Talk:Sherlock Holmes pastiches
|WikiProject Media franchises / Sherlock Holmes||(Rated Start-class)|
- 1 Miscellaneous top-posted comments
- 2 Overlap with Pop culture references to Sherlock Holmes
- 3 Deletions in main article
- 4 Reorganisation
- 5 Harrypotterism
- 6 Non-canonical stories
- 7 Radio?
- 8 Advertising
- 9 No TV section?
- 10 José Luis Garci's Holmes & Watson. Madrid Days (2012)
- 11 In the interests of clarity
Miscellaneous top-posted comments
If memory serves correctly, there had been a Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective board game during the 80, too. Shouldn't it be added to the list ? Ialdaboth 20:18, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
I'd also add the SF stories of the great Martian detective, clearly based on Holmes. (I just wish I could credit the writer, or recall the character's name...) Trekphiler 18:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Overlap with Pop culture references to Sherlock Holmes
There's a lot of overlap between this article and Pop culture references to Sherlock Holmes; for instance, Monk and House (TV series) are discussed both places. Is it possible to clarify the difference between the two, so that people won't be misled into recreating information that's already in a different article? —Celithemis 06:15, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
- ...Also, what should this article be called? The current title is both ungrammatical and rather vague. —Celithemis 06:22, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Deletions in main article
There was a lot of material in the section on non-canonical works in the main Sherlock Holmes article which recently got deleted and which may not exist elsewhere. I've integrated some material pertaining to films into the film section here, but there remain several paragraphs lost from the main article which need categorising and checking for duplication, I'm quoting these below, perhaps someone can do something with them.Samatarou 22:13, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
It is also common for writers to pit Holmes against other well-known fictional characters originating from or set in the same era as Conan Doyle's stories — particularly those who now exist in the public domain, and so can be used freely without payment of royalties to the creator. In these crossovers, Holmes has frequently interacted with Dr. Fu Manchu (in Cay Van Ash's Ten Years Beyond Baker Street), Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (in Loren D. Estleman's Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Holmes) and Dracula (In Loren Estleman's Sherlock Holmes vs. Dracula or Stephen Seitz's "Sherlock Holmes and the Plague of Dracula"). He has also appeared as a significant (although often unseen) background presence in Alan Moore and Kevin O'Neill's comic book series The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, and also Planetary by Warren Ellis and John Cassaday.
Other writers have Holmes meeting real people and participating in real events. In Nicholas Meyer's works, Holmes meets Sigmund Freud, Oscar Wilde, Gilbert and Sullivan, and Bram Stoker, among other Victorian celebrities. In Sherlock Holmes and the Red Demon, Minnesota journalist Larry Millett involves Holmes and Watson in the Great Hinckley Fire; their employer is railroad magnate James J. Hill, and they also meet Boston Corbett, the man who shot John Wilkes Booth. And on at least six occasions (Edward B. Hanna's novel The Whitechapel Horrors, Michael Didbin's novel The Last Sherlock Holmes Story. In Philip J. Carraher's novel The Adventure of the New York Ripper (with Holmes using the alias Simon Hawkes), Barry Day's novel Sherlock Holmes and the Apocalypse Murders, and the movies A Study in Terror and Murder by Decree) Holmes gets involved in the Jack the Ripper case. In Caitlín R. Kiernan's "The Drowned Geologist," Holmes is placed in Whitby at the same time as the stranding of the Demeter, the ship which carried Dracula to England.
Some have even been daring enough to suggest Holmes had a relationship during the books, or to pair him up with another detective. In the Mary Russell series, by Laurie R. King Holmes is married to Mary Russell, a woman thirty-nine years his junior, and makes her his partner in detection. Carole Nelson Douglas also wrote an eight-novel detective series starring Irene Adler as a detective that also features Holmes.
The article was already big and unwieldy and seems to have some duplicated material (two mentions of Name of the Rose for instance, now merged). I divided the film section into serious and comedy, however I've also added a list of categories near the start which might be used as a basis of subdivisions of each medium.
In order to bring some order to the random lists of works, I've now introduced three new top level divisions and regrouped the material as best I can into (a) new Sherlock Holmes stories, (b) stories in which he only has a cameo role, and (c) those which are merely inspired by Sherlock Holmes but don't feature him. Each of these sections is then divided into print, film, etc. I suppose it could equally be done the other way round: print, film, etc at the top level, each subdivided into type of story, as long as some kind of order is brought to the mass of examples.
One area where I had a bit of trouble was stories like Shirley Holmes - I put these under "inspired by Holmes", but since they treat Holmes as an historical figure (unlike, say, Name of the Rose), perhaps they should go under cameos, or even into a new fourth section. Samatarou 23:06, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
- I just completed some work on the Film sections of this page. I added: a link to the Rathbone Sherlock Holmes (1939 film series); I added Ritchie's Game of Shadows; I relocated The Mystery of the Leaping Fish, Sherlock, Jr., and The Return of the World's Greatest Detective to the Holmes-Inspired Characters Film section (they were previously in the Holmes Comedy Film section) as they do not actually feature the character of Sherlock Holmes, but someone who is either inspired by Holmes, or is under the delusion that they are Holmes; I combined two entries for The Return of the World's Greatest Detective (previously in both the Holmes Comedy Films and Holmes-Inspired TV section. As most TV movies were in their respective Film sections, and not TV, I made an effort to consistently note which Films were made for TV. Happy to help with corrections! --Morphovariant (talk) 18:44, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
I've removed a paragraph containing what appears to me to be rather fanciful speculation:
- Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban probably owes a debt to The Hound of the Baskervilles, as both feature an escaped convict (Sirius/Selden), and a supposed hound of ill omen, drawing inspiration from the legend of Black Shuck.
I don't have a problem with this if someone can find a reliable source showing that this is a "notable" (for want of a better word) opinion on the matter. Its inclusion here raw, expressed in vague terms such as "Recent viewers...have noticed similarities" is not verifiable. --Tony Sidaway 00:40, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
- Dexter, Colin (1989). 'A Case of Mis-Identity'. Published in Morse's Greatest Mystery and Other Stories. Pan Books, London. Pp. 133–164. ISBN 0-330-34025-5
- King, Laurie R. (1994–) Mary Russell Novels:
- The Beekeeper's Apprentice (1994) ISBN 0-312-10423-5
- A Monstrous Regiment of Women (1995) ISBN 0-312-13565-3
- A Letter of Mary (1997) ISBN 0-312-14670-1
- The Moor (1998) ISBN 0-312-16934-5
- O Jerusalem (1999) ISBN 0-553-11093-4
- Justice Hall (2002) ISBN 0-553-11113-2
- The Game (2004) ISBN 0-553-80194-5
- Locked Rooms (2005) ISBN 0-553-80197-X
- Jô Soares (1995) O Xangô de Baker Street released in English as A Samba for Sherlock.
- Sabol, Autumn. (2005). Elementary, My Dear. iUniverse. ISBN 0-595-15686-9
- Nancy Springer. (1948–) Enola Holmes Mysteries:
Why is there no discussion of radio dramas featuring Holmes? I do know that they weren't all adaptations of stories from the canon, but not enough more than that to write such a section myself. --Tbrittreid (talk) 22:17, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
A commercial author has repeatedly added a link to his publisher's web page (most recently here). The linked page notes that the work he is promoting is available for $25, but there is no other indication of notability. I suggest that the entry be reverted, once again. --Old Moonraker (talk) 15:58, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
No TV section?
I'm surprised the first section of this article doesn't make any mention of non-canonical Sherlock Holmes TV series. At the very least, there's the BBC's Sherlock, and the upcoming Elementary; but there must have been others as well. Or would they be classed as 'Holmes-inspired characters' instead? Robofish (talk) 10:50, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
José Luis Garci's Holmes & Watson. Madrid Days (2012)
In the interests of clarity
Would anybody seriously object if I just moved this article to the more obvious title, "Sherlock Holmes stories by other authors?" The Canon of Sherlock Holmes is simply every Sherlock Holmes story written by his creator, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. --TS 03:09, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
- I am for changing the name of the article, but it should be "Sherlock Holmes pastiches"; pastiche is the proper term used in the literature. (It's even explicitly cited in the pastiche article.) TuckerResearch (talk) 18:35, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
- This sounds better to me, especially compared to the awkward current name, "Non-canonical Sherlock Holmes works". --TS 21:01, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
- I've made a start on the link fixing. I'll complete it sooner rather than later. The redirects are all fixed. I read somewhere that you're not supposed to do those these days but I couldn't make any sense of it. --TS 23:31, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
- The move is complete. That was a damn fine cup of coffee! --TS 13:50, 30 June 2015 (UTC)