Talk:Nordic model

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Allegations that the Nordic model is a mix of capitalism and socialism[edit]

The claim that the Nordic model represents a form a "hybrid" between capitalism and socialism is false and usually only made by Americans and articles by those who are not well versed in comparative economic systems. The actual economic mechanisms are free-market capitalist - relatively free markets and high concentrations of private ownership (the only exception being Norway, where the state owns shares in publicly traded corporations), with no economic planning. The Nordic model is even more lassiez-faire than Continental European economies such as France, and Swedes don't even describe their model as being "socialist" (despite having been governed by a Social democratic party for decades). What can be said is the Nordic model achieves some of the outcomes socialists like to see (greater equality, etc.) using capitalist processes and judicious use of policy for income redistribution.

I have removed this material from the lead and placed it in a subsection called "foreign perspectives". -Battlecry 04:47, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation - Nordic model (prostitution law)[edit]

In a discussion in a feminist forum today, there was mention that this Wikipedia article does not provide a disambiguation to the now very common use of the term "Nordic Model" here in North America (and particularly Canada) to refer to the "Swedish Model" or "Nordic Model" of prostitution law. I'm wondering what the best solution is - perhaps linking to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden#Current_legal_status or perhaps even more accurately, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_law#Sweden.2C_Norway_and_Iceland in the disambiguation would be a solution? (As for references in NA to the Nordic Model in this context, they're very common... http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/prostitution-laws-should-follow-nordic-model-former-sex-trade-worker-says-1.2554978 for example, as well as http://www.straight.com/news/595431/ottawa-eyes-nordic-model-prostitution-legislation. I note there is not a specific article on the Nordic/Swedish model that I can find... - Reecesel (talk) 20:33, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Since the law is unique to Sweden, it is not a nordic model in any sense, so we should avoid spreading that misuse of the term unless you can prove it is a common misuse. Carewolf (talk) 13:07, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
IMO, it's an incredibly common 'misuse,' considering it seems to be the term of choice by nearly all media, feminists, and so on. Here's a sampling of examples. From mainstream media in Canada:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/prostitution-laws-should-follow-nordic-model-former-sex-trade-worker-says-1.2554978
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2014/02/20140221-074213.html
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/nordic-sex-trade-strategy-gaining-steam-251639621.html
http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/feminist-current/2014/02/eu-parliament-passes-resolution-favour-nordic-model
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/03/20/john-ivison-flawed-report-could-be-basis-for-tories-new-prostitution-law/
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/prostitution-laws-what-are-the-nordic-and-new-zealand-models-1.1603213
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorials/prostitution-should-it-be-legal-yes/article17173130/
http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/04/11/Nordic-Prostitution-Laws/ , etc.
Internationally, it's also very commonly used: e.g.:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/nordic-model-prostitution-england-wales-called-by-mp-gavin-shuker-report-1438676
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/support-for-nordic-model-on-prostitution-hailed-1-5914681
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/feb/26/meps-vote-criminalise-buying-sex-european-parliament
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/madam-is-not-for-changing-canberras-prostitution-laws-20140320-3567d.html, etc.
- Reecesel (talk) 09:39, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

General "Neutrality" Comments[edit]

  • I believe the overt problem with this article in terms of a public/mass education type read is that as currently written, a reader comes away with a very positive outlook on the Nordic Model not just as an economic organizing philosophy, but as a societal force.
    • Once can argue that it is in FACT a POSITIVE "economic organizing philosophy" though that demands a subjective opinion cast onto the reader, rather than the statistical facts, counterpoints, and contrasts.
    • On can also argue that NEGATIVE facts have been obscured in the article, and that the "philosophy/system" is in fact not well portrayed both as an 'on the ground economic reality' (I think we can agree that the Nordic model has not produced economic utopia in Scandinavia), or as a unique approach to state-sponsored economic management, a child of historical forces as much as fiat and cultural experience.
  • The POINT is that this issue is very politicized, especially in the United States, where active ideological disagreements lead to common and frequent references to the Nordic Model as being an ideal to be followed, while those who disagree (FULL disclosure: I am American, and prefer the Swiss economic model above all), do so on widely divergent planes with all manner of critique.
  • What I am proposing: The article intentional or not gives one the impression that the Nordic Model is the "solution" to the "problem" that is Economics. This isn't simply bias, it's completely an original and novel conclusion that befits a thesis or a book, not an information encyclopedia entry which presumes little to no advance knowledge, and hopefully presents the reader the opportunity to form a brief opinion pending further learning - I believe that is the main purpose of Wikipedia article entries; I may be wrong, that's how I use it.
  • Whether because of lack of reference, statistics, or even better coverage of the LONG academic study and (American) pop-culture obsession with this issue (which is rife with misinformation of all manner), I believe the article needs serious "attention from an expert" to specifically delineate how and why the Nordic Model exists (it's close with this), the consequences of the model for the societies it is used it (weak on this), the costs and benefits (article mentions one type of tax (income?) and even then very vaguely with a number, though the income tax system is graduated I believe), costs/problems aren't really mentioned.
  • I actually do NOT believe the article requires a "critique" section - Economic models, national or otherwise, should speak for themselves, and importantly, should note where conclusions are being extrapolated. (e.g. Does the Nordic Model produce low crime? This is a causation assumption (it has been studied, I don't know the current thinking), but this type of argument is tempting when one writes about economic structures. We must be cautious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Commissar Mo (talkcontribs) 02:54, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

History section is irrelevant[edit]

The history section as it currently stands is completely irrelevant to the subject of this article, listing the founding dates of social democratic and labor parties. The Nordic model is not a collection of social democratic parties (the model is not the brainchild of any specific political party), so I have removed the entire section. -Battlecry 03:38, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Acknowledging that Iceland's inclusion is controversial[edit]

I think the article needs to make a note of the fact that Iceland's inclusion is controversial among Icelandic historians and political scientists. The deleted paragraph cites a source that gives a decent account of how the Icelandic welfare system differs (historically and up to 2001) from its Nordic neighbors. Some even argue that Iceland is closer to the Anglo-Saxon model than the Nordic model. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 11:44, 19 January 2016 (UTC)