Talk:Nintendo DS and 3DS storage devices

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  (Redirected from Talk:Nintendo DS storage devices)
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject Video games (Rated Start-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Video games, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of video games on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Discussions[edit]

Could someone please help to find links to either articles or homepages of these products? thanks

(And note that Stores and Your website with affiliate links in NOT an "Official websites")

.. these are NOT official websites so should not appear in the list! —Preceding unsigned comment added by GBADSi (talkcontribs) 09:31, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

I've added an unofficial websites list as I can't find official websites for some of the products. I also found an interesting article about the future of these types of flash cards. (BillyR4 (talk) 10:39, 20 October 2010 (UTC))


Is this article actually at all notable in any way? Why does Wikipedia need a list of DS storage devices with links to copyright infringing sites? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.100.57 (talkcontribs)

Which site infringes U.S. copyright, and what is your evidence that this site infringes U.S. copyright? There's a difference between Pocket Heaven or GBATemp, which documents that piracy happens, and a ROM site, which actually contains the infringing goods. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 12:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
GBAtemp.net does not contain any illegal material whatsoever. Memebers talking about and giving links to warez are severely punished and under most cases banned immediately.

Romachine Kernel and R4i SDHC R4i SDHC should be considered geuine, and you can find a long fake r4s list on http://romachine.webs.com/faker4s.htm and why dosent make a Wood R4 article and Romachine Article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Byt4112000 (talkcontribs) 17:51, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

This once again seems to happen, links to external shops should be avoided according to WP:ELNO 5. —XSlicer (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:56, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

supercard DS one[edit]

the section for this device is extremely biased against it. Mr toasty 01:21, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Then go ahead and delete everything negative about it that doesn't have a citation. Also, go ahead and find citations for all negative comments made about it arch-rival R4. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 12:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree with this. The only game that appears to be problematic with slower SD cards is Castlevania: PoR. While I would agree it is somewhat dependant on MicroSD speed, this section reads like its written by a competitor and has no citation. --RabidJackal (talk) 19:03, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

m3 DS Simply[edit]

That part of the of the page bugs me, it makes it see as if the M3DSS is a cheap rip off of the R4, from what I understand the m3 team and the r4 team worked together on it. "It is almost exactly the same as the R4DS, and can even use modified versions of R4DS firmware." It's not as if the R4 couldn't use the m3 firmware, (though I don't see a reason why you'd want to do that). Until someone thinks of a better solution than bashing the M3DSS I'm going to edit the two sections and merge them, seeing how they are essentially the same product. 71.30.188.72 21:46, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

M3 Real[edit]

Anything new with this product that should be included?Hnc (talk) 20:56, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

It supports GBA backups and homebrew software if you buy it with a GBA-Pak (there are 3 variants in shops, the variant with GBA module is called M3 real perfect, which also includes a rumble pak and RAM-extension[such as for NDS browser])--62.158.72.100 (talk) 23:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Official Nintendo Cards??[edit]

Where is there _no_ mention of official Nintendo cards?? I am now an official DS developer and the 512 card I have is labeled Nintendo M18-X1. (I am unable to read the back Chinese text.) Michael.Pohoreski (talk) 06:48, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

If you actually are an in-house dev, then would your work really even be considered 'home-brew' anymore? Besides, I highly doubt those devices are open to the public, whereas everything listed here is available to anyone who is able to order them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.89.184.206 (talk) 23:04, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

This article is not specificaly about "homebrew". However, I wonder if we can get enough information on the official stuff. They tend to be closed-lipped about it. APL (talk) 00:15, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Just to add I came here looking for info on this. I saw an official one today at a Ninentdo Black and White preview event. If I'd realised there was so little info, I'd have taken a picture. It was quite a bit bigger than the unofficial commercial ones and jutted out the top of the DS quite a way. It also seemed to be screwed in pretty tightly, unsurprisingly! Object In Space (talk) 22:52, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Poor grammar.[edit]

I am notice lot of use of problem with Engrish.

↑ Ok, that was just a sarcastic jab at it. Even so, I'm not sure where to start in correcting it. I could fix the misspellings, but then again what was the intent of some of the wordings? I'm not sure how to proceed without angering people. And is it worth it considering that the notability of the list is in question? Maybe replace it with just a description of the flash card/console modding/homebrew scene instead of a checklist type listing? --FazzMunkle (talk) 19:27, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Regarding R4DS firmware[edit]

The R4DS team has said that they have firmware version 1.19 in the works, but they have since canceled development of it. There are no official firmware versions after 1.18.

I removed a section that had a link to a file anonymously stored on MegaUpload that contained an alternative firmware. After examining the file, I can confirm that it was actually YSMenu, which is a firmware that is developed by Yasu. The author does not allow pre-packaging of his software to be hosted by third parties. I linked to an R4DS Forum thread that contains all of the information on YSmenu (particularly because Yasu's official site for YSmenu is in Japanese). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.165.247.146 (talk) 04:01, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

fire card[edit]

why is there no section on the nintendo ds fire card. It does store games without a micro sd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Treeloop (talkcontribs) 02:04, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Merger_proposal[edit]

This article is nothing but really a list of non-notable written with no sources and as so fails NPOV cards with a few select being notable (I.E. M3 and R4) but none of them are deserving of their own article. I propose that any notable cards that have plenty of 3rd party sources that ARE NOT from forums, homebrew communities or from their respective websites or the sites that sell them on this page be merged into it's parent article Nintendo DS homebrew and the ones that are not notable be removed and forgotten until notable and that when merger is complete this page be redirected to Nintendo DS homebrew. Feel free to change or amend.Rgoodermote  21:51, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

  • Oppose more and more cartridges are becoming quite notable given the death of the R4 team, the article does cite some sources too. flash carts are used for more than homebrew, and this list was only split a little while ago from the list of DS accessories, so this would be a very bad idea. --UltraMagnus (talk) 11:20, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose As was said, many cartridges are becoming very notable. 65.78.148.145 (talk) 21:50, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose NDS homebrew is becoming far more noteable, and has even been cutting into the sales of third party programs/etc. This page seems to be developing further and if it isn't already worthy of it's status as a page, it soon will be. — Alter 20:55, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
  • Support While NDS homebrew may be becoming more notable few if any of the cards are at all notable. The idea that homebrew is cutting into sales of third party programs seems rather ridiculous given that almost all homebrew is free. DaveJMurphy (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 10:56, 6 December 2009 (UTC).
    I was thinking of things such as the Internet browsers,seeing s there are many homebrew browsers. — Alter 00:21, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose NDS homebrew is not 'storage device' or a part of it. The only link between NDS homebrew and storage is that the 'storage devices' can be used to load NDS homebrew onto a cartridge. They are separate subject matters with a relationship. NDS homebrew existed long before storage devices became available. 90.194.154.120 (talk) 08:46, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

R4 SDHC[edit]

According to r4i.co.uk they only sell Genuine R4 cards including the R4 SDHC(for DS/Lite) and R4i SDHC(for DSi), so are these actually official, or cheap clones like wikipedia currently suggests. Lmcgregoruk (talk) 15:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

In reply to above: From someone who owns several cards and is familiar with most of them, R4i.co.uk sell genuine R4i cards (the red box), but do NOT sell original R4 SDHC's. What they sell is the old "R4v3" card or otherwise known as the R4 SDHC Upgrade (which is different to the R4 SDHC). The R4 SDHC Upgrade/R4v3 was released AFTER the original R4 SDHC. So while they sell original R4i cards, they don't sell original R4 SDHC cards. For those, I think NDS-Gear.co.uk, all4consoles.co.uk stock them. NDS-Gear stock the same R4i cards as r4i.co.uk. Renegrenade —Preceding undated comment added 08:29, 8 February 2010 (UTC).

There's no such thing as an original R4 SDHC card, the original R4 card was never updated and all R4 designated devices which support SDHC and/or DSi are clones, often of completely different hardware. DaveJMurphy (talk) 02:17, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Nintendo DSi / DSi XL Storage Devices page[edit]

A separate Nintendo DSi / DSi XL Storage Devices page was created, for which a merge was proposed. The discussion has been inactive for about a month, and I have proceeded to redirect it here. Dancter (talk) 22:38, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Legality[edit]

Why is there no section regarding the legality of these devices? They are reasonably difficult to find and obtain, which shows that their legality is at the very least undecided.

Perhaps it's because there's not actually anything illegal about them?
In my opinion (AIANAL) any illegality associated with NDS storage devices would arise from the actions of the owner, not from mere possession of the storage device.
Case in point. I have a stack of blank DVDs, and my PC has a DVD burner and supporting software. Are these items illegal? Simple answer. No.
Is it illegal for me to burn copies of DVDs which I personally own? Again, no. In the U.S., the Fair Use Doctrine allows you to make copies of media you own for your own personal use.
Is it illegal for me to borrow DVDs from Netflix, Redbox, Blockbuster, etc., and copy them? Yes, that would be illegal. You do not own those DVDs, and the copying of media under the Fair Use Doctrine does not extend to items you do not, personally, own.
Is it legal for me to own an NDS storage device and a compatible Micro SD card? Yes. Just as it's not illegal to own blank DVDs and a DVD burner, it is not illegal to own an NDS storage device and compatible Micro SD card.
Is it legal for me to download Nintendo DS ROMs for use on my NDS storage device? It depends. Are you downloading DS Roms for which you do not own copies of the actual games? If yes, then that would be illegal, but note that it's your actions which are illegal; it has nothing to do with the product itself.
If you own actual copies of the games you're downloading, and you simply want to have copies of all of your legally purchased & owned DS games conveniently stored on one cartridge, then there is nothing illegal with owning and using a Nintendo DS storage device, again as per the Fair Use Doctrine.
So if they're not illegal why is it so hard to buy/obtain NDS storage devices? Simple. It's not. I know you can't just walk into Bestbuy or Target or Walmart and find them, you have to buy them online, but it's not "reasonably difficult" to purchase them. No more so than buying from Amazon or eBay.
So if they're not illegal, why can't you buy them in stores? It has nothing to do with perceived illegality and everything to do with demand. There is a limited demand for these units and the market can only support a small number of manufacturers. In western nations it would be rare to find companies prepared to enter or support this market due to its high volatility and limited customer base, thus most manufacturers will be found in eastern nations where the population is much larger, and where demand for these types of product is much higher. Kwazimoto69 (talk) 18:49, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
That is not obvious. These are devices that intentionally defeat a copy-protection scheme. (Nintendo's copy protect stuff has to be bypassed to get ANY code to run on a DS.) In many jurisdictions (Including USA) bypassing a copy-protect can be illegal even if it's not done with any intent to violate copyright law. APL (talk) 00:21, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Just because these devices defeat a copy-protection scheme does not make them illegal.
Bypassing copy-protection with the intent to profit or cause harm? Yes, illegal. However...
as per United States Code, Title 17-Copyrights, Chapter 1, Subject Matter and Scope of Copyright, §117 Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer Programs, "...it is not an infringement [of Copyright Law] for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program, provided..." that you do not do so for commercial gain, and that you destroy/delete subsequent copies when you cease to be a rightful owner of the original copy of said program.
There is no mention of copy-protection anywhere at all in Title 17, and certainly not where one would consider it most relevant, i.e., §117 Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer Programs, thus copy-protection is irrelevant. In other words, it is not necessarily illegal within the United States to own and use Flash Card storage devices to make copies of computer programs, i.e., video games, for which you are the rightful owner IF the copies are for your own private use.
I'm substantiating my point of view with the pertinent legal code. What is the basis for your argument that defeating or bypassing copy-protection within the United States in order to make a personal copy of software for which you are the rightful owner is illegal? Kwazimoto69 (talk) 19:57, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, even a very quick lay-person's skim of the documents you mention turn up

§ 1201. Circumvention of copyright protection systems2

[...]
(1) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that —
(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof;
[...]

It goes on like that for a while. Flashcarts are pretty clearly covered. (Remember that the "Work" being protected is not just the games, but also the firmware on the device which you're only "authorized" to use with official Nintendo products.) APL (talk) 18:04, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
That's an excellent find and it gave me some pause, so I did some more digging and discovered that the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit recently ruled that:
"...breaking through a digital security system to access software doesn't trigger the "anti-circumvention" provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Any other interpretation of the DMCA...would permit infringement liability for tapping into a work simply to "view it or to use it within the purview of 'fair use' permitted under the Copyright Act." Court: breaking DRM for a "fair use" is legal ARS Technica, July 2010
Once again it appears to comes back to what is acceptable under the Fair Use Doctrine.
Yes, I'll grant you that the production & trafficking of Flashcarts does appear to be verboten under § 1201, but that possession and personal use of such devices may still be permitted under Fair Use. I say 'may' because the Courts have a tendency to make rulings on these issues on a case-by-case basis only. In light of that, and given that no such ruling has yet been made against R4s and Flashcarts, and given the Presumption of Innocence which usually prevails within the United States, I would argue that until such time as a legal ruling is made against R4s & Flashcarts specifically, that possession and use of R4s and Flashcarts for personal use, and only in relation to software which you legally own, is questionable but acceptable as per the Fair Use Doctrine.
I must say that it has been enjoyable debating this issue with you. Thank you for sticking to the facts and for keeping things on a civil level, even though our opinions appear to differ on this matter. And yes, I acknowledge that my point of view on this topic is simply that, my opinion. I am, after all, only an Armchair Lawyer. Kwazimoto69 (talk) 16:16, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

A recent reversion of of an edit as "advert"[edit]

I disagree that the edit undone with this edit was advertisement. It didn't mention a website address, or phone number. Does anyone else have thoughts on this?--Rockfang (talk) 07:15, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Actually, that was poorly labelled for the revert reason on my part. The bigger issue was that this was more of a crystal ball issue, describing an unreleased product which is still in development, where even the website is currently not available. Future products should have reliable sources supporting statements about them, as there are extra challenges to verify details on such future items. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 07:23, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
That makes sense. I wasn't disputing the revert itself, I was just a tad confused by the edit summary. Thank you for posting here.--Rockfang (talk) 07:27, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
To help eliminate the confusion, I reverted my own revert ... then restored the revert using the more accurate reason I mentioned above. Sorry about the confusion. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 07:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Format Proposal[edit]

I think the format for Wikipedia should be more like... Have Nintendo DS Storage Devices be about the purpose and legality of the devices. I think each of the products should be listed on there own page if they can sustain their own page. Each page they have should have a synopsis of the legal ramifactions of owning one of those devices. The summaries of there uses can stay until proof that they are encouraging law-breaking behavior appears. A discussion on this subject is welcome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BRiMaTiOn (talkcontribs) 12:13, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Forums and Wikis[edit]

Forums and Wikis are inherently unreliable, they should not be used as sources. IRWolfie- (talk) 21:34, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Removed "advert" tag[edit]

I removed the "advert" tag dated April 2012, as I believe the article is an objective description of a notable product range. It mentions their limitations as well as their abilities. Any lingering POV can be addressed by copy editing, for which it's already tagged. --Stfg (talk) 13:23, 20 October 2012 (UTC)