing a colourful view of "the natives". But again find a source to back up your argument and we can think about how to include it. I'm also not terribly impressed by your ill-informed description of this as a "liberal Anglocentric views of sexuality" - half of the continent of South America recognises same-sex marriage (decided locally and not imposed from the outside where it is supposedly "lionised". LOL). I also increasingly despair of this pathetic pushing of personal hang-ups - homosexual men can be just as confident and masculine as heterosexual men. In any case you've not demonstrated any reason to suggest NPOV is being violated and as such I see no need to review the content. Thanks. Contaldo80 (talk) 10:14, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
This article from a pious and emotive Anglo-American named Tim Padgett in TIME magazine discusses how in Latin American politics, across the political spectrum, this kind of discourse is mainstream in both socialist and conservative spheres. Presidents Rafael Correa in Ecuador, Evo Morales in Bolivia, Horacio Cartes in Paraguay have all made similar public statements to Maduro in a political context. True, there is an ongoing attempt a Yankification, particularly through the Achilles heels of Uruguay and Argentina (the most Anglo-Americanised states in Latin America), but this kind of language used by Maduro is neither uncommon, or particularly controversial to the public there. Claíomh Solais (talk) 13:25, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
However, you've shared a good article - lots of stuff in here to emphasise Maduro's homophobia and gay-bashing. Previously we've only hinted at this but now that we have a reliable source we can properly reinforce this in the article text. Well done! Contaldo80 (talk) 14:16, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

User:Claíomh Solais Add the Machismo context to the article then. Michael O'hara (talk) 14:21, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Not on the basis of that article though as it says nothing about machismo. Will need another source. Contaldo80 (talk) 16:30, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Struck edit by sock of Apollo the Logician. Doug Weller talk 16:02, 16 December 2017 (UTC)